New intern: any point for the current DSM?

[PistolPete]

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Hi All,

Any point for a new psych intern to get a spiral-bound DSM-IV given that the new version is due out next May? Any other text recommendations?

 

[dl2dp2]

Hi All,

Any point for a new psych intern to get a spiral-bound DSM-IV given that the new version is due out next May? Any other text recommendations?

The small pocket version is actually quite useful. DSM-IV will not come out until late next year, and the criteria for main inpatient rotations are not changing that much, and they are available online as well. Other useful handbooks include the MGH handbook and "on-call psychiatry", although I in the end never used the latter.

 

[digitlnoize]

I was asking some attendings about this, and a couple of them, who were around for the last major transition, said that learning the old way, THEN the new way, have them a great perspective on how the diseases are defined and how malleable those definitions are. All felt they were better for it.

 

[nitemagi]

I was asking some attendings about this, and a couple of them, who were around for the last major transition, said that learning the old way, THEN the new way, have them a great perspective on how the diseases are defined and how malleable those definitions are. All felt they were better for it.

Wholly agree. The more perspectives you can integrate on an illness, the better, IMHO. DSM, ICD-9 (blue book), modern research, psychodynamic formulations, etc. All useful. I'd learn IV because most of the system will be using this as a point of reference for years to come, and it's good to be able to understand that.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Don't get too caught up in the DSM. Instead, make a diagnosis based upon the patient.

 

[vistaril]

Hi All,

Any point for a new psych intern to get a spiral-bound DSM-IV given that the new version is due out next May? Any other text recommendations?

if you're an intern, much more useful than reading/memorizing the dsm(regardless of when the new one comes out) is reading in general......read a good current pharm book. Read some current textbooks that actually teach you something about psychiatry. Read lots of current review articles that best summarize current standards of care.

For god sakes....do those things instead of trying to memorize how many criteria you need in a so many month setting in one area for whatever.......

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Steal a dust-covered copy from one of your attendings. 😉

But (OMG, am I possibly agreeing with Dr V? 😱) more important to identify problems and target symptoms and learn to develop a biopsychosocial formulation than to work too hard at plugging those observations into a checklist diagnostic framework.

 

[billypilgrim37]

I haven't spent more than 15 minutes with a paper copy of dsm in four years. There are lots of good resources online.

 

[whopper]

Well we're hitting that phase where if you're a resident, it's useful to have one but it'll be outdated within a relatively short period of time. Like was mentioned, I would just go online behavenet.com has the DSM online.

 

[DOC PENGUIN]

I was asking some attendings about this, and a couple of them, who were around for the last major transition, said that learning the old way, THEN the new way, have them a great perspective on how the diseases are defined and how malleable those definitions are. All felt they were better for it.

Problem with the DSM is that some dieseases are kept for monetary purposes, as well as the voting of dieseases. Still, I cant wait for DSM-6 to come out with the brain scans and biological science.

 

[splik]

Problem with the DSM is that some dieseases are kept for monetary purposes, as well as the voting of dieseases. Still, I cant wait for DSM-6 to come out with the brain scans and biological science.

awww...so young, so naive!

 

[splik]

pdfs of the previous editions of the DSM, including DSM-IV (not the text revision but there are few differences, most notably the removal of the need for impairment in functioning for the dx of tourette's disorder) are available on the APA website. at least they were..

The DCR-10 (the operationalized criteria for the ICD-10) are also available. It is well worth comparing the ICD with the DSM as there are some major differences (e.g. the definition of hypomania in ICD would be mania in DSM; recurrent depressions with hypomania would count as depression in ICD and bipolar II in DSM; schizophrenia requires 6 months of symptoms in DSM and only 1 month in ICD; schneider's first rank symptoms pretty much define ICD-10 schizophrenia, but hardly feature at all in DSM-IV schizophrenia; ICD-10 depression severity is based on number of symptoms, DSM depression severity of degree of impairment; conversion disorder is a dissociative disorder in ICD, not a somatoform disorder; in ICD-10 generalized anxiety disorder is a fear-based (autonomic) diagnosis, in DSM GAD is a worry based (cognitive) diagnosis etc etc...

 

[beezley]

Depends on how you like to learn. I think a pocket one could be useful.

 

[kugel]

try the attached cards from PsychSign. certainly not the DSM, but contains the key elements of dx for the major Axis I disorders and key differences of Pers Disorders. weighs a lot less than DSM. There're also some good psych and neuro cards available on Amazon.

 

[notdeadyet]

Most people see the DSM as limited to the diagnostic criteria for a bunch of mental illnesses. That's a little reductionist.

If you actually look through the DSM (not one of the abbreviated versions), there is some good material in there. Particularly when you're just starting out.

I'm not one that thinks it's the end-all be-all, but it's not just the call out boxes of diagnostics.

 

[PistolPete]

Kugel, thank you so much for those amazing cards, much appreciated!

 

[kugel]

Kugel, thank you so much for those amazing cards, much appreciated!

Feel free to distribute. Please encourage your peers to modify, elaborate, edit and send me the results.