Technology New BMW 3series

amuse · Nov 28, 2004

specifications:
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=21&article_id=8909

southerndoc · Nov 28, 2004

Sharp isn't it?

I wonder when the coupes are coming out. They always seem to lag behind the sedans 6 months to a year.

WRXwing · Nov 29, 2004

Nice to see they finally moved the hp up where it should be. Seriously, the old 325i was ridiculous. Such great handling, such a reputation for sheer drivability... and such an underpowered car.

DOctorJay · Nov 30, 2004

can't wait to see the new M3

-J

amuse · Nov 30, 2004

if you click the photos button to the right (under the heading multimedia), you get more photos of the car
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=21&article_id=8909

Whisker Barrel Cortex · Dec 1, 2004

Sexy. I love the current 3 series coupe and they didn't change this as radically as the 5 or the 7. This may be my next car when it comes out. Either that or the G35 coupe.

DDS2BE · Dec 2, 2004

I'm getting Acura TL for my time being in dental school. Possibly G35 still can't decide 🙂

momojojo · Jan 18, 2005

coupe would look the best judging from current 3 series coupes but i need 4 doors.

I already have a order in for a 330.

i found a bunch of pictures here

http://club3series.com/photopost/index.php

NCHoosier · Feb 12, 2005

I disagree that the 325i is underpowered. True, it "only" produces 183ish HP, but people who compare the relative merits of engines based on the horsepower figure alone demonstrate a relative lack of automotive understanding. First, horsepower only provides high end speed, while torque is what pushes you back in the seat when you slam on the gas at a stoplight. Second, not all "HP" is created equal. BMW traditionally underrates their cars' HP, and most auto enthusiasts will tell you that BMW engines consistently outperform others with "higher" HP ratings. As an example, look up the performance statistics on a BMW Z4 3.0 versus the Nissan 350Z.

It is easy to see why horsepower is always tossed around - just check any new car commercial or print ad and that is almost always the first thing mentioned, while torque is rarely if ever. In reality, for daily driving in North America, torque is the more useful statistic.

That being said, the 325i with the limiter removed attains a top speed of 146 mph, and has 0-60 times in the 6-7 second range. Not bad for a normally aspirated, 185 HP engine.

By the way, the WRX is an awesome car. This coming from a 3-series owner. 👍

WRXwing said:
Nice to see they finally moved the hp up where it should be. Seriously, the old 325i was ridiculous. Such great handling, such a reputation for sheer drivability... and such an underpowered car.

Apollyon · Feb 12, 2005

NCHoosier said:
I disagree that the 325i is underpowered. True, it "only" produces 183ish HP, but people who compare the relative merits of engines based on the horsepower figure alone demonstrate a relative lack of automotive understanding. First, horsepower only provides high end speed, while torque is what pushes you back in the seat when you slam on the gas at a stoplight. Second, not all "HP" is created equal. BMW traditionally underrates their cars' HP, and most auto enthusiasts will tell you that BMW engines consistently outperform others with "higher" HP ratings. As an example, look up the performance statistics on a BMW Z4 3.0 versus the Nissan 350Z.

It is easy to see why horsepower is always tossed around - just check any new car commercial or print ad and that is almost always the first thing mentioned, while torque is rarely if ever. In reality, for daily driving in North America, torque is the more useful statistic.

That being said, the 325i with the limiter removed attains a top speed of 146 mph, and has 0-60 times in the 6-7 second range. Not bad for a normally aspirated, 185 HP engine.

By the way, the WRX is an awesome car. This coming from a 3-series owner. 👍

I agree with the above (as a 5-series owner - 525i) (except for the WRX - no info on that) - whatever I throw at it, it takes. However, I thought the 146mph was with the limiter.

surg4me · Feb 13, 2005

325i is a wanna-be lux racer car...for the price, get a TL (power and lux), or WRX STi (raw power, fun). If you have the extra dough, leave the 325i and get a 330i (great power and lux)...nice..

JAMMAN · Feb 15, 2005

WRXwing said:
Nice to see they finally moved the hp up where it should be. Seriously, the old 325i was ridiculous. Such great handling, such a reputation for sheer drivability... and such an underpowered car.

The 325 is not underpowered in any way, IMHO. It is a wonderful car and it is fast, especially if you have a manual and know how to drive. The car does 60 in third gear without redlining and accellerates from 60-80 in 4th easily. Then settles in to 5th for a nice ride. This is more than adequate for even the most sporting, spirited and safe drivers on the road.

As far as the new 3 is concerned, it is a very nice car. The coupes will be out 6 months later and the new M3 will be out about 6 months after the coupes.

Personally, I prefer a coupe and since I have the means...I will wait for the new M3 convertible....mystic blue...with cinnamon interior....yumm! 😀

JAMMAN · Feb 15, 2005

surg4me said:
325i is a wanna-be lux racer car...for the price, get a TL (power and lux), or WRX STi (raw power, fun). If you have the extra dough, leave the 325i and get a 330i (great power and lux)...nice..

I disagree about the 330i. Although it does have more horsepower, I don't think that head to head a standard 330i is that much better. For me, the choice was always 325i or M3.

Of course, the 330 with the performance package ($3,900 extra) is a nice compromise if you can't afford an M3 ($42K v $48K base).

nyresident · Feb 26, 2005

I've always been partial to VW/Audi cars compared to BMW.

the new Passat (2006) can finally compete with the 3-series.

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=29&article_id=9175

WRXwing · Feb 28, 2005

Eh, looks like I pissed off a bunch of BMW owners, at least one of whom chooses to state that my knowledge of cars is limited because he had a different opinion. Did I say that hp is the end all? Nah. I just said that the 325, in its current incarnation, is underpowered. What is it about internet forums that causes people to be so aggressive in their arguments?

I realize that part of my feeling about the current 325 might be from not having enough experience driving one. Most of my time has been in my cousin's 325xi, and I'm sure the 2wd 325i has more of a kick since it's not losing as much power to the wheels. Still, I just feel that I get more, well, "kick" from my own car, and I actually chose to own a 4EAT, so it's not even at the level of a standard WRX. Then I consider that my car is a cheap looking, plastic-filled vehicle of questionable style (not to me, I love it to death, but I know what others think). So, my point is, though the 325 in and of itself isn't slow per se, considering how amazing everything else is about the car and how superlative their design, handling, etc are, I think they ought to have a more above-average engine. I mean, look at the cheapo Dodge SRT-4. Amazing engine. I feel the 325 should have something that performs along the lines of the STI or Evo engines. (Granted, they want to keep their engine design n/a, but you know...)

Anyways, it's all just my opinion. I'll take my lack of automotive knowledge back to the WRX forums... 🙂

(Incidentally, did anyone pay attention to the Volvo S60R when it came out? It didn't post great performance reviews, but in concept, that thing was sick!)

Apollyon · Mar 4, 2005

WRXwing said:
Eh, looks like I pissed off a bunch of BMW owners

"Pissed off"? A little too much emotion there. Discussion and people disagreeing does not equal "pissed off".

All I said was that I didn't agree that the 2.5L engine isn't underpowered. If that is being "pissed off" to you, I don't want to offend your obviously delicate sensibilities! (<-- sarcasm)

NCHoosier · Mar 6, 2005

WRXwing said:
Eh, looks like I pissed off a bunch of BMW owners, at least one of whom chooses to state that my knowledge of cars is limited because he had a different opinion. Did I say that hp is the end all? Nah. I just said that the 325, in its current incarnation, is underpowered. What is it about internet forums that causes people to be so aggressive in their arguments?

I realize that part of my feeling about the current 325 might be from not having enough experience driving one. Most of my time has been in my cousin's 325xi, and I'm sure the 2wd 325i has more of a kick since it's not losing as much power to the wheels. Still, I just feel that I get more, well, "kick" from my own car, and I actually chose to own a 4EAT, so it's not even at the level of a standard WRX. Then I consider that my car is a cheap looking, plastic-filled vehicle of questionable style (not to me, I love it to death, but I know what others think). So, my point is, though the 325 in and of itself isn't slow per se, considering how amazing everything else is about the car and how superlative their design, handling, etc are, I think they ought to have a more above-average engine. I mean, look at the cheapo Dodge SRT-4. Amazing engine. I feel the 325 should have something that performs along the lines of the STI or Evo engines. (Granted, they want to keep their engine design n/a, but you know...)

A few things.

1. The AWD 'xi' models are, as you point out, not representative of what a 3er truly does and should feel like. Not so much due to the power issue, although the AWD does add weight, but the suspension on the 'xi' is relatively poor. AWD does help with the snow, but you give up too much in handling, IMHO.

2. I would argue that someone who buys and owns, say, an M3, is after something different than a STI or Evo owner. You'll hear people compare the M3 to a Corvette. Well of course the 'Vette pretty much can run laps around the M3, but again, the that is not the true intent/nature of the M3.

3. I would also respectfully submit that the Volkswagen Passat, while a nice car, was not and will never be intended to compete with the 3 series cars. The most natural competitors (to the 3) are the G35, the A4/A6, and to a certain extent the MB C320.

4. To each their own - I've been around Audis quite a bit as my dad has had several, but I have no interest in owning an Audi. I'm sure there are plenty of Audi owners out there who would say the same about BMWs.

Nice discussion thread we have going here.

-NCH

Sessamoid · Mar 6, 2005

NCHoosier said:
4. To each their own - I've been around Audis quite a bit as my dad has had several, but I have no interest in owning an Audi. I'm sure there are plenty of Audi owners out there who would say the same about BMWs.

Nice discussion thread we have going here.

-NCH

If I were to buy a practical car, I'd pick the Audi RS6 Avant if it were ever brought to the US market. A station wagon that will dust most sports cars, you gotta love that!

WRXwing · Mar 7, 2005

Yeah, I need to get more time in a 325i to really get a feel for it. I've driven my sister's A4 (1.8T) quite a bit. How would you say the two compare in terms of overall feel with driving?

I know what you mean about torque being the source of that "push" from the line. I guess my perceptions are always going to be skewed based on driving a WRX everyday. Mind you, I'm not saying that the WRX is a better car in any way shape or form... only that it's just what I'm used to, so it becomes my frame of reference. (i.e., great pull from a dig, so-so top end, unbelievably good awd, unbelievably bad everything-non-engine/powertrain-related) I know the perceptions of, say, my best friend who drives an Accord, are going to different when he gets behind the wheel of a 3-series.

It must be nice to have ready power without all that turbo laaaaaaaaaag...

Okay, I have an unopened copy of GT4 sitting next to me... time to justify skipping rotation today...

Whisker Barrel Cortex · Mar 8, 2005

I currently drive and accord, never drove a WRX

I have test driven a 325i, an A4, and a 350z. The A4 felt bigger, less nimble, less in tune with the road than either of the other cars. The 325i accelerated well, but didn't really feel especially fast off the line. However, the handling and road feel was amazing. I took it on a lot of winding roads near the dealership and it was amazing how it gripped the road. The A4 just felt huge in comparison. The 350z is a different animal all together and can't be compared to the other two. It acclerated well and handled well. Unfortunately I wasn't allowed to take it to the twisty roads. My next test drive may be the G35 coupe.

I can't wait till I can afford to buy one of these.

NCHoosier · Mar 8, 2005

Whisker Barrel Cortex said:
I currently drive and accord, never drove a WRX

I have test driven a 325i, an A4, and a 350z. The A4 felt bigger, less nimble, less in tune with the road than either of the other cars. The 325i accelerated well, but didn't really feel especially fast off the line. However, the handling and road feel was amazing. I took it on a lot of winding roads near the dealership and it was amazing how it gripped the road. The A4 just felt huge in comparison. The 350z is a different animal all together and can't be compared to the other two. It acclerated well and handled well. Unfortunately I wasn't allowed to take it to the twisty roads. My next test drive may be the G35 coupe.

I can't wait till I can afford to buy one of these.

You're going to be a radiology attending fairly soon? I'm thinking an M3 or M5 ought to be in your future, my friend. 🙂

From what I've read about the new M5 coming out, it looks like it'll be pretty much untouchable.

Best regards,
NCH

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