NEVER Choose a European medical school over an American one!!!!!!!!

[shreypete]

They're just horrible and brutal. I made a big mistake by becoming over-ambitious and joining medical school right after one year of undergrad. The system here is so subjective (we have oral final exams, where we pick three cards once we enter the exam room and the answer them; but the prof. asks tons of unrelated questions and if he/she's in a good mood and like you, then you're in luck; if not, you're screwed).

I can believe my histology professor of all is subjective. I missed 4 classes (due to personal medical problems) and she says I can't take the final credit test anymore (which is the pre-requisite for the final oral exam). I told her that I had serious medical problems and she says "but that doesn't help our department or concern us in any way. You're duty as a student is to attend all the seminars."

Then I went and spoke to the vice-dean and it was pretty much pointless as he said "this case is out of my hands as it was to be dealt with that specific department (the head of the department specifically)." So I waited for hours for him and when I finally got a hold of him, he told me that he understands my problem but "there are certain regulations of this university that we (meaning our staff) follow and I trust them with those rules".......my point is that what if you're staff are so sadistic that they want to hold back the students from even getting a chance to take the credit tests? (obviously by asking that, I will have officially been kicked out of the university). When I went back to my prof., she says I'll speak to my boss (the HOD) and then tell you what's our decision (this is never true as she always makes up her own rules)....the biggest problem is that one can't even question the system...as everyone works together and so they end up supporting each other....this is pure HELL!!!!!!!!!! It seems as though I have to repeat the entire year again just for one subject!!!!!!!

Moral: PLEASE DON'T EVEN CONSIDER EUROPEAN MEDICAL SCHOOLS FOR AN OPTION!!!!!!!!

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[Pinkertinkle]

I doubt very many people are going to european schools unless they have to.

 

[njbmd]

Pre-med issue and now moved to preallo. Allopathic medical students have already selected their schools and are not likely interested in choosing an European medical school.

 

[bcat85]

They're just horrible and brutal. I made a big mistake by becoming over-ambitious and joining medical school right after one year of undergrad. The system here is so subjective (we have oral final exams, where we pick three cards once we enter the exam room and the answer them; but the prof. asks tons of unrelated questions and if he/she's in a good mood and like you, then you're in luck; if not, you're screwed).

I can believe my histology professor of all is subjective. I missed 4 classes (due to personal medical problems) and she says I can't take the final credit test anymore (which is the pre-requisite for the final oral exam). I told her that I had serious medical problems and she says "but that doesn't help our department or concern us in any way. You're duty as a student is to attend all the seminars."

Then I went and spoke to the vice-dean and it was pretty much pointless as he said "this case is out of my hands as it was to be dealt with that specific department (the head of the department specifically)." So I waited for hours for him and when I finally got a hold of him, he told me that he understands my problem but "there are certain regulations of this university that we (meaning our staff) follow and I trust them with those rules".......my point is that what if you're staff are so sadistic that they want to hold back the students from even getting a chance to take the credit tests? (obviously by asking that, I will have officially been kicked out of the university). When I went back to my prof., she says I'll speak to my boss (the HOD) and then tell you what's our decision (this is never true as she always makes up her own rules)....the biggest problem is that one can't even question the system...as everyone works together and so they end up supporting each other....this is pure HELL!!!!!!!!!! It seems as though I have to repeat the entire year again just for one subject!!!!!!!

Moral: PLEASE DON'T EVEN CONSIDER EUROPEAN MEDICAL SCHOOLS FOR AN OPTION!!!!!!!!

I think that's probably your problem.. maybe you didn't get adjusted to college before med. school?

 

[Excelsius]

...or a Caribbean, for that matter: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=525293.

 

[kcmphk]

They're just horrible and brutal. I made a big mistake by becoming over-ambitious and joining medical school right after one year of undergrad. The system here is so subjective (we have oral final exams, where we pick three cards once we enter the exam room and the answer them; but the prof. asks tons of unrelated questions and if he/she's in a good mood and like you, then you're in luck; if not, you're screwed).

I can believe my histology professor of all is subjective. I missed 4 classes (due to personal medical problems) and she says I can't take the final credit test anymore (which is the pre-requisite for the final oral exam). I told her that I had serious medical problems and she says "but that doesn't help our department or concern us in any way. You're duty as a student is to attend all the seminars."

Then I went and spoke to the vice-dean and it was pretty much pointless as he said "this case is out of my hands as it was to be dealt with that specific department (the head of the department specifically)." So I waited for hours for him and when I finally got a hold of him, he told me that he understands my problem but "there are certain regulations of this university that we (meaning our staff) follow and I trust them with those rules".......my point is that what if you're staff are so sadistic that they want to hold back the students from even getting a chance to take the credit tests? (obviously by asking that, I will have officially been kicked out of the university). When I went back to my prof., she says I'll speak to my boss (the HOD) and then tell you what's our decision (this is never true as she always makes up her own rules)....the biggest problem is that one can't even question the system...as everyone works together and so they end up supporting each other....this is pure HELL!!!!!!!!!! It seems as though I have to repeat the entire year again just for one subject!!!!!!!

Moral: PLEASE DON'T EVEN CONSIDER EUROPEAN MEDICAL SCHOOLS FOR AN OPTION!!!!!!!!

What school are you going to?

 

[notdeadyet]

What school are you going to?

It doesn't matter. The fact that they had a bad experience at that particular medical school is reason enough to write off the medical education systems of 45 countries.

 

[Brown8472]

It doesn't matter. The fact that they had a bad experience at that particular medical school is reason enough to write off the medical education systems of 45 countries.

That's right. Preach the word!!

 

[squirrelking]

seriously, what use is this? I am sure there are some schools in Europe that do not meet US standards. Some I know exceed them. Oxford, Cambridge?? DON'T GO THERE!! THEY ARE HORRIBLE! I know too that Germany has some excellent schools, the Charite in Berlin, for one, is amazing. Plus you can go through the process nearly without debt. Generalizations don't really help much...

 

[shreypete]

I agree that Generalizations don't help much but unfortunately some of the best medical schools in Europe (those in Germany like Heidelberg, Charite) are also very subjective in manner. Are you aware of the system? I actually have a sister studying in Heidelberg, which is the Harvard of Germany and she always complains to me about how subjective the system is (as opposed to most of the medical schools in the US).

Hey bcat85, I did get adjusted well; just not in Histology mainly because of the prof. I am doing quite well in all my other classes (including anatomy and medical genetics) and as far as histology is concerned, I do know my stuff but due to my absences, I don't have an opportunity to even be tested by the professor.

 

[shreypete]

Hey notdeadyet, I didn't imply to write of the schools in the 45 other countries in Europe (and btw there are 48 countries in Europe). Perhaps I should have used a better choice of words. I'm just cautioning the prospective students interested in applying to European medical schools as the subjectivity here surpasses that of the American medical schools (in fact the US medical schools are not that subjective at all).

And if you're not aware of the European medical system, most of the system is homogeneous throughout the EU (not entire Europe) and so the education system is very similar in many ways in order to allow students to transfer from one university to another. So the subjects are essentially the same in one way; perhaps with a different orientation and different types of professors. I will specifically restrict this subjectivity-problem to the Central European schools (ie. those in Poland, Czech Republic, and Hungary)

 

[notdeadyet]

I am sure there are some schools in Europe that do not meet US standards. Some I know exceed them. Oxford, Cambridge?? DON'T GO THERE!! THEY ARE HORRIBLE!

Actually, there are no European schools that will be as useful for becoming a practicing US physician as the lowest ranked US med school. Any European (or Asian or Australian) school is going to be a sizable step down in terms of making you competitive for residency.

Your point was probably that there are great med schools in Europe, and there most certainly are. But none of them are all that great for Americans.

I'm not one of those chest beaters, but with the exception of Canadian med schools, you won't find med schools internationally that will help you with an American medical career as much as American medical schools.

 

[notdeadyet]

I'm just cautioning the prospective students interested in applying to European medical schools as the subjectivity here surpasses that of the American medical schools (in fact the US medical schools are not that subjective at all).

The subjectivity is not the reason I'd avoid Europe (and by the way, third and fourth year in US medical education is subjective-ville, so you ain't missing much).

I'd avoid Europe because applying when applying to US residencies, you're tiered after US Allopathic and US Osteopathic graduates. You need to absolutely kill on the Step 1 to have a shot at competitive residencies. And since most European schools are training their own doctors for their own medical system, they are not catering their four years of education to pass the boards like US schools are.

 

[imagined space]

In my school 50% of last block's grade in second year is determined by an oral presentation on a topic you only discover the day before. I think this is fair tho, because 3rd and 4th year grades/evals are subjective-ville (as already mentioned). So you do need get used to impressing people with oral presentations and thinking on your feet.

 

[Excelsius]

Everyone knows that European education system is much more challenging. I finshed a year of physics in 8th grade there but wasn't taught physics he until college - and still a watered down version. I don't know if this is true for med schools as well.

I do remember that pop quizzes and pop tests. You never knew what was going to be on the test. It somehow seemed stupid to tell the student what topics to prepare for when you want him to know everything in the book. Maybe this is why most graduate students are from overseas. One problem though is that some overseas schools do have some sort of corruption in the education system.

 

[Cegar]

Everyone knows that European education system is much more challenging. I finshed a year of physics in 8th grade there but wasn't taught physics he until college - and still a watered down version. I don't know if this is true for med schools as well.

I do remember that pop quizzes and pop tests. You never knew what was going to be on the test. It somehow seemed stupid to tell the student what topics to prepare for when you want him to know everything in the book. Maybe this is why most graduate students are from overseas. One problem though is that some overseas schools do have some sort of corruption in the education system.

You must have taken a pretty piss-poor physics class.

 

[Excelsius]

You must have taken a pretty piss-poor physics class.

The first one, yes (non-calculus based). Took the same class as all of you do with the same crappy book. Of course, after that I took the calculus based physics for two years and that was a different deal. My point is this: the education in here is more watered down. Most high school students in EU are required to take physics in their 8th grade. In here it is an elective! You can go for 12 grades and still know nothing about physics. Same is true for other subjects. The system also puts more value in points (GPA) than what one learns. It is even true in this forum. Many are so caught up in activites just to impress med schools that they forget about rudimentary self-edification: philosophy, psychology, classical literature, and even alternative medical options. That's what well-roundedness means.

 

[Cegar]

The first one, yes (non-calculus based). Took the same class as all of you do with the same crappy book. Of course, after that I took the calculus based physics for two years and that was a different deal. My point is this: the education in here is more watered down. Most high school students in EU are required to take physics in their 8th grade. In here it is an elective! You can go for 12 grades and still know nothing about physics. Same is true for other subjects. The system also puts more value in points (GPA) than what one learns. It is even true in this forum. Many are so caught up in activites just to impress med schools that they forget about rudimentary self-edification: philosophy, psychology, classical literature, and even alternative medical options. That's what well-roundedness means.

Your brutally misinformed generalizations do not paint accurate pictures of the educational systems of the EU or USA.

But that's okay. You're well-rounded.

 

[Excelsius]

More like an observation than a generalization. If you want to claim that it is limited only to the cities in EU and USA where I have lived, you can, but I am not the only one who has noticed the difference.

 

[Ginzo]

More like an observation than a generalization. If you want to claim that it is limited only to the cities in EU and USA where I have lived, you can, but I am not the only one who has noticed the difference.

A lot of it depends on the particular school in which you land. I spent a few years at a high school that offered harder classes than most colleges. And the US has a college or two that are so hard they had to make the freshman year pass/fail to cut down on the number of students jumping out of windows (MIT).

But yeah, the public school system in my particular city is so horrible that it only has about a 50% high school graduation rate. Granted this statistic is aided by the prevalence of private schools and people moving to the suburbs where the public schools aren't a complete mess.

 

[8744]

More like an observation than a generalization. If you want to claim that it is limited only to the cities in EU and USA where I have lived, you can, but I am not the only one who has noticed the difference.

I understand that in many European countries, students are put into two basic tracks, those heading for university and those who are either not or heading for the skilled trades and that high school is over for the latter at 10th grade. If you are on the former track you probably have to study a lot harder than the typical American high school student to get a spot in a university. There are plenty of colleges and universities in the United States and at many, all you need is a tution check and a pulse to get accepted.

Many years ago when I lived in Greece all of my friends not only went to school during the day but also attended "night school" for particular subjects to improve their chances of doing well on the national exams that determined your placement not only in a university but also in medical schools and law schools. I went to an American school (American Community Schools of Athens, Greg Kinear the actor was in my class by the way) so I didn't have to worry about this but I did take physics in eighth grade and had two years of calculus before I graduated.

The larger point is that while American public education generally blows, many students, via their parents, self-select for honors and advanced courses.

 

[barto123]

Everyone knows that European education system is much more challenging. I finshed a year of physics in 8th grade there but wasn't taught physics he until college - and still a watered down version. I don't know if this is true for med schools as well.

I do remember that pop quizzes and pop tests. You never knew what was going to be on the test. It somehow seemed stupid to tell the student what topics to prepare for when you want him to know everything in the book. Maybe this is why most graduate students are from overseas. One problem though is that some overseas schools do have some sort of corruption in the education system.

everyone knows? you've betrayed your superior euro education by making the egregious error of starting with an all encompassing qualifier. fine job making sweeping generalizations of the entire education systems of both the US and europe. your personal experience with physics obviously dictates the curriculum of all US high schools across the board. and everyone knows of course that the education system of germany, france, spain, britain, and poland can all be lumped together. try thinking just a little before you make vast claims or try being i dont know just a tad more specific so you don't end up insulting the entire lot of graduates of american schools, which by the way make up probably 99% of this forum. lets think for a second, the US has 300+ mil people and 50 states plus PR, don't you think that education methods and standards would vary slightly from location to location?

 

[Excelsius]

Hey, I am a graduate of US high school as well. How the hell do you think I make a comparison? As Panda mentioned correctly, US system is great, but it relies on the students to choose to use it. Are you going to tell me that more than half of the students choose to challenge themselves with AP courses or physics? It is not mandatory here, and that's what I am talking about. In EU you have to take the classes and end up being more well rounded. In USA it is a choice, but if you do choose that path, you will likely have many more resources than some countries in EU.

 

[CK0112]

I was a student in Germany (Röntgen Gymnasium), and I can understand why some people, like Excelsius, believe the European system to be more challenging. In Germany, students were forced to become very independent at an early age. Since so much of your later education is determined early on (students are split into the Gymnasium (continuing on to the University level) or Hauptschule (going on to trade school or full-time work) level after the 4th grade), there's also a lot more pressure to succeed. I also went to high school in the U.S, and in the U.S., students have so many chances to make up for past academic mistakes, and it's easier for students in the U.S. to get to the University level.