New Autism Data

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Of course it doesn't But it eliminates the lies by McCarthy and Wakefield, despite your apparent desperate need to have them heard on their lies. You still push dogma over actual, scientifically-identified avenues of concern.

I doubt you know what Wakefield's stand even is, but anyway...

MMR and thimerosal have been well researched. (I already said that.)

For Autism? Despite that data having been irrevocably been established? You not LIKING the outcome of scientific research doesn't mean that the Science is wrong. It merely means that you don't WANT your personal BELIEF to be wrong.

MMR and thimerosal have been well researched (that sounds familiar). That's the data you are talking about. There is however, according to some, a paucity of data looking at other aspects of the vaccine schedule. If these data do indeed exist, the gov't and medicine have done a poor job of getting that message out and as such parents still have concerns.

And, going back aways in this discussion, we've already established that vaccines alone cannot account for the escalation in autism rates. So don't misrepresent my position. (And don't call me a Creationist, which I just know is coming next.)

And for the record, my 1 year old just got 2 shots today.

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We're talking about mode of delivery, not live vs. dead.
That is a starkly dishonest claim you spew here. Claiming that [dirt] (corrected) somehow has any resemblance to a vaccine is utter crap. You are now trying to excuse your dishonest and sophist claim. It is beginning to be pathetic.
 
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That is a starkly dishonest claim you spew here. Claiming that vaccine somehow has any resemblance to a vaccine is utter crap. You are now trying to excuse your dishonest and sophist claim. It is beginning to be pathetic.

Even for you (who often makes no sense), this makes no sense.
 
Well, it's not exactly my call for vaccine safety studies. But, yes, I'm sure there must have been some initial safety study before these shots were introduced. Those who claim to have reviewed the data (which isn't me) state, however, that the safety data is too thin, particularly for some shots (I think Wakefield says in the interview I posted a few weeks ago that the HepB shot has little or no safety data). On the antigen exposure issue, I've heard Dr. Offit say that kids could handle a crazy-high number of vaccines at one shot and still be fine. I do think, however, that there is quite a difference between your child touching a dirty floor and your child receiving injections directly into his body.

Watch the show; it's a pretty good summary of where things stand right now and will help prepare you for when parents begin to ask about these things.

I watched the show. It was well done. I don't know how you got from it that the people who reviewed the literature think the safety data is too thin. Every physician or scientist in the show basically stated that vaccines are extremely safe and effective. The only people calling for more research into safety were Jenny McCarthy and several other kooks. Wakefield thinks there isn't enough safety data? Well, I'm sorry, but I don't care. He has plenty of non-scientific reasons to try to discredit vaccine safety including preserving what's left of his own reputation and significant financial incentives. I would question Wakefield's conclusions if he were out there promoting smoking cessation. His reputation is that poor.

I know the argument of the day is the number of antigens theory. You are right that exposure through the gut, mucosa, and skin are different than IM injections. However the body is still very capable of responding to injected antigens. We are naturally exposed to huge loads of internal antigens with any kind of wound, particularly puncture wounds, and the body handles it just fine. What I'm saying is, you're right that we can't prove that injected isn't somehow more injurious than other forms of antigen exposure, but there isn't a good biologic reason why we should think it is.

What's damning to the number of antigens hypothesis is the fact that the number of antigens we expose our children to has plummeted over the last 50 years, even as the number of shots has increased. One smallpox vaccine in 1900 contained more unique antigens than all of the currently recommended vaccines put together. (see: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content-nw/full/109/1/124/T2). If we are exposing our children to less and less antigen, why are there more and more "vaccine reactions" being reported.

The whole article from which that table is taken is worth reading. It provides a science-based explanation of why neither the vaccine schedule nor the number of vaccines given at one time should concern us. Here it is: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/109/1/124.
 
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Even for you (who often makes no sense), this makes no sense.

I usually try and keep any Lounge/SP stuff out of the real forums, but in areas where he is very passionate (outside of psych, where I'll admit he's pretty good) its best just to ignore him.
 
I watched the show. It was well done. I don't know how you got from it that the people who reviewed the literature think the safety data is too thin. Every physician or scientist in the show basically stated that vaccines are extremely safe and effective. The only people calling for more research into safety were Jenny McCarthy and several other kooks. Wakefield thinks there isn't enough safety data? Well, I'm sorry, but I don't care. He has plenty of non-scientific reasons to try to discredit vaccine safety including preserving what's left of his own reputation and significant financial incentives. I would question Wakefield's conclusions if he were out there promoting smoking cessation. His reputation is that poor.

I was unclear. The physicians on the show all said vaccines are safe and effective. But those on the other side of the issue who have also reviewed the available data disagree to some degree with the completeness of the safety data. Most practicing physicians, and probably most of those in academia, will never read all of these studies and therefore aren't in a good position to argue for or against.

Regarding financial incentives, I think it could be argued that Dr. Offit is perhaps the most financially incentivized of anyone when it comes to vaccines!

I know the argument of the day is the number of antigens theory. You are right that exposure through the gut, mucosa, and skin are different than IM injections. However the body is still very capable of responding to injected antigens. We are naturally exposed to huge loads of internal antigens with any kind of wound, particularly puncture wounds, and the body handles it just fine. What I'm saying is, you're right that we can't prove that injected isn't somehow more injurious than other forms of antigen exposure, but there isn't a good biologic reason why we should think it is.

No doubt our immune system is an amazing thing. But there are indeed adverse effects from vaccines, not necessarily autism, and not necessarily permanent, but vaccines do tax the system sometimes a bit too much. There is a difference between casual exposure and vaccination exposure.

What's damning to the number of antigens hypothesis is the fact that the number of antigens we expose our children to has plummeted over the last 50 years, even as the number of shots has increased. One smallpox vaccine in 1900 contained more unique antigens than all of the currently recommended vaccines put together. (see: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content-nw/full/109/1/124/T2). If we are exposing our children to less and less antigen, why are there more and more "vaccine reactions" being reported.

The whole article from which that table is taken is worth reading. It provides a science-based explanation of why neither the vaccine schedule nor the number of vaccines given at one time should concern us. Here it is: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/109/1/124.

(A few thoughts on this later...)
 
I usually try and keep any Lounge/SP stuff out of the real forums, but in areas where he is very passionate (outside of psych, where I'll admit he's pretty good) its best just to ignore him.
Why are you trolling here?
 
90 minute interview with Dr. Andrew Wakefield:
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/04/10/wakefield-interview.aspx

Most of you will likely not listen to this interview (it's in ten 9-minute segments). But I found it interesting so I've linked to it. At the very least, the guy is well trained and extensively published. And he is clearly not anti-vaccine but pro vaccine safety.

Dr. Wakefield states in the interview that he has challenged Dr. Paul Offit to a public debate anytime, anywhere. That would be interesting to see.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/37312715#37312715

Wakefield on the today show this morning fresh from the revocation of his British medical license. Surprisingly Matt Lauer does a decent job asking him tough questions in 3 minutes.
 
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A study was just published in Pediatrics that showed a delayed vaccine schedule has no benefit over the recommended vaccine schedule:

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/peds.2009-2489v1 (abstract)

http://health.usnews.com/health-new...fit-seen-in-delaying-infant-vaccinations.html (news coverage)

There is an interesting line from the US News story though:

"[Lead author M.J.] Smith said the study is the first to evaluate the long-term neuropsychological impacts of multiple vaccinations received in the first seven months of life."

I certainly applaud the effort. But could this be the FIRST study to look at this?

There's also an eLetter worth reading at the end of the abstract.
 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/37312715#37312715

Wakefield on the today show this morning fresh from the revocation of his British medical license. Surprisingly Matt Lauer does a decent job asking him tough questions in 3 minutes.

A radio interview (710 AM in NY) with Wakefield done later the same day as the Today Show interview. Interviewed by Ronald Hoffman, MD, a well-known integrative medicine physician. Worth the 30 minutes or so. http://www.wor710.com/topic/play_window.php?audioType=Episode&audioId=4684468
 
A study was just published in Pediatrics that showed a delayed vaccine schedule has no benefit over the recommended vaccine schedule:

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/peds.2009-2489v1 (abstract)

http://health.usnews.com/health-new...fit-seen-in-delaying-infant-vaccinations.html (news coverage)

There is an interesting line from the US News story though:

"[Lead author M.J.] Smith said the study is the first to evaluate the long-term neuropsychological impacts of multiple vaccinations received in the first seven months of life."

I certainly applaud the effort. But could this be the FIRST study to look at this?

There's also an eLetter worth reading at the end of the abstract.

No one else is surprised by this? I thought there were lots of these types of studies.
 
Maybe I'm missing something, but why would I be that surprised? Attaching vaccination to neurodevelopmental issues is a relatively recent phenomenon which would create a relatively recent interest in a study like the one cited. There are many questions in science and medicine that haven't quite been asked yet, thus how we continue to find things to study.
 
Maybe I'm missing something, but why would I be that surprised? Attaching vaccination to neurodevelopmental issues is a relatively recent phenomenon which would create a relatively recent interest in a study like the one cited. There are many questions in science and medicine that haven't quite been asked yet, thus how we continue to find things to study.

That the research is being done is a good thing, and I would never disagree with that. I'm glad more study is being focused on this issue. I was merely pointing out that, even in the words of the lead author of this Pediatrics study, that this was the first such study to be done. Recall that those who call for more research are often shouted down by others with statements to the effect that there are already enough studies, this has all been thoroughly explored, stop wasting funding, etc (there are such examples even in this thread). That was my point.

And GO FLYERS!
 
Ahh, I see where you're coming from, though I would like to point out a few things to round out your thoughts on the matter: the study in question would have been incredibly cheap (it just number crunched on already-available data) so looking into this (novel) idea was a very cost effective way to put another nail in the coffin, so to speak. I agree that sometimes people come off a little black-and-white (and red at times) over the idea that "we don't need more research, but, on a large scale if your talking about the NIH giving a large grant on autism studies, I too would advocate putting the money toward avenues that are more promising (and yes, that might include environmental interactions [a late FYI: yes the medical community is interested in environmental factors. Just like any disease with genetic predispositions, we search for environmental "co-factors"]) and less beaten down. But it doesn't mean that meaningful data still can't be put to the issue. Second: I'll re-emphasize that it isn't that surprising (or suspicious) that a new question/hypothesis has put to the issue. I am working on a retrospective chart review on an event that I would put money on having occurred thousands of times, across the country, at multiple centers to children within my field of interest. And yet, I couldn't find one lick of data on it.
And OT: the cited study probably speaks to the emerging utility of bioinformatics and its clinical application.
 
Perhaps this will shut up the "we must cure the one trigger" nuts:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature09146.html
Nature | Letter
Functional impact of global rare copy number variation in autism spectrum disorders [author list]

Journal name: Nature Year published: (2010) DOI: doi:10.1038/nature09146 Received 03 December 2009 Accepted 07 May 2010 Published online 09 June 2010
...Although ASDs are known to be highly heritable (~90%)3, the underlying genetic determinants are still largely unknown. Here we analysed the genome-wide characteristics of rare (<1% frequency) copy number variation in ASD using dense genotyping arrays. When comparing 996 ASD individuals of European ancestry to 1,287 matched controls, cases were found to carry a higher global burden of rare, genic copy number variants (CNVs) (1.19 fold, P = 0.012), especially so for loci previously implicated in either ASD and/or intellectual disability (1.69 fold, P = 3.4&#8201;×&#8201;10-4). Among the CNVs there were numerous de novo and inherited events, sometimes in combination in a given family, implicating many novel ASD genes such as SHANK2, SYNGAP1, DLGAP2 and the X-linked DDX53–PTCHD1 locus. We also discovered an enrichment of CNVs disrupting functional gene sets involved in cellular proliferation, projection and motility, and GTPase/Ras signalling. Our results reveal many new genetic and functional targets in ASD that may lead to final connected pathways....

....Our findings provide strong support for the involvement of multiple rare genic CNVs, both genome-wide and at specific loci, in ASD. These findings, similar to those recently described in schizophrenia26, suggest that at least some of these ASD CNVs (and the genes that they affect) are under purifying selection27. Genes previously implicated in ASD by rare variant findings have pointed to functional themes in ASD pathophysiology....


And, very astutely pointed out by PZ MEYER:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/06/autism_and_the_search_for_simp.php

One fact is so obvious that it's unfortunate I have to mention it: no external agent, such as a vaccine, can generate a consistent pattern of duplication and deletions in an affected individual's cells. These data say it's an error to chase down transient environmental agents given relatively late in life to people.
 
Yeah "community identification" Think about that for awhile. It in no way expresses what you misrepresent it to mean. Dishonesty is an unappealing quality in a medical provider. please take up law instead.
that may be one of the most poetically beautiful shoot-downs I have ever witnessed. Highly appreciated.
 
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http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/29/health/research/29child.html

The above brief NY Times article discusses a new study that shows combining MMR and chickenpox increases risk for febrile seizures. Does this suggest that combining vaccines can have unintended effects?

The last line of the article reads:
“Unless parents have a strong preference for the combination vaccine, providers should use a separate vaccine,” Dr. Klein said."

Interestingly, back in the day, Wakefield had recommended using separate vaccines for M,M and R, which were available at the time. He, of course, was skewered for it.
 
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2010-06-28-vaccines28_st_N.htm

I don't think the Pediatrics issue is out online yet, but I found this article a little more informative. Note the emphasis of the study author on the slight increase in a benign event occurring after these shots and the reasoned and open ended response of the CDC to the data (allow for parent preference. http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5903a1.htm is the recommendation). So basically, one upshot, in this case, is that "the system" is working well (acknowledging that this is not always the case and that it is the case far more often than some would like to admit).

Facetguy, I know you have an inquisitive and intelligent mind, and I think we all in medicine are obligated to ask questions of all that is presented to us (like your other thread on statins), however, at times I think you start looking at issues from a very narrow lens and occasionally miss the forest for the trees. I respectfully submit that news articles from the lay press are fantastic starting points to explore mendical issues in a timely fashion, to see the forest you need to start looking beyond them to actual sources and seeing a lot more context. The medical and pharmaceutical system in the country is flawed, however much is good about it and one subtext I sometimes perceive is that the "alternative" medical, neutra (pharma)ceutical industry doesn't share the same flaws born of $$.
 
And Wakefield didn't have compelling evidence of a need to break up the M, M, & R and certainly had his own financial interest in creating a need to. And, of course, the suggestion above is to separate the MMR and Varicalla vaccines (not the M, M, & R components). I reasoned approach to this would be, while counseling parents to the risks of the imms (as is our obligation) to ask if there is a family history of febrile seizures, esp for the age 1 group (as they are more likely to experience this than the 4yo) given the strong family predilection for them.
 
J-Rad, I'm glad you responded, as you always lend a reasoned voice to these issues. I was using the febrile seizures finding, small as it may be, to illustrate that we don't always know as much as we think we do, and this may apply to vaccinations. As I've noted numerous times here, I'm not anti-vax, but I am in favor of pursuing any additional lines of research that will enable our healthcare system, vaccinations included, to be as safe and effective as possible. Being a parent of 2 young children only increases my interest in the topic. It irritates me to hear others state that we already know everything there is to know about vaccine safety and further exploration is a waste of time and resources.

On the Wakefield point, the statement by Dr. Klein in the LA Times article simply jogged my memory as to a similar recommendation of separating vaccines instead of utilizing combo vaccines. It wasn't meant to be an exact parallel.

The issue of statins is somewhat intriguing to me. Indeed my interest was piqued by the kind of looking more deeply into the original sources you suggest. Dr. John Abramson was one author who sort of opened my eyes to what goes on in policy making, particularly with respect to statins. He (and others by now) has gone through the data with a fine toothed comb. Statins are such money-makers that they appear to be immune to criticism to a large degree. Now, as we see in the current isssue of Archives, the evidence appears to be mounting that statins ain't all that. But, because of the heavyweights that back statins and the incredible amounts of profits involved, these critical findings and comments will likely go largely ignored and statins will move closer and closer to being added to the water supply (joking, but you get the point).

Our medical system is clearly flawed, but I agree with you that there is an awful lot of good about it too. But I don't believe that an "alternative" medical system is automatically better. I do, however, believe that non-pharma-centered approaches can be useful, a notion that usually falls on deaf ears given the way our system is designed (i.e., the one's with the money have the most influence, regardless of whether they are right). So, perhaps that subtext is reflected in my comments at times.:)
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/29/health/research/29child.html

The above brief NY Times article discusses a new study that shows combining MMR and chickenpox increases risk for febrile seizures. Does this suggest that combining vaccines can have unintended effects?

The last line of the article reads:
"Unless parents have a strong preference for the combination vaccine, providers should use a separate vaccine," Dr. Klein said."

Interestingly, back in the day, Wakefield had recommended using separate vaccines for M,M and R, which were available at the time. He, of course, was skewered for it.

A known side effect of vaccines is fever. Febrile seizures are caused by...fever. A causes B, B causes C. Is it really surprising when a study shows that increasing A exposure increases C outcome?

This isn't a smoking gun, and it doesn't even show that the combo vaccine is unsafe. 2300 kids have to be vaccinated with the combo vaccine to cause one additional febrile seizure. We already accept a rate of 1 per 1000 with the separate vaccines. With the combo vaccine it's about 1.4 per 1000. So what is the big problem?
 
A known side effect of vaccines is fever. Febrile seizures are caused by...fever. A causes B, B causes C. Is it really surprising when a study shows that increasing A exposure increases C outcome?

This isn't a smoking gun, and it doesn't even show that the combo vaccine is unsafe. 2300 kids have to be vaccinated with the combo vaccine to cause one additional febrile seizure. We already accept a rate of 1 per 1000 with the separate vaccines. With the combo vaccine it's about 1.4 per 1000. So what is the big problem?

"The big problem" is that this increase in febrile seizures (which was reportedly double) was unanticipated and has led to a change in recommendation. Simply combining the chickenpox vaccine with MMR into one shot created this change. Perhaps there are other unanticipated ramifications involving other combinations of vaccines; who knows. Just last month a study was published which the lead author described as the first study "to evaluate the long-term neuropsychological impacts of multiple vaccinations received in the first seven months of life." Do we really have this all figured out yet?

Nobody is saying this is the end-all smoking gun, and nobody (or at least I'm not) is saying this causes autism or something. It's just a reminder that just when we think we've got it all figured out, unanticipated events like this occur. And hats off to the researchers that did this work that led to the recommended change; some might have scoffed at the idea of even doing this study.
 
More HuffPo, more Kirby:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/autism-vaccine-_b_817879.html

This one seems quite reasonable and informative.

While there are spikes of reasonableness, overall I would say it was chock full of logical fallacies, missing some points entirely, and over-extrapolations and massaging of other points. I do actually read these things you post and I actually found myself seeing a sense of desperation and the need to cling to his own sense of relevance in this one (but that's just my take, others may not agree).
 
While there are spikes of reasonableness, overall I would say it was chock full of logical fallacies, missing some points entirely, and over-extrapolations and massaging of other points. I do actually read these things you post and I actually found myself seeing a sense of desperation and the need to cling to his own sense of relevance in this one (but that's just my take, others may not agree).

I thought Kirby came off as less radical in this one since he espouses a pro-vaccine message, makes it clear that vaccines aren't everything when it comes to autism, mentions ongoing research efforts into real issues like mitochondrial problems, and overall seems to be saying "hey, let's keep looking into this since we don't have all the answers yet". Of course Kirby is entrenched in his position and comes at the issue at a particular angle. But that happens all the time, even in what we typically consider 'objective' research writing. So I don't mind hearing both sides of the argument. Whether we agree with him or not, Kirby makes us aware of another side of the issue, a side we probably wouldn't otherwise hear, which can foster debate.
 
...makes it clear that vaccines aren't everything when it comes to autism...

Vaccines aren't anything when it comes to autism, and in some cases even prevent autism; ie, the MMR vaccine. Rubella contracted prenatally results in brain damage that frequently manifests as autism. Ironically, the anti-MMR panic in the aftermath of Wakefield's paper may have contributed to the rise in autism rates.
 
Vaccines aren't anything when it comes to autism, and in some cases even prevent autism; ie, the MMR vaccine. Rubella contracted prenatally results in brain damage that frequently manifests as autism. Ironically, the anti-MMR panic in the aftermath of Wakefield's paper may have contributed to the rise in autism rates.

So I take it that you disagree with everything Kirby mentions in the article?None of it has any merit at all in your view?

According to Kirby (and others of course), "All of the "vaccine-autism" studies you hear about investigated just one childhood vaccine out of 14 (MMR), or one vaccine ingredient out of dozens (thimerosal)". Is he right or not?
 
The bottom line is the evidence, and there is not a whiff of evidence in support of a link between vaccines and autism. In fact, since vaccination rates have declined while autism rates have continued to rise, there has been found, in some studies, a negative correlation.

I'm sure Kirby, Jenny McCarthy, Wakefield, and others who have a stake in continuing the "controversy" will continue to nitpick the details of these studies. Unfortunately, no studies are iron-clad; all have some degree of uncertainty that allows wiggle room for unscrupulous or uneducated people to promote theories that have no real merit.
 
The bottom line is the evidence, and there is not a whiff of evidence in support of a link between vaccines and autism. In fact, since vaccination rates have declined while autism rates have continued to rise, there has been found, in some studies, a negative correlation.

I'm sure Kirby, Jenny McCarthy, Wakefield, and others who have a stake in continuing the "controversy" will continue to nitpick the details of these studies. Unfortunately, no studies are iron-clad; all have some degree of uncertainty that allows wiggle room for unscrupulous or uneducated people to promote theories that have no real merit.

Is Kirby correct when he says that the only studies out there are on MMR and thimerosal?
 
Apparently, the CDC and others will pursue vaccine-autism studies: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/cdc-to-study-vaccines-and_b_837360.html

Regarding the issue of genetics being to blame for autism:
"Meanwhile, the IACC has signaled a shift in research priorities into the causes of autism, moving away from genetic studies in favor of investigating the interaction between genes and environmental factors, which it said could include toxins, biological agents and vaccines."

This only makes sense.

Regarding possibly susceptible subgroups, the IACC states "However, the Institute of Medicine report acknowledged that the existing population-based studies were limited in their ability to detect small susceptible subpopulations that could be more genetically vulnerable to environmental exposures."

"That federal panel [the IACC], along with the CDC's Immunization Safety Office, HHS's National Vaccine Advisory Committee, and even the national Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) now all support further research into a possible association between autism and immunization."

While some will surely see this as a waste, I think it's reasonable.
 
I appologize if this has already been answered, but I tend to skim over flame wars pretty rapidly if I wasn't involved in the discussion.

For context, I have a daughter that has been diagnosed with Aspergers.

I've been wondering in the back of my mind if the increased occurrence of Aspergers/Autism might have something to do with the increase of chaos and busyness in our lives. I know that my family has dealt with its fair share. The pace of our lives are so much greater and technology continues to allow us to cram more and more into our lives. With the complexity and nuanced nature of development, could it be that the combination of a genetic predisposition and poorly executed microdevelopmental steps has been the culprit.

If this were the case, the best solution would be to educate and implement the development in a more intentional way. This is the basis for the therapeutic approach that we have chosen. We have just started, but I'm excited by results/potential of this treatment.

Anyway I just wanted to see if anybody knows of any scholarly articles or research papers that ask/answer this question. In my mind it is a far more productive question than any involving vaccines.
 
Here's a systematic review of the vaccines/autism question. I've exerpted a point that follows nicely IMV from our preceding discussion:

http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/48/4/456.full

Autism is not an immune-mediated disease. Unlike autoimmune diseases such as multiple sclerosis, there is no evidence of immune activation or inflammatory lesions in the CNS of people with autism. In fact, current data suggest that genetic variation in neuronal circuitry that affects synaptic development might in part account for autistic behavior. Thus, speculation that an exaggerated or inappropriate immune response to vaccination precipitates autism is at variance with current scientific data that address the pathogenesis of autism.

So not only is there zero evidence linking vaccines with autism, it also doesn't make any sense because autism has nothing to do with the immune system.

Twenty epidemiologic studies have shown that neither thimerosal nor MMR vaccine causes autism. These studies have been performed in several countries by many different investigators who have employed a multitude of epidemiologic and statistical methods. The large size of the studied populations has afforded a level of statistical power sufficient to detect even rare associations. These studies, in concert with the biological implausibility that vaccines overwhelm a child's immune system, have effectively dismissed the notion that vaccines cause autism. Further studies on the cause or causes of autism should focus on more-promising leads.

Medical research resources are not unlimited. To advocate for the continued exploration of this question would be promoting an irresponsible squandering of funds in order to explore a hypothesis that has been thoroughly discredited.
 
Here's a systematic review of the vaccines/autism question. I've exerpted a point that follows nicely IMV from our preceding discussion:

http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/48/4/456.full



So not only is there zero evidence linking vaccines with autism, it also doesn't make any sense because autism has nothing to do with the immune system.

The cause of autism is unknown. It is likely multifactorial. To say that "autism has nothing to do with the immune system" is premature, in my opinion.


Twenty epidemiologic studies have shown that neither thimerosal nor MMR vaccine causes autism.

Agreed. The data for those 2 things specifically is pretty convincing.

Medical research resources are not unlimited. To advocate for the continued exploration of this question would be promoting an irresponsible squandering of funds in order to explore a hypothesis that has been thoroughly discredited.

The reason the study I posted earlier today is getting some attention is because it seems to suggest a larger influence from environmental factors than previously thought. Most of the focus thus far has been on genetic factors, which I'm sure is quite valid too. But to focus on genetics at the expense of environmental factors (and there are many) would be a mistake and, as you suggest, medical research resources are not unlimited and we wouldn't want to overlook issues that evidence now tells us are important. The authors of this paper feel the role of genetics in autism may be overblown; if they are right, wouldn't we be wasting precious resources pursuing that avenue exclusively?

To again state the overarching issue, vaccines don't explain autism in its totality (you seem to be suggesting my position is otherwise). Vaccines may impact subsets of vulnerable kids, and that is being researched. But vaccines are but one source of environmental factors, so it doesn't make sense to toss out the entire 'environmental contribution' issue because MMR and thimerosal have been well-researched. Fortunately, those who make the autism research decisions are already working in this direction.
 
CDC says autism rates continue to climb:
http://yourlife.usatoday.com/health...ore-common-than-previously-thought/53856542/1

Is it all just because of better reporting/counting/diagnosis?

Peter Bearman, a Columbia University sociologist, says better awareness has something to do with the increase but "I don't believe the whole thing is diagnostic."

But, "It doesn't mean that there's a true increase in cases," said Roy Richard Grinker, an anthropology professor at The George Washington University in Washington.

It looks like more attention will be paid to possible environmental factors and not focus solely on genetics as had been previously recommended.

"...researchers across the country are busy trying to understand what in the environment might be causing so many cases of autism.
"While we're not completely sure of what is driving the rise in autism cases, it is certainly striking enough to warrant exploring in detail the possibility that environmental exposures contribute to this," said Marc Weisskopf, an epidemiologist and associate professor at the Harvard School of Public Health, who is studying a possible link between air pollution and autism. "There are plenty of other reasons to avoid chemical toxicants, but we can't yet pinpoint whether one of these is a culprit in this rise."
 
...It looks like more attention will be paid to possible environmental factors and not focus solely on genetics as had been previously recommended.

In the eleven years since I started my medical education and the six+ of which I've spent in the world of pediatric medicine, I've never seen it once recommended that we "focus solely on genetics" and on many occasions have heard people ponder about potential environmental components/triggers to what was thought to be an increase in cases (now more confirmed than a worry/concern/thought). From whence did this supposed advice come?
 
In the eleven years since I started my medical education and the six+ of which I've spent in the world of pediatric medicine, I've never seen it once recommended that we "focus solely on genetics" and on many occasions have heard people ponder about potential environmental components/triggers to what was thought to be an increase in cases (now more confirmed than a worry/concern/thought). From whence did this supposed advice come?

Better stated: primarily genetics.

It's my recollection from reading Dr. Offit's Prophets book that he has been a major proponent of focusing on genetics and downplaying environmental links. If I still have his book laying around, I'll try to provide some specifics. We also saw some comments long ago on this thread to the effect that studying environmental factors is a waste of research dollars.

The increased focus on environmental factors/triggers isn't brand new; there have been references to research proposals from CDC and others earlier in this thread. So I don't doubt that you have heard people ponder about these environmental factors. There will be ongoing pondering as well.
 
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