New GME

[Adrenaline Junky]

I was not sure exactly where to post this or if this thread exists since I searched around a bit, but any idea of the effect on matching with the new GME system that combines MD and DO residencies? Thanks everybody for your input!

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[DocVapor]

I'm not sure what exactly you're asking.

At this point I see a few points:
1. DO students will now be able to rank their true preference as they won't have to gamble on entering or skipping the DO match (and it is a gamble either way).
2. Some DO programs will shut down.
3. Some (but not all) previous AOA programs will start accepting MD's, with the potential for a few to completely jump ship and accept nothing but MD's.
4. Some former AOA programs will continue to admit only DO students.
5. Some ACGME programs that don't already accept COMLEX may start, with proportional acceptance to DO students.
6. Most ACGME programs that currently do not consider DO students will continue status quo.

If you're looking for specifics, I think there are way to many factors to make any kind of concrete predictions outside of these points.

 

[Adrenaline Junky]

I'm not sure what exactly you're asking.

At this point I see a few points:
1. DO students will now be able to rank their true preference as they won't have to gamble on entering or skipping the DO match (and it is a gamble either way).
2. Some DO programs will shut down.
3. Some (but not all) previous AOA programs will start accepting MD's, with the potential for a few to completely jump ship and accept nothing but MD's.
4. Some former AOA programs will continue to admit only DO students.
5. Some ACGME programs that don't already accept COMLEX may start, with proportional acceptance to DO students.
6. Most ACGME programs that currently do not consider DO students will continue status quo.

If you're looking for specifics, I think there are way to many factors to make any kind of concrete predictions outside of these points.

Do you think it will help DOs get into more competitive specialities and remove the lingering stigma?

 

[rokshana]

Do you think it will help DOs get into more competitive specialities and remove the lingering stigma?

doubt it...after all, those ACGME programs have that option without the merge...I doubt all of sudden you are going to see DOs at MGH or UCSF...if anything, it may be that more MD students now go to former AOA programs since they can now apply to the former AOA programs.

 

[DelayedGratification]

doubt it...after all, those ACGME programs have that option without the merge...I doubt all of sudden you are going to see DOs at MGH or UCSF...if anything, it may be that more MD students now go to former AOA programs since they can now apply to the former AOA programs.

From this years match list, it actually DOES seem that the top DO students are having more luck getting into the top ACGME residency programs.

 

[Adrenaline Junky]

From this years match list, it actually DOES seem that the top DO students are having more luck getting into the top ACGME residency programs.

I might be wrong but arent their technically more positions overall since it will be combined, therefore DOs will have more options for specialities like neuro? Again I am just in highschool might be completely wrong.

 

[Doctor Christmas]

Do you think it will help DOs get into more competitive specialities and remove the lingering stigma?

How would it change the stigma? DOs will still have DOs. The merger does not eliminate the DO degree. If anything I think the merger will broaden MD's possibilities potentially shutting out DOs who went to DO exclusive programs. Although I think it was unfair that DOs had 2 matches and MDs only one. I think the issue remains the same - DO schools typically have lower standards than MD schools and therefore are easier to get into. Unless that changes I'm not sure how the stigma would change. I also find it frustrating that DOs pretend that they "choose" to be a DO - most DOs went to DO schools because they could not get into MD schools. Not to say that there aren't DOs who are excellent physicians, but inevitably the standards to enter MD schools were not met. The question that you are asking in and out of itself confirms my statement above. For example I have an MD - I'm happy to have an MD, but I did also applied to DO schools as a back up. Would I have gone to a DO school if I did not get into an allopathic school? Probably, but it would not have been my first choice.

 

[Adrenaline Junky]

How would it change the stigma? DOs will still have DOs. The merger does not eliminate the DO degree. If anything I think the merger will broaden MD's possibilities potentially shutting out DOs who went to DO exclusive programs. Although I think it was unfair that DOs had 2 matches and MDs only one. I think the issue remains the same - DO schools typically have lower standards than MD schools and therefore are easier to get into. Unless that changes I'm not sure how the stigma would change. I also find it frustrating that DOs pretend that they "choose" to be a DO - most DOs went to DO schools because they could not get into MD schools. Not to say that there aren't DOs who are excellent physicians, but inevitably the standards to enter MD schools were not met. The question that you are asking in and out of itself confirms my statement above. For example I have an MD - I'm happy to have an MD, but I did also applied to DO schools as a back up. Would I have gone to a DO school if I did not get into an allopathic school? Probably, but it would not have been my first choice.

You are correct, I am primarily applying to MD programs and DOs as a backup. Again it is a backup. I’ve read enough threads to know that if you do well you’ll place in competitive specialities. Thank you for your response, it is much appreciated.

 

[IM2GI]

You are correct, I am primarily applying to MD programs and DOs as a backup. Again it is a backup. I’ve read enough threads to know that if you do well you’ll place in competitive specialities. Thank you for your response, it is much appreciated.

Which is what most people do, and all programs know this.

 

[Goro]

Do you think it will help DOs get into more competitive specialities and remove the lingering stigma?

It will be easier to predict the outcome of the 2020 presidential election than answer this question.

There's also a sticky on all things merger.

Which is what most people do, and all programs know this.
In addition, we don't take it personally, either.

 

[Adrenaline Junky]

It will be easier to predict the outcome of the 2020 presidential election than answer this question.

There's also a sticky on all things merger.

Which is what most people do, and all programs know this.
In addition, we don't take it personally, either.

Thanks didn’t see the sticky. I’ll be sure to check it out.

 

[Doctor Christmas]

Which is what most people do, and all programs know this.

Exactly. I guess my point is that it's frustrating when people make excuses and suggest that getting a DO was their preference. I think we all know that most people would prefer the MD degree. Suggesting that seems a little dishonest. And like you say, most programs know why DOs get DOs. Again some DOs are excellent physicians - but regardless the initial qualifications simply were not sufficiently competitive to get into MD schools.

 

[Adrenaline Junky]

Exactly. I guess my point is that it's frustrating when people make excuses and suggest that getting a DO was their preference. I think we all know that most people would prefer the MD degree. Suggesting that seems a little dishonest. And like you say, most programs know why DOs get DOs. Again some DOs are excellent physicians - but regardless the initial qualifications simply were not sufficiently competitive to get into MD schools.

Agreed, for me my decision will most likely depend on which program is cheapest and fastest for me, for example I may take a 7 year full ride DO program over a 8 year full tuition MD program. But still MD would be the preference.

 

[NuttyEngDude]

3. Some (but not all) previous AOA programs will start accepting MD's, with the potential for a few to completely jump ship and accept nothing but MD's.

True, I've seen two programs go from taking ~80% to ~20% DO's within the past few years. And as others have mentioned, I've seen some DO's this year get into better places than usual.

Exactly. I guess my point is that it's frustrating when people make excuses and suggest that getting a DO was their preference. I think we all know that most people would prefer the MD degree. Suggesting that seems a little dishonest. And like you say, most programs know why DOs get DOs. Again some DOs are excellent physicians - but regardless the initial qualifications simply were not sufficiently competitive to get into MD schools.

True, but it's a week correlation between MCAT performance, which is what separates most DO's and MD's, and med school/step performance. But it's better than nothing and besides, why is it frustrating what THEIR reasons are for getting a DO degree?