Neurotic Residency Research Question

[Emh_omega-323]

---

Members do not see this ad.

I know this question is neurotic, I know. But I'm not sure to what degree it is warranted. I'm an MS2 at a very good name brand USMD school. I decided not to do research in my first year, and have now realized I'm one of a small handful in my class to make that decision. I will be starting something shortly, but everyone says this will be hard to maintain at a significant level when clinicals start, which is January. I'm in California, and if possible would love to be at an academic residency in CA. Have I completely shot myself in the foot? And a follow up question, would bioethics publications help compensate for limited, but not non-existent, research?

I did come into med school with some research, but I am a very non-traditional older non-trad, so it is in International Relations and Philosophy (no pubs but 2 first author conference presentations). Frankly, I'm more interested in writing on the policy and philosophy dimensions of medicine than basic science or clinical research (hence the bioethics question).

Psychiatry drew me into medicine and I'm president of the Psychiatry Student Interest Group but the other specialties on my differential are EM & Neuro.

So, on a scale of 1-10 how neurotic am I being? Or should I actually be concerned? All this talk of how competitive psychiatry is now has me worried.

Lastly, I will be talking to advisors. Just getting a broader range of input.

 

[comp1]

8? You aren't going to residency to do research. That just isn't what they are paying you to do. If you can tone down the anxiety, you sound like you might be cool to talk to during an interview with those interests and that is a heck of lot more helpful than any research to your application. And yeah, please don't mess up your actually important and useful clerkships with attempting to do "research" in the middle of them. Focus on staying in CA with academic as a nice bonus. Ultimately your salary will end up the same (unless you stay in academia where it will be lower.)

 

[clausewitz2]

I know this question is neurotic, I know. But I'm not sure to what degree it is warranted. I'm an MS2 at a very good name brand USMD school. I decided not to do research in my first year, and have now realized I'm one of a small handful in my class to make that decision. I will be starting something shortly, but everyone says this will be hard to maintain at a significant level when clinicals start, which is January. I'm in California, and if possible would love to be at an academic residency in CA. Have I completely shot myself in the foot? And a follow up question, would bioethics publications help compensate for limited, but not non-existent, research?

I did come into med school with some research, but I am a very non-traditional older non-trad, so it is in International Relations and Philosophy (no pubs but 2 first author conference presentations). Frankly, I'm more interested in writing on the policy and philosophy dimensions of medicine than basic science or clinical research (hence the bioethics question).

Psychiatry drew me into medicine and I'm president of the Psychiatry Student Interest Group but the other specialties on my differential are EM & Neuro.

So, on a scale of 1-10 how neurotic am I being? Or should I actually be concerned? All this talk of how competitive psychiatry is now has me worried.

Lastly, I will be talking to advisors. Just getting a broader range of input.

I agree that research is not the thing to focus on above all else at the moment. However, given your background, I would suggest seeing if your medical school has access to the Journal of Philosophy, Psychiatry and Psychology and consider going to an AAPP meeting if it'll fit your schedule. Philosophy of psychiatry is a subfield that is still pretty open to new entrants and there is lots and lots of interesting work to be done. If you don't already read Psychiatry at the Margins, I'd recommend that as well.

 

[Chimed]

I agree that research is not the thing to focus on above all else at the moment. However, given your background, I would suggest seeing if your medical school has access to the Journal of Philosophy, Psychiatry and Psychology and consider going to an AAPP meeting if it'll fit your schedule. Philosophy of psychiatry is a subfield that is still pretty open to new entrants and there is lots and lots of interesting work to be done. If you don't already read Psychiatry at the Margins, I'd recommend that as well.

Great advice 👆

I think that that majority of residencies just want to know that you're serious about psychiatry and you're going to be a solid resident. I did one research project in medical school, but nothing major. But I was also the president of the psychiatry interest group and also participated in helping in a clinical trial, but it was minimal work. My USMLE scores were average and the only rotation I got honors in was psychiatry. I had very good LOR. I was also at a relatively mid-tier medical school. I was also an older/non-traditional medical student. With that otherwise average background that showed a lot of interest in psychiatry, I got interviews at most of the major well-known programs and matched into my first choice. Grant it, that was back in 2007 (wow, I'm getting old!), but I'm guessing things aren't that different now.

 

[FlowRate]

Of your differential specialties, all of them care a lot more about your (clinical) grades, test scores, !!interview performance!!, SLOR (EM), and any audition rotations. Neuro probably cares the most about research, especially at the big name academic centers, which is ironic since those centers tend to work their residents so hard that they have trouble getting any research done during residency.

There are certainly some fields where playing the research game is important, even if you have almost no interest in research, but the specialties you listed are not those. I think all of those specialties would be way more interested in a budding thought leader in policy than that you had your name on a paper or two for doing some data analysis for some random PI for a low impact publication.

So I say, if you are genuinely interested in policy, lean in on that rather than trying to satisfy some sort of translational/clinical research check box.

 

[Emh_omega-323]

I agree that research is not the thing to focus on above all else at the moment. However, given your background, I would suggest seeing if your medical school has access to the Journal of Philosophy, Psychiatry and Psychology and consider going to an AAPP meeting if it'll fit your schedule. Philosophy of psychiatry is a subfield that is still pretty open to new entrants and there is lots and lots of interesting work to be done. If you don't already read Psychiatry at the Margins, I'd recommend that as well.

This is excellent advice thank you I will look into this! Sounds very much like my kind of thing.

 

[Emh_omega-323]

Thank you all for the fabulous and well thought out advice! I'm normally pretty chill but sometimes the gunner vibes I'm surrounded by get to me.

My background before medicine is very fun and unique (alongside the academic stuff, I did various wilderness & travel jobs while exploring the world and also worked as a human rights lobbyist). This tends to get me in doors.

I do really want to lean in to the policy and philosophy sides--might as well be judged for my real passions. I'll do this one clinical project this semester and will build future experiences on those interests.

 

[Chimed]

Thank you all for the fabulous and well thought out advice! I'm normally pretty chill but sometimes the gunner vibes I'm surrounded by get to me.

My background before medicine is very fun and unique (alongside the academic stuff, I did various wilderness & travel jobs while exploring the world and also worked as a human rights lobbyist). This tends to get me in doors.

I do really want to lean in to the policy and philosophy sides--might as well be judged for my real passions. I'll do this one clinical project this semester and will build future experiences on those interests.

You're prior background combined with doing some type of clinical paper or project you're interested in will be very appealing to a psychiatry program. Interviewing well is also very important. As someone who has also interviewed potential residents, we just want to make sure you're not weird, going to take the residency seriously, and that psychiatry is not a backup plan for something like derm. Everything else is a bonus. There's nothing worse then getting a resident who is not responsible and has to be constantly monitored.

 

[FlowRate]

that psychiatry is not a backup plan for something like derm

Although a bit off topic, I still dislike the stigma of dual applying that's so prevalent in psychiatry programs. I think it reflects psychiatrists' ego vulnerability about being in a less "prestigious" specialty. There's nothing wrong with being interested in multiple specialties or with being aware that you're a long shot for the one you'd most prefer. It's a sloppy heuristic for assuming someone doesn't have "passion" for psychiatry. Usually the derm dual-appliers have very strong applications and I'm sure they'd be solid residents, assuming they're also genuinely interested in psych and come across that way in the interview.

 

[comp1]

I definitely remember a derm dual applier when I was in residency who ended up matching in psych and then transferring out during residency. It throws the schedule into chaos and is quite bad for the overall program and comradery.

 

[Chimed]

Although a bit off topic, I still dislike the stigma of dual applying that's so prevalent in psychiatry programs. I think it reflects psychiatrists' ego vulnerability about being in a less "prestigious" specialty. There's nothing wrong with being interested in multiple specialties or with being aware that you're a long shot for the one you'd most prefer. It's a sloppy heuristic for assuming someone doesn't have "passion" for psychiatry. Usually the derm dual-appliers have very strong applications and I'm sure they'd be solid residents, assuming they're also genuinely interested in psych and come across that way in the interview.

Sure, of course both can be true at times. But, maybe it's just my experience, medical students who apply to difficult to match specialties will sometimes have a back up plan if they don't think they're a strong enough applicant. It's not that they don't like psychiatry, but it's not their preference. I don't think that's "sloppy heuristic", just the reality.

 

[FlowRate]

Sure, of course both can be true at times. But, maybe it's just my experience, medical students who apply to difficult to match specialties will sometimes have a back up plan if they don't think they're a strong enough applicant. It's not that they don't like psychiatry, but it's not their preference. I don't think that's "sloppy heuristic", just the reality.

The sloppy heuristic is assuming they'll be bad residents/leave the program/ranking them lower simply because they're dual applicants. You said yourself that you and your program want to make sure it's not someone's backup plan.

Of course, there probably is a kernel of truth that they're statistically more likely to leave, as pointed out by comp1's anecdote.

 

[FatherPsychiatry]

I've been out of residency for 5+ years now so I'm not up on the latest trends, but wow:

'Even the least competitive specialties continue to see an increase in average research items from year to year, with family medicine moving from 3.3 in 2020 to 4.2 in 2024, pediatrics from 4.9 to 6.9, and psychiatry from 5.6 to 7.5.'
(In 2025, How Many Publications for Residency? (By Specialty) | Med School Insiders)

Such BS, just like 99.9% of med student research 😆 - I know because I played the game too but all my 'research' was from before med school, and way below the above numbers. I can see why everyone is or thinks they're ADHD these days - I think I'd need a little hit of meth to engage in this performative nonsense.

Sorry OP. Maybe see if your school's psychiatry program director, someone on their selection committee, or maybe even the clerkship director will meet with you to discuss what the school is really looking for, how they really look at research etc. Pure numbers don't always tell the whole story.

 

[FlowRate]

I've been out of residency for 5+ years now so I'm not up on the latest trends, but wow:

'Even the least competitive specialties continue to see an increase in average research items from year to year, with family medicine moving from 3.3 in 2020 to 4.2 in 2024, pediatrics from 4.9 to 6.9, and psychiatry from 5.6 to 7.5.'
(In 2025, How Many Publications for Residency? (By Specialty) | Med School Insiders)

Such BS, just like 99.9% of med student research 😆 - I know because I played the game too but all my 'research' was from before med school, and way below the above numbers. I can see why everyone is or thinks they're ADHD these days - I think I'd need a little hit of meth to engage in this performative nonsense.

Sorry OP. Maybe see if your school's psychiatry program director, someone on their selection committee, or maybe even the clerkship director will meet with you to discuss what the school is really looking for, how they really look at research etc. Pure numbers don't always tell the whole story.

A lot of those numbers really are bs poster pubs and such. I bet the numbers would look very different if confined to meaningful journal articles.

 

[docksan]

I know this question is neurotic, I know. But I'm not sure to what degree it is warranted. I'm an MS2 at a very good name brand USMD school. I decided not to do research in my first year, and have now realized I'm one of a small handful in my class to make that decision. I will be starting something shortly, but everyone says this will be hard to maintain at a significant level when clinicals start, which is January. I'm in California, and if possible would love to be at an academic residency in CA. Have I completely shot myself in the foot? And a follow up question, would bioethics publications help compensate for limited, but not non-existent, research?

I did come into med school with some research, but I am a very non-traditional older non-trad, so it is in International Relations and Philosophy (no pubs but 2 first author conference presentations). Frankly, I'm more interested in writing on the policy and philosophy dimensions of medicine than basic science or clinical research (hence the bioethics question).

Psychiatry drew me into medicine and I'm president of the Psychiatry Student Interest Group but the other specialties on my differential are EM & Neuro.

So, on a scale of 1-10 how neurotic am I being? Or should I actually be concerned? All this talk of how competitive psychiatry is now has me worried.

Lastly, I will be talking to advisors. Just getting a broader range of input.

You don't need research to get into psychiatry unless you're gunning for Ivy League.

 

[comp1]

Fortunately the OP is aiming for the much better weather of CA, but even with the Ivy League, I think they'd be fine.

 

[FatherPsychiatry]

A lot of those numbers really are bs poster pubs and such. I bet the numbers would look very different if confined to meaningful journal articles.

Agreed. I just disagree with the posters above who said OP is being very "hysteric" about needing more research for achieving his goal of "academic residency in CA", which is more competitive than most other residencies. I don't think they're being hysteric at all - IMO the game is making everyone go nuts. I'd say that's especially true for OP who sounds like they did some meaningful work prior to med school, and is now up against the go-getters who have been navigating the game successfully so far and OP will be up against them for those coveted academic CA spots.

I looked up the numbers for when I matched (2016) -
Mean number of research experiences 2.8
Mean number of abstracts, presentations, and publications 4.8

Now 2024:
Mean number of research experiences 3.0
Mean number of abstracts, presentations, and publications 7.5

And I imagine the kids matching into these pristine Academic CA spots are probably on the higher end of that.

Lot of subjectivity involved but still.

 

[docksan]

Unless your research is in psychiatry I don't think most places will care how many publications your name is on.