Neurosurgical Hours

[Medicale]

Hello, I'm a proactive fourteen-year-old looking to enter the neurosurgical field later on in life. I've been doing extensive research, but I still have not been able to locate an anwer to my question, which is as follows:

-Do the truculent hours of a neurosurgical residency continue into a neurosurgeon's later career (mid-fifties and older)?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[H_Caulfield]

Dear Proactive 14-year-old,

HaHAhahahahahahhahahahh. Hahahahahhaa. Ok, seriously; you can do this, but there are a few things you should address first. Take some time out from your "extensive research" to figure out how to finally get to second base with that girl whose locker is right next to yours. Then learn how to get rid of that pimply nastiness that you're probably only just starting to experience; accutane worked pretty well for me, but made my back ache and nose bleed like hell. Get your mom to drive you to your friends' houses and work on your prank calls and electric guitar solos (while you still can).

After that, do well on the SATs, and then college, and then the MCAT. Ask this question again in 10 years, and people will STILL tell you not to worry about your "fifties" yet.

 

[cooldreams]

man... 50's ?? thats some serious age-i-ness going on there. youre 14? ... are you worried youre going to die soon or something?

 

[naegleria brain]

hey, be nice to the kid...
medicale: there are some discussions on this already, but here are my two cents...

each year 150 people enter neurosurgical residencies in the entire country of 300+ million. each year only 150 new neurosurgeons are made. so when you're the only neurosurgeon in the area and a patient presents at 3am with a burst berry aneurysm, are you going to say "no, i'm not on tonight" and let them die if no other capable individual is available? that's a start to the thought process...

it is possible to limit your hours, but given the scarce numbers of neurosurgeons out there, and the fact that the vast majority do undertake "truculent hours", don't expect to be the exception. the people who go into neurosurgery generally go in with the expectation of working long hours throughout their life; if nice hours are what you want, though possible (albeit somewhat rare), you should consider a different profession

my brother is 14; he's awaiting harry potter book 7. i suggest you not worry about such things now; there's nothing you can do now to ensure a spot in neurosurgical residency. heck, i doubt there's a lot you can do now (are you a freshman in hs yet?) to even help out with a college application, much less medical school. such thoughts come to one as they live through life. don't force it, better to live and find out your own personality, and then see if you're a born match for neurosurgery. if not, there are still other great, interesting medical fields out there without the time commitment (rads, derm, ophtho, even ortho)

good luck

 

[cdql]

Hello, I'm a proactive fourteen-year-old looking to enter the neurosurgical field later on in life. I've been doing extensive research, but I still have not been able to locate an anwer to my question, which is as follows:

-Do the truculent hours of a neurosurgical residency continue into a neurosurgeon's later career (mid-fifties and older)?

You used truculent incorrectly.

 

[cooldreams]

You used truculent incorrectly.

its a 14 yr old.

 

[Wanderer4x]

You used truculent incorrectly.

I think for a fourteen year old, he used the word rather well. Is Truculent not an adjective for something that is difficult and strenuous?

 

[danielmd06]

My mom is an English teacher and I did two Neurosurgery rotations as an MSIV.

He used "truculent" correctly. It is an adjective meaning hostile, savage, or brutal.

Perfectly applicable to the hours Neurosurgeons work. Sheesh.

Relax bro. You have all the time in the world. Have fun in school and read lots literature. Yes, the hours remain difficult for Neurosurgeons long after residency...depending on where you practice.

 

[Medicale]

Well, thank you for the variety of different answers. I appreciate the... helpful feedback. I didn't expect such sarcastic answers from a number of you, but if that is how you feel, so be it. I was just inquiring about a detail that I wanted to know more about. On a lighter note, thanks for the advice, Danielmd06 and Naegleria Brain.

 

[HarveyCushing]

Is this thread a joke, or is this kid for real? I didn't even know about forums when I was 14, well maybe they weren't around?

 

[Medicale]

Yes, I am for real. I enjoy doing research, so I came here and registered.

 

[kenneth.c.liu]

i thought truculent meant something more like "hot-tempered."

as for an answer to the original question, your hours during your post-residency career are as long or as short as you want them to be. it depends on your job and where you're working. i know 50+ neurosurgeons working 100 hours a week and 50+ neurosurgeons working less than half time. it's whatever you want them to be.

 

[naegleria brain]

may i ask where you do research?

my brother thinks he would like doing it when i tell him my experiences. problem is, i don't know any place that'll take a 14 year-old high schooler.

don't need to give specifics, just want to know where i would even look for him

 

[soeagerun2or]

may i ask where you do research?

my brother thinks he would like doing it when i tell him my experiences. problem is, i don't know any place that'll take a 14 year-old high schooler.

don't need to give specifics, just want to know where i would even look for him

Lol he means research as in looking things up on the internet ala SDN and wikipedia.

 

[cdql]

may i ask where you do research?

my brother thinks he would like doing it when i tell him my experiences. problem is, i don't know any place that'll take a 14 year-old high schooler.

don't need to give specifics, just want to know where i would even look for him

show me a place that takes a 14 year old high schooler for serious work and I'll show you a research program that is days away from being shut down

 

[markneil]

kids are growing alot faster these days. 4 year olds have cell phones, xboxes and all that other crap while i still have my nintendo from '87..i thought i was the **** playing duck hunt. God knows what i would've "researched" when i was 14 if the internet was around (im now 26, MSI). to the op: don't give up on what you want to do, but also take time to enjoy everything else. also, go out once in a while and stay active and healthy so you can actually live till you're 50.

 

[ice_23]

kids are growing alot faster these days. 4 year olds have cell phones, xboxes and all that other crap while i still have my nintendo from '87..i thought i was the **** playing duck hunt. God knows what i would've "researched" when i was 14 if the internet was around (im now 26, MSI). to the op: don't give up on what you want to do, but also take time to enjoy everything else. also, go out once in a while and stay active and healthy so you can actually live till you're 50.

The internet was around when you were 14.



-Ice

 

[Medicale]

You know, in retrospect, I probably shouldn't of mentioned my age. Seriously, why does it matter whether I'm fourteen, or whether I'm thirty-seven? I was just asking a question, why does age matter? I would appreciate it if some of you could attempt to be just a bit less sarcastic and dejecting.

 

[latinfridley]

You know, in retrospect, I probably shouldn't of mentioned my age. Seriously, why does it matter whether I'm fourteen, or whether I'm thirty-seven? I was just asking a question, why does age matter? I would appreciate it if some of you could attempt to be just a bit less sarcastic and dejecting.

What grade are you in? Unless you're a super-genius in college right now, I'd say you have a ways to go before you have to deal with this kind of stuff. Its cool to think about, but if I were you I would ,at most, read a fun neuro book or two, like "gifted hands" or an Oliver Sacks book, or something like that. It is important to mature emotionally and gain some life experience before you begin medicine (IMHO). So, enjoy the lack of responsibility you have right now, take advantage of the free time you have by enjoying other aspects of life, and just push this career stuff in the back of your mind until college.

 

[watermen]

You know, in retrospect, I probably shouldn't of mentioned my age. Seriously, why does it matter whether I'm fourteen, or whether I'm thirty-seven? I was just asking a question, why does age matter? I would appreciate it if some of you could attempt to be just a bit less sarcastic and dejecting.

Just ignore those sarcastic comments. If you really love it, go for it. Age is not a factor.

From what I seen so far, most neurosurgeons decide their own time. You can work 100 hours per week if you want to ....you can work less than 50 hours per week...once you complete your residency...it is all up to the individual.

 

[Jackofknives]

Well, in your mid 50’s you are likely to have an established career so you would have a lot more bargaining power and you could choose to work however long you want. Though through my experience I have this impression that most of the people that chose neurosurgery like their job and are glad to work long hours.

You are doing “serious research” at age 14? Do you have any fundamental medical knowledge at all? Depends on what you do, at least you should know physiology, anatomy etc to do something serious, assisting research without basic knowledge is a waste of your time.

If you are confident about going to med school you should prolly start practicing tying knots, do sutures and other surgical skills which you can use for the rest of your life. Read gross anatomy on the side, too, because it’s very unlikely to become obsolete in the next 20 years.

Good luck

 

[Medicale]

I'm in Eighth Grade, Latinfridley. Jackofknifes, I have not done research in the typical sense of the word when used medically. What I mean is that I have done extensive career research, not clinical research. I do know a fair amount about anatomy and physiology for my age though, as I come from a medical background.

 

[Green Pirate]

I'm in Eighth Grade, Latinfridley. Jackofknifes, I have not done research in the typical sense of the word when used medically. What I mean is that I have done extensive career research, not clinical research. I do know a fair amount about anatomy and physiology for my age though, as I come from a medical background.

that's great, and while I admit that SDN doesn't take well to pre-college (let alone pre-high school) students, the sarcastic comments in this thread are somewhat true. The thing you have to remember about nsg is that the system selects you, not necessarily the other way around. Not all med students can say "hey I really like this so I'll do my residency in nsg!" It's a competitive residency so only those with outstanding resumes (particlarly high boards) will make it through. It's great to have a dream, but keep your mind open. And after ten years when you are in med school and you still have a desire to be a neurosurgeon, you can come back here for advice that will be much more relevant and useful.

 

[jpro]

Anyone that dare to use the word "truculent" should be taken seriously.

Honestly, at 14yo my biggest problem in my life was my virginity. Neurosurgacliwhat? Don't lock yourself into a career at such a young age. Keep your options open. Even if you still decide to go into medicine, keep your mind open up untill late 2nd or 3rd year in med school. Hey, you might just want to be the next Donald Trump or Wierd Al.

 

[driedcaribou]

You know, in retrospect, I probably shouldn't of mentioned my age. Seriously, why does it matter whether I'm fourteen, or whether I'm thirty-seven? I was just asking a question, why does age matter? I would appreciate it if some of you could attempt to be just a bit less sarcastic and dejecting.

Age actually does matter because your perspective on life changes as you grow older. It's no excuse for being rude to you though. Still, the sarcasm all bears truth.

Lifestyle is important but it's all in the context of your goals in life.

If you're basing your future career based on lifestyle at this moment in your life, you are really not in the right head space right now.

A 37 year old man or woman has a better idea of how busy life gets.

Until you pay your own bills, make your own meals, etc etc... your question is irrelevant. As someone said before, keep your mind open.

No one cares if you have a medical background or know a lot of anatomy or physiology for your age.

 

[psipsina]

Hi! First I want to say that its cool that you're interested in science and looking around trying to figure out what you might be able to do with that interest. I think what everyone is trying to get across to you is that while you can get some ideas of things that interest you now, you really can't make any serious comittments at your age so worrying about the nitty gritty of where you'll be when your 50 just isn't necessary. While I'm sure you are a smart kid you have no idea what you might excell in or what might spark your interest as you wander down your academic pathway, and you don't know how competitive you will end up being even if you do stick to the medical pathway. I'm a first year medstudent and even I have to stay openminded to different specialties at this point. I have a love for neurosurg but I don't yet know that I will be competitive and having had a slight glimpse of what an 80+ hr workweek might look like I'm not sure if thats what I want to do for the rest of my life. I'm still exploing options 12 years down the road from where you are right now, so you've got alot of time to find all your answers and do your research. The best thing that you can do right now is focus on the next step that you have to take in your academic career. You are about to enter highschool and need to rock that out so you can be competitive for college admission. Read some fun medical books like complications, or when the air hits your brain, or gifted hands, and use your aspirations to motivate you to focus on what you need to do now. You have so much time before you need to be worrying about where you'll be when your fifty, its great to have aspirations and dreams but you have to be careful not to ignore what you need to be doing now to get there in the end.

 

[Green Pirate]

Age actually does matter because your perspective on life changes as you grow older. It's no excuse for being rude to you though. Still, the sarcasm all bears truth.

Lifestyle is important but it's all in the context of your goals in life.

If you're basing your future career based on lifestyle at this moment in your life, you are really not in the right head space right now.

A 37 year old man or woman has a better idea of how busy life gets.

Until you pay your own bills, make your own meals, etc etc... your question is irrelevant. As someone said before, keep your mind open.

No one cares if you have a medical background or know a lot of anatomy or physiology for your age.

that's very true. It's amazing how much change in my personality I've seen since I was 14.

 

[GasAddict]

You should check out the book First Do No Harm: Reflections on Becoming a Neurosurgeon. I read it when I was about your age and it really helped me understand what it would be like to be a neurosurgeon.

 

[cooldreams]

The internet was around when you were 14.



-Ice

still in an infancy im afraid. the military and some universities were just beginning to allow others onto their network. oh, and, al gore was just beginning to allow others to use his internet... he invented it of course. just ask him.

 

[driedcaribou]

that's very true. It's amazing how much change in my personality I've seen since I was 14.

Heck, I don't even know who I am anymore.

psipsina has some great advice. Good luck with it all Medicale. And make sure you have a lot of fun along the way or nothing will be worth it.

 

[markneil]

The internet was around when you were 14.



-Ice

did you have broadband or wireless in 1994? face it, i can access the internet from anywhere i want nowadays and that wasn't always the case. in addition most of the information was not extensively catalogued.

 

[Medicale]

Well, I appreciate all of your helpful encouragement and advice! I will read the aforementioned books and attempt to keep my mind open! I am excited though, as my father has arranged a questionnaire with a neurosurgeon over Spring Break for me. I will try to come up with meaningful questions and see what comes of it, but thanks again!

 

[greymew]

Hey,

Sorry for some of the crappy replies to your serious question. If you want to have a dialogue with someone who will not patronize, give me an email. I'd be happy to tell you my experiences and offer any advice.

Take care and good luck.

[email protected]

 

[DwyaneWade]

Best you can do now (in order):

-get good grades. Yes I know everyone says it but make sure you are up near the top. AP/IB classes AND doing well on long exams are key.
-do well on the SAT. Take a bunch of practice tests.
-do some light research in what you are interested in
-enjoy the EC parts of your life now. Doesn't get much better than high school or college.
-Try to get scholarships for college and pick a place you will love and enjoy attending. If you are super motivated and very sure that you will be a doctor look for combined BS/MD programs.

Worry about the rest later. If you want to be a doctor (and you seem to based on your parents experience) you will be changing your mind probably 3-4 times int he future. And the hours of NS may not matter as much to you if you really in the end truly love what you do.

If you need any advice about high school, tests, college just shoot me a PM and I will try to help.

 

[ice_23]

did you have broadband or wireless in 1994? face it, i can access the internet from anywhere i want nowadays and that wasn't always the case. in addition most of the information was not extensively catalogued.

If they are 26, then 12 years ago is 1995. There was internet in 1995, and accessible to the average user via dial-up.

But it was a tongue-in-cheek answer anyway...

-Ice

 

[exgatr]

Right now you should be focusing on things that will help you for the rest of your life: Get a hobby (not researching jobs) and play a sport. Develop the other aspects of your personality to make yourself a better person (and more appealing to medical schools). Nobody will admit a person who only thinks about becoming a neurosurgeon--med schools want people with some character.

And I know it's bad to say this in a neurosurgery forum, but there are MANY MANY MANY better fields in medicine than neurosurgery. I have the feeling that your father is pushing you into the field for "prestige." I hope by the time you're in med school you'll be able to see past going into a specialty just because it's hard.

I'm a third year and I'm a slacker. I didn't want to work hard in med school to get good grades & step 1 scores so I coud work hard (and worry about not matching) to get into ortho/neurosurg/hand surgery so I could work hard for the rest of my life. I'm going into Neurology. It's interesting, laid back, and has great work hours--what else could you want out of a specialty.

No matter what you're going into in medicine you'll be making a TON of money; pick something you'll like doing for the next 40 years.

P.S. Never use a ten dollar word when a ten cent one will do.

 

[Ephesus]

its a 14 yr old.

Mensa - you must be schmart.

 

[Blake]

And I know it's bad to say this in a neurosurgery forum, but there are MANY MANY MANY better fields in medicine than neurosurgery.

Oh no you didn't.

 

[naegleria brain]

Nobody will admit a person who only thinks about becoming a neurosurgeon--med schools want people with some character.

uhh...partially true, about the character thing. problem is majority of budding neurosurgeons are the ones who think only about becoming one. and when you choose out of that pool, you get a reflective population of just that.

And I know it's bad to say this in a neurosurgery forum, but there are MANY MANY MANY better fields in medicine than neurosurgery.

weak.

i actually agree with what you say, but don't discourage the little guy's dream. just because his dream isn't marrying angelina jolie and becoming a pro-football player doesnt make him THAT abnormal; his visions are just a little different and his ambitions aren't in line with the normal kids his age

no reason to try to kill his dream. as long as he's not hurting himself or others, let kids dream as their innocence will be wrested away soon enough.

 

[TheThroat]

You know, in retrospect, I probably shouldn't of mentioned my age. Seriously, why does it matter whether I'm fourteen, or whether I'm thirty-seven? I was just asking a question, why does age matter? I would appreciate it if some of you could attempt to be just a bit less sarcastic and dejecting.

Agree with you on that one. Mentioning age if you are pre-med and esp pre-college usu = getting a number of sarcastic comments.

But in answer to your question:

NSG is a demanding field and most neurosurgeons get used to having pretty long work hours. At my residency, the nsg's worked longer then anyone else. After the R2 year, most were broken. By that I mean that they had a hard edge to them and smiled/joked/laughed a lot less than when I hung out with them as interns.