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New here. Need some advice please.

Discussion in 'Pre-Pharmacy' started by 2TIM4:7, May 15, 2007.

  1. 2TIM4:7

    2TIM4:7 Member

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    Hey all,

    My (delusional) sister-in-law is interested in pharmacy at UIC and MWU and here are her current stats:

    Cum GPA 2.24
    Math/Science GPA 1.73
    Pre-Pharm GPA 1.73 < X < 2.24
    Bad at standardized testing: low SAT, low ACT, etc.

    Is there an alternate universe where she could make this happen? I've told her it's an impossibility, but yet denial is a tough mental state to change.

    Are there any people out there who can tell her anything else? any words (whether serious, ridiculous, sarcastic) would be appreciated. Thanks.
     
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  3. jg12

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    :scared: Uhhh...I suppose it depends on how many units she has completed. I wouldn't say it's impossible, but it sure would be an uphill battle.
     
  4. KARM12

    KARM12 Super Member

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    Both UIC and MWU have minimum GPA's you must meet...I think it is 2.75, at least 2.5, for both schools.
     
  5. Jack555

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    Its possible. Say she has been in college only 2 years. If she could get a 3.5 gpa for another 2 or 3 years her gpa would shoot up. She'd have to start trying and trying hard though. If she nailed a 3.0 gpa and got a pharm tech job for a year she might just be able to do it.
     
  6. 2TIM4:7

    2TIM4:7 Member

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    she's already completed 53 credit hours! i've already calculated what her gpa will be if she were to have 65 credit hours of A's: 3.2. problem is that she has never even come close to being a straight A student let alone a straight B student.

    anyone had any experience with a person like this? this is quite frustrating to say the least.
     
  7. jg12

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    How serious is she about pursuing pharmacy as a career?

    I'd say she'd need at least 40+ more units of A's (~3.0 gpa), great PCAT, awesome EC's/LOR's, and pharmacy experience. Oh and apply early to many, many schools.
     
  8. war485

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    Sorry to say, but she's doomed if she applies. There are minimum GPAs in order to even proceed to admissions. Maybe there's a different field of study that's more appropriate for her.
     
  9. 2TIM4:7

    2TIM4:7 Member

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    this is what i was hinting at with my OP. all of us have been trying to persuade her to pursue other career paths. (and btw, she says she is serious about pharmacy, but her actions tell a different story.)
     
  10. dastud85

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    If she really wants to do pharmacy I would tell her to go to a community college and start ALL OVER. She should retake all the classes and start from scratch. Also, if she does apply to pharmacy school, she should not list the school at which she currently is in today as a school she went to. She should only have the transcripts from community college sent to pharm school. This way, that ****ED UP gpa wont be seen.
     
  11. dastud85

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    P.S. It doesnt look like ur sister is serious for pharmacy school with a GPA like that after TWO YEARS??? Sheesh.
     
  12. abr

    abr

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    It sounds like she is irresponsible.. Even if you do not begin with a lot of knowledge, if you put in time and work, you will be able to do fairly well in most of your classes.. People going in the medical industry NEED to be responsible..
    If this is what she REALLY, TRULY wants to do, you would think she would put in more effort. Maybe she's into pharmacy for the wrong reasons.
     
  13. 2TIM4:7

    2TIM4:7 Member

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    duh! :rolleyes: this is not news to me. maybe you can talk some sense into her stubborn, deluded mind. as for me, i'm through talking about this with her...she's 20 but she acts more like my 4 yr old niece.
     
  14. KellyBean

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    Why does she want to be a pharmacist? Is she currently working in the pharmacy or is there someone in the family that is bringing home the big bucks?
     
  15. brasilia01

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    Um, sorry but you can't do this. PharmCAS and most schools require that you report ALL grades. Not reporting ALL grades is dishonest and cheating. I hope you did not do this. From what I have heard from other posters, the schools can find out. Just be honest and fair, tell her to get her grades up and to do better in school.
     
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  17. eelo

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    Okay..... you've done what you can. Why are you continuing to beat yourself up with this? You've told her the obvious, you've gotten the obvious confirmed in here. If she chooses to believe that, great. if not, so what? It's no skin off your teeth. The cost of this lesson to her will be the expense of submitting applications and taking the PCAT. She can't "will" a school into accepting her; I don't understand why you're so dead-set on forcing her to see things your way.

    She'll figure it out, eventually. People should have the right to fail on their own terms, on their own journey.

    Now, if you tell me that you're planning on paying her application fees because she's so insistent and you can't get her to understand differently, that's a whole different tune, and I'd say the one who needs to learn the lesson here is not her.
     
  18. 2TIM4:7

    2TIM4:7 Member

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    me learning a lesson?

    regardless of how irresponsible she is, she is still family. i hate to see family go through unnecessary difficulties and will do many things to avoid this. i'm assuming you do not have children otherwise you'd probably understand where i'm coming from. (would you want your child to fail regardless if it was on their terms or not?!) if you had the opportunity to prevent them from failing, i'm sure you'd act on it.

    you may have a different family mentality than i do. that may explain the differences in our views on this matter.

    thank you all for your responses. she is finally beginning to understand that pharmacy is not for her.
     
  19. eelo

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    Ah, I see. You're consciously choosing to enable her dysfunction by continuing to support a dream of hers that you believe is unrealistic. That's awfully nice of you, because as long as you're willing to carry the torch of responsibility for this, she doesn't have to.

    Make no assumptions about how many children I may or may not have, or about the state of my family. My family situation is not the subject of this thread. Nice attempt at deflection, though.

    For the record- you come to a public forum asking for advice and guidance, you're going to get it, in all forms. some forms may not be pretty and may not be what you want to hear, but they're no less valid.
     
  20. LowGPAHighPCAT

    LowGPAHighPCAT Use the Schwartz!

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    I've not had time to read all of the posts in this thread so please forgive me if anything I write has already been mentioned.

    You're sister is not dead in the water....yet. I actually had a similar GPA to hers at about the same point of school. Actually I didn't get "grown up" enough to fully appreciate school until about 80 hours in. Once I did, I turned in about a 3.75 GPA over my final hours (which are the toughest). I'm not in pharmacy school yet, I'm still waiting to hear back from the school that I applied to. However I did get an interview and that is the biggest hurdle to get past. My point is this: schools realize that not everybody matures at the same rate. They would much rather see somebody whose grades trend sharply upward than somebody whose grades trend sharply downward.

    You mentioned that she doesn't take standardized tests very well. That needs to change. Pharmacy schools have a test that parallels the MCAT for medical school; it's called the PCAT. It's fairly easy (at least compared to the MCAT) but it needs to be taken seriously. Students who take it are given a percentile ranking based on the scores of the other students who took it. Therefore, somebody who gets a 95 did very well (better than 95% of the other test takers) while somebody who gets a 30 may be in trouble. If she can get her GPA up and keep it there, it will show that she has matured. If she can do well on the PCAT, it will show that she has the raw intelligence needed to handle the material that pharmacy school presents.

    Sit her down and talk to her about this. Like I said, she's not dead yet, but she will be if she doesn't get her rear in gear. Refer her to this website - there are a lot of people on here who can share their stories and offer advice that may steer her in the right direction. Keep being supportive, but don't be afraid to kick her in the a** every now and again if she needs it. Good Luck!
     
  21. StringTheorist

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    No offense to your sister, but academically, if your math and science GPA is BELOW A C AVERAGE...don't even bother. Pharmacy schools will look at her application like she's a mad woman, maybe even have a laugh between them. People are applying with 3.6 avergae science GPAs, and pharmacy school is getting more and more difficult to get accepted to each year. If she wants to apply to (how do I say this carefully....) a "less competitive" pharmacy school, who knows, she may have a small shot. But I would say start over, if she is serious.:thumbdown:
     
  22. LECOMorBUST

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    Personally, I do not believe the school would even know the application existed. I suspect it would likely be "filtered" out long before a real set of eyes would be laid on the application. Consider this, why would they waste resources (labor, time, and money) on viewing non-competitive applicants. These schools are all "educational institutions", but at the same time they are businesses concerned with efficiency and budgets.

    It is possible to be accepted even with the numbers in the original post, but we are now talking about politics and the right connections/relations.
    Just my personal thoughts.
     
  23. binghamkid

    Moderator Emeritus

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    Your sister-in-law shouldn't give up hope for a pharmacy school just because her GPA isn't up to par. As mentioned above, if she can get her GPA above 2.75 (3.0 would be better) before applying, then she has a DEFINITE shot. (I will vouch for that from personal experience). That being said, she will probably need to enroll in a masters program for two years. A masters program has a few benefits: 1) it will really test her commitment to pharmacy 2) it will demonstrate to the ADCOMs that she really can achieve academically 3) a masters program usually is smaller and allows for better accountability on the students' part, resulting in better scores. 4) Master degrees are a good asset to have...you can get them in almost any field, but good ones to explore would be a masters in public health or healthcare management. I know some state schools have pretty lenient requirements for masters programs.

    About the subject about the PCAT score, a stellar PCAT score can sometimes make up for a poor GPA (again from experience). PCAT scores can be raised through practice and dedication (how else do those prep courses make money) If your sister-in-law is willing to practice for months on end, then she has a shot.

    That being said, she will also need very good extracurriculars... it would be a good idea to have her explore internships or volunteer work at a local pharmacy so that she gets a good look at the profession, as well as having something to write down on her future application. The more involved she gets in her extracurriculars, the more she will be able to write and the better letters of recommendation she will be able to get.

    And for those of you who say it's impossible to make it happen, I'm living proof that it is possible. There was a point in time (unfortunately, for me), when my GPA was pretty much around those marks (*shudder i remember those days*) But I buckled down, worked hard, and got my GPA up to a 2.65. Normally that wouldn't get most students into pharmacy school, but luckily I had my PCAT score for my saving grace. I'll be a P1 this fall at UMB. So you never know. Nothing is impossible in this world. GPA doesn't determine how well you'll do in pharmacy school nor in your career path. So kindly do not put down or discourage those who are down. Because they're not out of the game until they quit. That's why people reapply again and again, because they're hoping to get in. They could use our support. Thank you =)
     
  24. LowGPAHighPCAT

    LowGPAHighPCAT Use the Schwartz!

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    Right on!
     
  25. sakigt

    sakigt Junior Member

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    Get her to get a job as a Pharm Tech fro now to see what shes getting into.
     
  26. redstar33309

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    she can do it. she will have to pay though. All the classes that got d's f's or c's have to be taken over or she has to take higher classes to show her true potential. You or someone will have to be on her case everyday to keep her on the right track
     
  27. DOPharmMD

    DOPharmMD Aspiring PharmD

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    I always wondered if someone passes a class, how he/she can retake it. For example, at my school, once you get a C you're not allowed to repeat. But I was in a unique situation when I got a C for regular physics. The school offered two level of difficulty physics. One regular and the other, calculus based physics. Because the two courses are different, I was able to take calculus based physics and make A. I had a C for organic chemistry I; I'm guessing I'm stuck with it. I'll just have to do better in Organic II. A friend of mine had C for organic I and had 'A' for organic II; she is heading to UF this fall!! In my state, UF and FAMU, both require physics. It was necessary for me to take physics/calculus to prove to UF, especially, that I can handle the curriculum. Now I'm looking forward to physics II. To the OP, if she believes in herself, she can do well and she's only 20. I was not that good in math, but I believed in myself and never shy away from solving problems. Today, I'm tutoring math, calculus I, physics. Self-motivation is crucial and is an added necessity for success.

    PharmD Candidate 2008 (UF, Nova, PBA)
     
  28. jessicaholland1

    jessicaholland1 Junior Member

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    what school do you go to? i'm just curious b/c i live in florida and am applying to all those schools. I've never heard of not being able to repeat a "C" class...hmm weird. At my college you can take anything was many times as you want (you only get credit once though and all the grades are averaged). If you really think the C will hurt you (or if you dont get an A in orgoII), I would re-take it at another school over the summer or somethin.
     
  29. triumphbr

    triumphbr Yeah I'm accepted.

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    Just give her encouragement to do better and stand back out of the way.

    The first class I took in college they did that whole "Stand up and tell everybody about yourself and what you want to do." thing and I kid you not half the class were future pharmacist. At the time I only knew it was something I thought sounded interesting and all of those people saying thats what they wanted nearly turned me against it. If that many people were going into it... how good could the job outlook really be?

    I think I said I was just in college to avoid having a real job or something.

    It was interesting to watch the number dwindle down to virtually nothing over 2-3 semesters.

    Anyway, long story short. Let her do what she wants to do. You never know maybe she turns it around. If she doesn't.. Well it's not like she is alone in having a change of plans at a later date.
     
  30. firstgeneration

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    what school are UIC and MWU??? sorry I don't quite know the abbrevations yet.
     
  31. firstgeneration

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    Well, congrats on getting into pharmacy school. Thanks for the input, I am glad that there's is still chances for the not so perfect students. Could you give me a little advise as to what PCAT prep course helped you???maybe some suggestions because I would be interested in getting some suggestions so that I can improve my chances of getting in.
     
  32. Bhavesh

    Bhavesh Member

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    I have a sister like that.

    You can tell her over and over what the truth of the matter is, but she still won't learn it the easy way. She either has to learn by example (by seeing someone close in her family succeed w'out complaining, thus being a good role model), or applying w' all her heart and failing, only to figure out that she needs to do what everyone else mentioned above.

    She's old enough to make her own mistakes and learn it on her own. The more you keep "saving her" through advising and letting her be a brat, the longer this immature behavior will last.

    /lecture...sorry...that was easy for me...I just envisioned talking to my parents about my sister
     
  33. Madnezz

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    If I were her I'd try to get as much actual Pharmacy experience as I could get and study a lot for the PCAT. Unlike the SATs, the PCAT is mostly a test on things you can study for.

    In terms of her grades there's two things I would do. First, I would use ratemyprofessors and look up every professor before taking his/her class, ensuring I'm not taking a class where the average grade is a C-.

    Second, I would also try doubling my major into something that's easier at her school. For example, a classics major was an easy major at my school. It may take longer to graduate but at least her GPA would be averaged between two majors at most schools that calculate her GPA. I never heard of school's preferring one major over another and double major looks better anyways.
     
  34. rxforlife2004

    rxforlife2004 Banned
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    She won't get in....
     
  35. rthakker1

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    My stats

    Gpa 2.67
    Graduating with a bachelors degree in biology this fall
    31/2 years of pharmacy experience
    Volunteered in a hospital pharmacy for few weeks
    Haven't taken PCATS
    any advice for me????
     
  36. cystapharm

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    i think its misleading that pharmacy schools say that GPA of 2.5 will be considered for admission when they hardly accept anyone with that GPA. I used to study just to pass and get Cs because I thought I would be qualified. One D and 3 Cs later I finally realized the truth but the damage has already been done sadly. My GPA is only 3.08 now, PharmCAS is a b*tch and I feel so miserable. I know how you guys feel!

    :)
     
  37. Hels2007

    Hels2007 I bite
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    The only way for her to get admission would be to get fantasting letters of recommendation and personal statement, and have incredible communication skills. However, based on the numbers you have posted, she is unlikely to make it this far. The first step in admissions process (and schools get hundreds to thousands of applications each year) is sorting out those who might get invited to the interviews from those who aren't. Regardless of how wonderful everything else about her might be, the rest of her paperwork is unlikely to even be looked at. It's usually GPA and PCAT score that get looked at first, and if they are significantly below a pre-determined level (between 3.0 and 3.5 minimum usually) they get tossed without further review. There simply isn't time and manpower to read in detail all the pages of every application. I guess the only option would be applying to schools with small number of applicants, such as newly opening schools, or schools in remote locations (of course, those generally take the locals only), or something like that, where admissions staff is more likely to look at the entire application. I would be looking for a good explanation of why her grades are so lousy, though, when reading her application.
     
  38. bootymuncher

    bootymuncher New Member

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    Having applied to both UIC and Midwestern and known alot of people who also applied with me this year, she most likely will not get into UIC and at Midwestern she might have a chance if she applies really early in August/September and works hard at getting A's and pharmacy related ECs. Why don't you tell her to apply to SIU and Chicago State University which at both new programs (if she only wants to consider in-state schools)?
     

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