new grad job search

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

rainbowbun

New Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2022
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Hey everyone,

I am a current 4th year student starting to enter the job search scene.

I think I may want to do an internship/residency at some point but am currently very undecided so I thought it would be best to try and get a job at a GP practice with good mentorship/new grad program instead of applying to the match.

So anyways, that means that I am now starting to have meetings with recruiters and such and I feel very foreign to the whole process. I just wanted to know if anyone had any advice/resources that maybe they wish they had while searching for jobs as a new grad?

How do you feel about more corporate new grad programs vs a private hospital with good mentorship? Is it okay that I am not applying to the match?

I do have a meeting set up with my schools career advisors as well but I thought I would also ask here.


Thank you!
 
How do you feel about more corporate new grad programs vs a private hospital with good mentorship? Is it okay that I am not applying to the match?
What specialties are you considering? If you want to specialize, you pretty much have to do a rotating -> +/- specialty internship -> residency (that's a generalization...some specialties don't follow that exact path). If I was not sure what I wanted to do, I personally would lean towards doing a rotating and getting it done. If you work a few years in GP and then decide to pursue a specialty, it is really hard to make the choice to take a massive pay cut and drop in QOL that comes with pursuing a specialty.

For corp programs, I would be very aware of whatever contract you are signing. It's not uncommon to want to leave your first job after a year or so - sometimes these contracts lock you down for longer than that. I think a private hospital with good mentorship is very appropriate for a new grad, if you can find it.
 
From what I’ve seen, it’s harder for people who have been out in GP to break back in to the internship and residency space, both in the sense of actually being competitive/accepted and from a financial/mental adjustment standpoint. So if you think you might want to specialize, I would probably agree with PP and suggest that you consider trying for an internship now. It’s not impossible to go back later and get/complete one, but it’s a harder route. The further you get from graduation the harder it is to maintain relationships with specialists and get strong LORs, which are critical for residencies.

However, if you’re not planning on specializing, I don’t think internships are overly beneficial. A internship can be helpful to decide if you DO want to pursue specialty if you’re undecided, but if you know you want to do GP, I don’t recommend internships. While the skills you learn as an intern are valuable, the caseloads and knowledge base is completely different between academia or private practice er/specialty va GP. If your end goal is GP, find a practice with good mentorship and learn to be an awesome GP from a GP.
 
Last edited:
I don't know if there is any real data out there on percentage of people that go out into practice, decide they want to specialize, go back to do an internship to go down the specialty path, and are successful. I suspect all we have is our own anecdotes, and I also suspect it'll depend a bit on the particular specialty, how competitive it is, the programs you're looking at, how connected you stay during that time, etc etc. I know quite a few people in my field who went through a more winding path than what is standard, I've also worked with a couple rotating interns who were ER docs prior, and a few residents of various specialties who had been in practice before going back to do rotating --> residency. I also know several people who worked for a few years in practice and then came back to my alma mater for specialty internships or residencies after that without doing rotating internships (this might be something particular with that institution, I have no idea, but it has happened quite a few times!). But, that's all anecdotes and not real data!

I wouldn't personally put myself through a rotating internship if I wasn't sure I was going to need it, so in that way I'm a bit opposite of pp9 - rather than doing it if I think I might want to specialize eventually, I would only do it if I was sure. That decision I think depends on your overall tolerance for sunk costs vs risks and your personal life philosophies. And all of us are going to be a bit biased by our own life experiences - no one both does and does not do a rotating and gets to make that perfect outcome comparison! It is also still quite early in your fourth year, so there is time for you to get a better feel for where that meter sits for you while you're doing rotations - at this stage I would probably act as if you are going to enter the match so that you still can when the time comes if you want to. You can always (up until the withdrawal deadline) decide not to go through with it, but it's hard to get all your ducks in a row if you've been operating as if you're not going to and then change your mind after the application cycle opens.

As for the job search aspect, I would sit down and figure out what your own priorities are. Things like mentorship of course, but also location, type of medicine (small animal only? lots of surgery, a bit of surgery, no surgery? primarily wellness vs primarily sick cases vs a mix?), schedule, support staff, CE opportunities, etc. Having a sense of your own non-negotiables will help you filter through offers that might otherwise seem appealing on paper but aren’t the right fit for you. For the mentorship aspect, a lot of places will say they provide good mentorship because that's the buzzword for drawing in new grads, without really having any concrete evidence of what that means or even knowledge of how to be a good mentor. A formal program is great in that regard, though they often come with their own drawbacks as pp9 mentioned. Not having a formal program doesn't mean they won't provide good mentorship, but I would spend some time thinking about what you are looking for in that context and formulate questions to ask from there.

Off the top of my head some of those questions might be:
- whether there is a designated individual who would be your primary mentor
- if there is time blocked off for reviewing cases
- what your schedule will look like as a new grad and when you would transition to a more "typical" schedule - this can be in regards to how long your appointments are, how many sick vs well appointments you're expected to see in a day, when or if you would be scheduled to work alone
- what surgery mentorship looks like - for example, are you expected to come in on your day off to scrub into surgeries with a mentor because you're seeing appointments when the other doctors are doing surgery? or is time for that kind of experience built into your schedule?
- how mistakes/complications/client complaints are handled
Of course there are many more things you could ask based on what is most important to you, or some of the things i've listed here might not really matter that much to you.

When you're getting further into the job search and evaluating places it is great to be able to talk to other associates. People who started there as new grads and have stayed for a few years are extra great to talk to if they exist. Beware of places that have a revolving door of new grads.

These are all things I wish I had been able to consider more heavily when I was looking for a GP job. Specific circumstances constrained my ability to be picky in that regard, but it's all stuff I thought about in the three years I worked in that setting!

I won't get into reviewing and negotiating contracts here because that is a whole other discussion and this post is already horrendously long :laugh:
 
DON'T use a recruiter! They take a cut of the salary offered so the only people using a recruiter for a new grads are the most desperate/worst job options. They usually have the worst candidates who can't get a job on their own. Look through job ads and apply directly. Find out why they are looking- are they a new grad mill and no one stays there because they don't really offer mentoring? Or are they looking to grow or a long term vet just moved away? If you're going with a corporate job, talk to people who graduated from your vet school who worked there to make sure it's not a bad situation. High signing bonuses are usually a red flag that they are desperate/no one wants to stay there. Beware things like "clawback" clauses that say if you leave before 2 or 3 years you have to pay back the signing bonus. Those are golden handcuffs. Some corporations have recently started meeting with new grads after 6 months and if they aren't meeting production goals, lowering their base salary. So might be good to inquire how much other vets at the practice are producing to make sure the base salary is a reasonable goal.
 
Most important thing for me is that it is a multi-doctor practice. As in they have a long term stable group of full and part time associates of variable tenures (between new grad and 25 yrs, who have been there for years) so that there are always 2 docs at fringe hours, and 3-5 during mid day of heavy weekdays. And no… “regular relief” doesn’t count. That will ensure that you have enough docs around to help mentor you with whatever you need. One caveat is surgery and dentistry. What is their plan to get you onboarded - there needs to be a plan for that. Will you have a full surgery day from the beginning? Who will be able to help you and at what capacity? How will you grow your repertoire and skillset? And similarly, what about ultrasound? That is another thing that takes more than a casual chat/consult with another doctor to grow your skills.

And what is really helpful is if you have enough support staff so that you are always the bottleneck. Early on, that’s really helpful because the techs can guide you through the flow of the day and prop you up. Once you don’t need to be propped up, that level of support will allow you to produce maximally.

Spend time at the clinic and look critically at the scheduling software. How are all of the doctors booked? How full are their schedules and what is their daily caseload? Is there enough business to go around if you got added in? Conversely, if it looks super full, do they save same day sick slots? What happens when the schedule is completely booked and a sick patient calls? Do doctors have a say in whether that case gets seen? Are there adequate lunches and catchup slots in the schedule? Do the doctors all leave on time? Do they take lunch?

Also, what is the clinic culture? Is it professional where everyone treats each other with respect as colleagues? Or is it a cliquey “we are like family” vibe (and a dysfunctional one at that), to cover up for the lack of professionalism? Is there a management team that is respected by the whole team and trusted to be fair and competent?
 
Top