New Duke student-to-student guide on getting into med school

[TommyGunn04]

---

Members do not see this ad.

The Duke Med class of 2006 wrote a book about applying and getting into medical school. It's just recently been published by Vault books: http://www.vault.com/store/book_preview.jsp?product_id=43007. I thought people in the pre-allopathic forum might be interested in this information, as it's a rather unusual compilation that could be very useful for applicants. I know a number of the contributors and know that there are no royalties for book sales, so please don't take this as an advertisement. I would have posted this in the for sale/advertisements section, but figured very few people would could benefit from it would actually see it there. But feel free to move this post if you feel it is inappropriate. I'm just posting it here because I figured it'd be helpful and something applicants would want to know about.

If you click the above link and scroll down a bit, there are several excerpts from an interview with Dr. Armstrong, Duke's dean of admissions.

Enjoy!

 

[lynn623la]

BTW, the ) on the end of the link is causing the website to not show up properly.

But thanks for the info. Very motivating to hear the Dean talk about things.. might check into that.

True about the interview, that people obsess about it too much that they come off as being unnatural.

 

[chrisv]

Thanks! I had to do a little search on the book cuz' the link wasn't working. Hopefully, this should work for you guys

http://www.vault.com/store/book_preview.jsp?product_id=43007#excerpt

 

[Oculus Sinistra]

Thanks! I had to do a little search on the book cuz' the link wasn't working. Hopefully, this should work for you guys

http://www.vault.com/store/book_preview.jsp?product_id=43007#excerpt

Thanks for correcting that.
The only thing is... this book is like preaching to the choir here on SDN...

 

[Chuckwalla]

Eh, those books are full of crap. Get the best GPA and MCAT you can. Get ECs that make you look good, get good recommendations, don't come off like a pompous ass at the interview. Give me a break, just a bunch of people trying to cash in.

 

[colbgw02]

Eh, those books are full of crap. Get the best GPA and MCAT you can. Get ECs that make you look good, get good recommendations, don't come off like a pompous ass at the interview. Give me a break, just a bunch of people trying to cash in.

hahaha - there's just something so typical about a bunch of duke students trying to tell everyone else how to get into medical school. sorry, i don't claim to be unbiased.

 

[TommyGunn04]

Eh, those books are full of crap. Get the best GPA and MCAT you can. Get ECs that make you look good, get good recommendations, don't come off like a pompous ass at the interview. Give me a break, just a bunch of people trying to cash in.

Actually, the majority of the proceeds (which weren't much) were donated to Duke Children's Hospital. But thanks for being such an optimist and having such faith in the goodness of your fellow human beings 🙄

The book was written by many students who themselves actually did interviews and served on the admissions committee. Yup...I'm sure it's "full of crap" 🙄

 

[TommyGunn04]

hahaha - there's just something so typical about a bunch of duke students trying to tell everyone else how to get into medical school. sorry, i don't claim to be unbiased.

Seeing as Duke Med is the most diverse medical school in the country, I'm not sure there's realy ANYTHING "typical" about a group of Duke students.

It's so encouraging how half of the replies here have been judgmental, ignorant, and condescending. SDN was a very helpful resource for me when I was applying to med school, but it appears things have changed...

Sorry for trying to help.

 

[Mman]

Seeing as Duke Med is the most diverse medical school in the country

And who made these rankings? Most diverse by what measure? Since the Duke med school class is so small, I have a hard time calling it the most diverse. And have you met Duke med students? They are all basically the same.





(just kidding)

 

[Dookter]

And have you met Duke med students? They are all basically the same.

(just kidding)

Even though you added the just kidding down at the bottom, it still seems wrong to say that all Duke students are the same. That could still spread false info about Duke. I can say with absolute certainty that Duke students differ from one another more than any other group of people I have ever seen. It is actually pretty amazing.

 

[stoppushingit]

i agree with you UT.

 

[8744]

Sure, if you're the typical applicant who can get into Duke by all means read that book. I'm sure on page 123 it suggests, helpfully, that the prospective applicant should set up a TB clinic in the Congo during his junior year of undergrad.

All the rest of you can find what you really need to know on my humble blog.

 

[8744]

And who made these rankings? Most diverse by what measure? Since the Duke med school class is so small, I have a hard time calling it the most diverse. And have you met Duke med students? They are all basically the same.





(just kidding)

I've met a lot of Duke Medical School students and with a few exceptions, they are very intelligent, motivated, and work hard. And "diverse," too, although why that's important has yet to be demonstrated rationally.

But they still stutter shamelessly when being pimped by their attendings.

I met the only two conservative Duke medical students, by the way. No point except that for such a diverse bunch, the majority of Duke's students hold somewhat "cookie-cutter" views on almost everything.

 

[notdeadyet]

Seeing as Duke Med is the most diverse medical school in the country,

What?!?

According to the latest MSAR, of the reported 125 applicants, 109 report themselves as white. This makes them one of the least diverse med schools I've seen.

*** Note- I am in error. See post #16 for correction. Apologies... ***

 

[TommyGunn04]

What?!?

According to the latest MSAR, of the reported 125 applicants, 109 report themselves as white. This makes them one of the least diverse med schools I've seen.

125 applicants?? I'm confused. There are 100 members of each entering class, and of the graduating class this past year there were definitely more than 16 non-white students. There were at least that many African American students, not even counting other minorities! I'm not sure where those numbers came from, but they're dead wrong.

The diversity comment I made above comes from the sentiments I've heard expressed by a number of different admissions officers and program directors on the interview trail, at various institutions. Duke is very well-known in these circles for making much more of an effort at recruiting under-represented minorities and international students as compared to other top schools. This stems from Dr. Armstrong's particular ideals and leadership.

Here's a profile of the 2002 entering class, although more recent classes are quite a bit more diverse:

http://dukemed.duke.edu/AdmissionsFinancialAid/index.cfm?method=ProfileOfTheLastClass

Click the 2000 class and you'll see 43 minority students listed out of a class of 100. Few schools are as ethnically diverse as Duke.

 

[notdeadyet]

125 applicants?? I'm confused.

My bad. That should have read 125 matriculants.

Few schools are as ethnically diverse as Duke.

Mea culpa. The MSAR flipped a few pages as I was typing. The 109 white matriculants for an entering class of 125 was actually Creighton University, not Duke.

Duke's info was 58 white matriculants for an entering class of 101. Their diversity numbers seem to be some of the best.

My apologies...

 

[Mac11]

Duke's info was 58 white matriculants for an entering class of 101. Their diversity numbers seem to be some of the best.

Why does it matter?

 

[notdeadyet]

Why does it matter?

Some folks would like to go to a medical school that has all upper middle class suburban white kids, just like those they grew up around.

Some folks would like a medical school of people from all walks of life and different religious, ethnic and socioeconomic backgrounds.

Some folks like something in between.

To each their own. God bless the MSAR so you know where to apply.

 

[Chuckwalla]

Actually, the majority of the proceeds (which weren't much) were donated to Duke Children's Hospital. But thanks for being such an optimist and having such faith in the goodness of your fellow human beings 🙄

These Duke students interviewing for residency.

"I cowrote a book helping pre-meds get into med school. Not only that, the proceeds went to Duke Children's Hospital and not myself."

You will find in this world VERY little done by people is out of the kindness of their heart.

 

[8744]

These Duke students interviewing for residency.

"I cowrote a book helping pre-meds get into med school. Not only that, the proceeds went to Duke Children's Hospital and not myself."

You will find in this world VERY little done by people is out of the kindness of their heart.

With the exception of my humble blog, of course, for which I recieve no compensation, don't put on my resume, and write mostly when I am on call, thus sacrificing my sleep so that my readers may arm themselves for the struggle.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

These Duke students interviewing for residency.

"I cowrote a book helping pre-meds get into med school. Not only that, the proceeds went to Duke Children's Hospital and not myself."

You will find in this world VERY little done by people is out of the kindness of their heart.

speak for yourself. you've never done something pleasant for someone for absolutely no way of benefiting or reward? and dont tell me that people do good things because it makes them feel happy (the whole any action is always a selfish action argument). i dont buy it.

and i sincerely doubt that that book will help them get into residencies that they would not naturally be competitive for. It sucks how if anyone ever dose anything at all related to the medical process, premeds, medschool, etc... they're always seen with a cynical eye.

 

[8744]

speak for yourself. you've never done something pleasant for someone for absolutely no way of benefiting or reward? and dont tell me that people do good things because it makes them feel happy (the whole any action is always a selfish action argument). i dont buy it.

and i sincerely doubt that that book will help them get into residencies that they would not naturally be competitive for. It sucks how if anyone ever dose anything at all related to the medical process, premeds, medschool, etc... they're always seen with a cynical eye.

They wrote it for the same reason I write my blog (he says shamelessly plugging, yet again, his highly interesting blog), that is, to please their own inner ear. Everybody likes to hear themselves talk and everybody likes to think that others are reading what they write.

I liked all of the Duke medical students I met when I was a resident there but to insist they have no selfish motives is not to know the type. They are, on the whole, very calculating and it was the rare medical student I met who did not have her entire career meticulously planned out.

 

[diosa428]

These Duke students interviewing for residency.

"I cowrote a book helping pre-meds get into med school. Not only that, the proceeds went to Duke Children's Hospital and not myself."

You will find in this world VERY little done by people is out of the kindness of their heart.

It's unlikely that this is going to help them get into residencies. Residencies want to see good grades, good board scores, good recommendations and research. They probably could care less about "ECs". Furthurmore, med students have very little time to do anything other than focus on medicine, so a med student isn't going to bother doing something that they're not interested in doing. If they wanted to make themselves look good, they would have spent their extra time studying or doing research, not writing a book.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

They wrote it for the same reason I write my blog (he says shamelessly plugging, yet again, his highly interesting blog), that is, to please their own inner ear. Everybody likes to hear themselves talk and everybody likes to think that others are reading what they write.

I liked all of the Duke medical students I met when I was a resident there but to insist they have no selfish motives is not to know the type. They are, on the whole, very calculating and it was the rare medical student I met who did not have her entire career meticulously planned out.

so writing a book for fellow premeds would help them in their travels to become awesome physcians (in reply to your "entire care meticulously planned out.")? If anything, giving fellow premeds your secrets may lead to more qualified and knowledgable future physcians that may take their dept chiefs spots some day. Being ambitious does not make all actions selfish.

 

[8744]

so writing a book for fellow premeds would help them in their travels to become awesome physcians (in reply to your "entire care meticulously planned out.")? If anything, giving fellow premeds your secrets may lead to more qualified and knowledgable future physcians that may take their dept chiefs spots some day. Being ambitious does not make all actions selfish.

I'm not busting down on them for being ambitious. I admire their ambition. And there is nothing wrong with writing for yourself. I believe that most authors do.

I bet ther book will be of no help to anybody who couldn't get into Duke anyways. For that kind of help you need.....

My blog.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

I bet ther book will be of no help to anybody who couldn't get into Duke anyways.

now that i agree with. im also thinking of doing a $25 1 hr session program where I give people all my tips in an organized format (MCAT tips, general tips, application tips, etc).

Now that I'll do for some side money.

 

[notdeadyet]

You will find in this world VERY little done by people is out of the kindness of their heart.

This sad, sad attitude amongst some premeds is why I'm so glad I went the nontrad route.

Take a year off and do the nondoctor thing a bit and you'll find that LOTs is done by people out of the kindness of their heart.

Maybe all the premeds you've come into contact with in your premed career have gone through the motions and done volunteer work for the sake of getting ahead in the world, but if you step outside of the premed microscosm, you'll find that the world is full of people who spend their LIVES helping others. People who make very little money and have very little prestige, but really do make huge sacrifices for the sake of helping others.

Don't make world judgements based on the very small sample of people you meet in a premed environment. Premeds, thankfully, are not representative of society.

 

[notdeadyet]

I bet ther book will be of no help to anybody who couldn't get into Duke anyways.

Agreed. I tend to wait until stuff is available with an actual spine. PDF-only and spiral-bound books, I find, are usually not worth it.

 

[TommyGunn04]

These Duke students interviewing for residency.

"I cowrote a book helping pre-meds get into med school. Not only that, the proceeds went to Duke Children's Hospital and not myself."

You will find in this world VERY little done by people is out of the kindness of their heart.

Wow! 😱 People like you make interviews the most important part of the admissions screening process. While you may be able to BS your way through writing selfless essays about how you want to help people, many a selfish applicant is weeded out through their transparent performance during the interview process. (some still seem to slip through unfortunately)

There's good reason to have much more faith in humanity than you seem to espouse. And what would medicine even be if it weren't for patients? Doctors would have no "raison d'etre" without them. Medicine loses its soul when we forget that our entire purpose is to serve our patients, not ourselves. BUT, don't assume that playing the academic game and being ambitious is necessarily antithetical to this mission. It's possible to help both our patients and ourselves at times, and doing so doesn't make a person evil or selfish.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

Wow! 😱 People like you make interviews the most important part of the admissions screening process. While you may be able to BS your way through writing selfless essays about how you want to help people, many a selfish applicant is weeded out through their transparent performance during the interview process. (some still seem to slip through unfortunately)

There's good reason to have much more faith in humanity than you seem to espouse. And what would medicine even be if it weren't for patients? Doctors would have no "raison d'etre" without them. Medicine loses its soul when we forget that our entire purpose is to serve our patients, not ourselves. BUT, don't assume that playing the academic game and being ambitious is necessarily antithetical to this mission. It's possible to help both our patients and ourselves at times, and doing so doesn't make a person evil or selfish.

its hard for him to listen to what you're saying since ... word on the street is... that you fling poo. jk. i agree wid ya.

 

[little_late_MD]

Wow! 😱 People like you make interviews the most important part of the admissions screening process. While you may be able to BS your way through writing selfless essays about how you want to help people, many a selfish applicant is weeded out through their transparent performance during the interview process. (some still seem to slip through unfortunately)

There's good reason to have much more faith in humanity than you seem to espouse. And what would medicine even be if it weren't for patients? Doctors would have no "raison d'etre" without them. Medicine loses its soul when we forget that our entire purpose is to serve our patients, not ourselves. BUT, don't assume that playing the academic game and being ambitious is necessarily antithetical to this mission. It's possible to help both our patients and ourselves at times, and doing so doesn't make a person evil or selfish.

I also think it's possible to be cynical and a good person, so the ad hominem portion of your post probably isn't necessary. The poster has an opinion, and is entitled to it.

Having been out of school for some years in the "real" world, I have seen first hand that much done is done simply out of the kindness of people's hearts. However, there is also a very real part of the world that does what it does merely out of self-interest. We can't tell the difference with our eyes, so does it really matter? I don't really pay too much attention to the motives, as in the end it usually doesn't matter.

 

[Mac11]

Some folks would like to go to a medical school that has all upper middle class suburban white kids, just like those they grew up around.

Some folks would like a medical school of people from all walks of life and different religious, ethnic and socioeconomic backgrounds.

Some folks like something in between.

I find this blatantly ******ed; dunno about you but I don't judge people by their economic status or ethnicity.

And I also find it very hard to believe that the Duke students would just make the guide out of the goodness of their collective hearts. Is it possible? Sure. Somehow I have the feeling that further discussion won't resolve the issue.

With that said, there is a ridiculous amount of information on how to 'get in' to med school. All these tips and guides and crap just make things even more stressful than it already is. Let me re-phrase: if you live in a hole and have no idea what you're getting into by going into med school, no number of guides published by overexcited duke students will help you. If you actually look around for 2 seconds, the duke guide is just another in a series of soap ads.