New MCAT Science easier than DAT?

[A Pre-dent]

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[pgex2t]

I had a few friends take both the new MCAT and the DAT (for what reason, I really don't know). The general consensus was that the DAT was more memorization heavy than the MCAT. Scores are based on percentiles, so it might be better to say that those who do well on the MCAT may have different test taking strengths than those who do well on the DAT.

 

[JLT223]

Not even a chance. The MCAT (and I know this by taking it first hand) is passage utilization more than anything. You can study everything under the sun and BOMB the MCAT. It's much more critical thinking based. The addition of biochem is also overkill and the passages often include so much terminology that is used to specifically throw off the test taker. The verbal reasoning or whatever the new section is called is not anything like the one on the DAT; it's all inference based and tone based. Not to mention all the physics you need to know for what, 10 questions? The DAT is easier than the MCAT. Anyone else saying otherwise is just wrong.

 

[Graffix]

I think the DAT is overdue for an overhaul because most of it is recall. There is not very much critical thinking on the DAT compared to the MCAT. I initially thought that the "DAT is just the 'dental MCAT'" but its very different and significantly more challenging in some aspects. Additionally, Ochem on the new mcat is only 15 percent of a 25 percent section. To add fuel to the fire, the ochem questions on the MCAT require much more application. The DAT ochem questions are more like "remember this reaction mech?" I think the hardest sections on the MCAT are the CARS- something that DAT has very very little of. Edit: source: http://www.aucmed.edu/admissions/mcat-exam/2015-mcat-detailed-look.aspx

 

[JLT223]

I think the DAT is overdue for an overhaul because most of it is recall. There is not very much critical thinking on the DAT compared to the MCAT. I initially thought that the "DAT is just the 'dental MCAT'" but its very different and significantly more challenging in some aspects. Additionally, Ochem on the new mcat is only 15 percent of a 25 percent section. To add fuel to the fire, the ochem questions on the MCAT require much more application. The DAT ochem questions are more like "remember this reaction mech?" I think the hardest sections on the MCAT are the CARS- something that DAT has very very little of.

CARS....that's the name. The worst.

 

[FeralisExtremum]

In terms of difficulty, the DAT is a joke compared to the MCAT.

 

[PocketRocket]

I think the DAT should have a physics section

 

[Advance]

I think the DAT should have a physics section

Me too! (Easy to say when I don't have to take it again,)

 

[fogorvostan]

In terms of difficulty, the DAT is a joke compared to the MCAT.

For real. I studied less for less than 3 weeks on the DAT and still managed to pull a 20. I couldn't even imagine the catastrophic failure that would happen if I tried to take the MCAT after only a few weeks of prep.

 

[738177]

Not even a chance. The MCAT (and I know this by taking it first hand) is passage utilization more than anything. You can study everything under the sun and BOMB the MCAT. It's much more critical thinking based. The addition of biochem is also overkill and the passages often include so much terminology that is used to specifically throw off the test taker. The verbal reasoning or whatever the new section is called is not anything like the one on the DAT; it's all inference based and tone based. Not to mention all the physics you need to know for what, 10 questions? The DAT is easier than the MCAT. Anyone else saying otherwise is just wrong.

I took both and this is essentially what it boils down to. You can study for months and memorize thousand different topics, and still fail the MCAT miserably. Even the non-passage based questions on the MCAT ("discretes") were harder than the DAT.
There's no point arguing about this really. Even if the DAT covered more topics, MCAT would still be harder just due to the nature of the test. It's just how it is. I have friends that ended up going to the Caribbean just because they couldn't beat the MCAT Verbal.

 

[zEkii]

I think it is comparing oranges to apples. DAT tests different materials than what the MCAT does(Like the PAT... a subject that isn't taught in regular school systems). If you want to compare both of them, compare to the amount of students who take the MCAT vs DAT, that is probably the only relative comparison of the two.

PS: Pound for Pound, the MCAT is more comprehensive and exhausting than the DAT.. in my opinion.

 

[JLT223]

Nobody mentioned the fact the 2015 exam is now 7.5 hours long which is almost double that of the DAT.

 

[Scumbag_Steve]

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[Incis0r]

I want the PAT gone. A dentist and I tried doing some Keyholes and TFE together, and we couldn't get through even five of them over a 10 minute break. Useless section.

Oh, and yeah, DAT way easier than MCAT. I feel for my pre-med friends. MCAT: the first in a long series of extremely stressful exams. If you want to be a general dentist, you only truly need just Part 1 and Part 2. You can get licensure by doing an AEGD/GPR in multiple states (NY requires it, CT/CA allow it, etc.) so the need for NERB/WREB/SRTA is falling.

 

[JLT223]

I wish we did have to take the MCAT so people wouldn't be able to bitch (quite legitimately btw) about how much easier the DAT is than the MCAT.

I feel like it'd be a good way to ensure people who are good at critical thinking rather than rote memorization matriculate to dental school. At the very least it'd be a step in the right direction.

NEVER WISH THAT. Seriously, it was the most brutal thing I've ever endured. However, I agree they should add some critical thinking to the DAT because there really isn't any.

 

[super frank]

I want the PAT gone. A dentist and I tried doing some Keyholes and TFE together, and we couldn't get through even five of them over a 10 minute break. Useless section.

Oh, and yeah, DAT way easier than MCAT. I feel for my pre-med friends. MCAT: the first in a long series of extremely stressful exams. If you want to be a general dentist, you only truly need just Part 1 and Part 2. You can get licensure by doing an AEGD/GPR in multiple states (NY requires it, CT/CA allow it, etc.) so the need for NERB/WREB/SRTA is falling.

PAT is an easy way to boost your application though...

edit: brain fart

 

[Incis0r]

PAT is an easy way to boost your AA though...

It was my lowest score

 

[plusalpha]

PAT is an easy way to boost your AA though...

Uhh...is PAT calculated as part of the AA score...?

 

[super frank]

Uhh...is PAT calculated as part of the AA score...?

Whoops, silly me.

 

[Incis0r]

Whoops, silly me.

If it doesn't even help with AA, let's repeal it! No more PAT!

I do feel bad for our Canadian friends....they have to do an entire soap-carving section! Jeez, that's intense.

 

[Scumbag_Steve]

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[Advance]

Idk I'm sort of a masochist when it comes to challenging myself I'd like to see it. Yeah it'd be tough but if med kids can do it we should too, they put their pants on the same way as we do, a variation of what my high school football coach would say when we were playing against a better team that week

It's just an entrance exam. If there is any test they should make more difficult its NDBE.

 

[JLT223]

And yet we have people bombing the DAT.

Because they don't study enough or know how to properly study for it.

 

[JLT223]

The same can arguably be said for the MCAT.

All im saying is one can study as much as they want and bomb the mcat because it is passage utilization. It's kind of hard to do the same on the DAT given that it's just questions and answers, no fact digging/deciphering.

 

[super frank]

And yet we have people bombing the DAT.

Kaplan....

 

[GypsyHummus]

I took a practice mcat without studying and scored in the 15th percentile. I took a practice DAT without studying and scored a 17.

There is no comparison. The mcat is the single hardest test someone in a non professional school has to take. DAT is difficult, don't get me wrong, but that's like comparing a coyote to a bear attack. Coyotes are annoying and somewhat dangerous, but it's fairly manageable. Bear attack not so much.

 

[Incis0r]

I wish we did have to take the MCAT so people wouldn't be able to bitch (quite legitimately btw) about how much easier the DAT is than the MCAT.

I feel like it'd be a good way to ensure people who are good at critical thinking rather than rote memorization matriculate to dental school. At the very least it'd be a step in the right direction.

NEVER WISH THAT. Seriously, it was the most brutal thing I've ever endured.

Idk I'm sort of a masochist when it comes to challenging myself I'd like to see it. Yeah it'd be tough but if med kids can do it we should too, they put their pants on the same way as we do, a variation of what my high school football coach would say when we were playing against a better team that week

Ok, I thought about it, and I have a compromise. We need to reward hard work and critical thinking without penalizing other students.

Let's create two tiers of dental schools.

Tier 1 will be schools that are low-cost (average total cost $200K). Tier 2 schools will be schools that are high-cost (average total cost $400K).

Students who demonstrate their desire to work hard and who have the ability to think critically would need to prove those attributes by taking the MCAT, and in exchange, if they did well, they'd be rewarded with an acceptance to a low-cost school.

Students who didn't want to do the MCAT wouldn't have to, and they could proceed with the higher cost/normal level school.

This way, you're not penalizing everyone/making people take the MCAT if they don't want to, but you are rewarding those who go the extra mile.

Also, to ensure that everyone has an equal playing field, everyone will get access to MCAT prep books for free.

 

[sumin5924]

Ok, I thought about it, and I have a compromise. We need to reward hard work and critical thinking without penalizing other students.

Let's create two tiers of dental schools.

Tier 1 will be schools that are low-cost (average total cost $200K). Tier 2 schools will be schools that are high-cost (average total cost $400K).

Students who demonstrate their desire to work hard and who have the ability to think critically would need to prove those attributes by taking the MCAT, and in exchange, if they did well, they'd be rewarded with an acceptance to a low-cost school.

Students who didn't want to do the MCAT wouldn't have to, and they could proceed with the higher cost/normal level school.

This way, you're not penalizing everyone/making people take the MCAT if they don't want to, but you are rewarding those who go the extra mile.

Also, to ensure that everyone has an equal playing field, everyone will get access to MCAT prep books for free.

"We make the terror"

FU16

 

[darklordzz]

If the DAT Biology emphasized physiology moreso than plant biology, that would be a start. I love plants, but they serve little to no relevance for DAT or dental school. If I make it through dental school, I do plan on decorating my office with beautiful flowers.

 

[Scumbag_Steve]

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[Incis0r]

FU16

 

[hellofuturedentists]

Ok, I thought about it, and I have a compromise. We need to reward hard work and critical thinking without penalizing other students.

Let's create two tiers of dental schools.

Tier 1 will be schools that are low-cost (average total cost $200K). Tier 2 schools will be schools that are high-cost (average total cost $400K).

Students who demonstrate their desire to work hard and who have the ability to think critically would need to prove those attributes by taking the MCAT, and in exchange, if they did well, they'd be rewarded with an acceptance to a low-cost school.

Students who didn't want to do the MCAT wouldn't have to, and they could proceed with the higher cost/normal level school.

This way, you're not penalizing everyone/making people take the MCAT if they don't want to, but you are rewarding those who go the extra mile.

Also, to ensure that everyone has an equal playing field, everyone will get access to MCAT prep books for free.

Lol what? That's so complicated. Hard work, for the most part, is already rewarded with acceptances to low-cost schools

 

[DentalLonghorn2014]

I pray that the ADA doesn't read this post 'til after I kick the crud out of the DAT.

 

[Hannah Banana]

I want the PAT gone. A dentist and I tried doing some Keyholes and TFE together, and we couldn't get through even five of them over a 10 minute break. Useless section.

I thought so too at first but now in dental school, I can totally see how useful it is to have good visual imagination (? sorry I don't know how to call it). It makes materials easier to understand.

 

[lwergod]

I think the DAT should have a physics section

I agree, would love to have physics on the DAT.

 

[lwergod]

@Stanelz, keep in mind, if you were focused on the DAT, then you're more likely to score relatively better on it than the MCAT. Percentiles alone is not a good metric in determining difficulty, it only tells you how well you did compared to others. I do agree though, the new MCAT seems much harder.

tbh though, I would not be surprised if the DAT gets a rework in the next decade, it seems/feels antiquated.

 

[dent_wannabe]

I took both too. The verbal section of the MCAT was a killer for me (I could not even get the 50th percentile on it), whereas RC was one of my highest section scores on the DAT.

 

[sobertiger]

Yes, the MCAT is harder. But at the end of the day, the DAT is doing its job as a standardized exam and doesn't need to be overhauled.

 

[ProspectivePostPreDent]

All im saying is one can study as much as they want and bomb the mcat because it is passage utilization. It's kind of hard to do the same on the DAT given that it's just questions and answers, no fact digging/deciphering.

This mythology surrounding the MCAT reminds me of the Chuck Norris memes.

- it's the only test in the world where studying doesn't improve your score. Calvinists believe that MCAT results were actually preordained by our Maker in the first moments of the universe's existence.
- one bold premed attempted to take on the beast with only 3 weeks' prep and (as you know from above) her punishment was not a low score; her mind was permanently erased, and she now lives as a vegetable, only able to faintly detect her mother gently sobbing over her body
- right after he was offered a fields medal for proving the poincare conjecture on 3-manifold/glome homeomorphism, Grigori Perelman attempted the MCAT. He got a 502 and, choking back bitter tears, went to Google "DO or podiatry"
- honestly, this whole space travel thing would've been figured out by now if, instead of non-MCAT taking troglodytes like Hawking and Musk flinging poo at the wall, we had some random kid who got into any MD program leading the charge.
"So, you're aiming for family med from University of Nebraska, huh? Well let's see.. that's about what we expect from a 510 MCAT, which on this conversion chart, puts you somewhere between Max Planck and Albert Einstein."
"Oh, out of curiosity, why aren't you recruiting from the 520+ students at Hopkins and Stanford?"
"We tried our best, but when attempting to establish contact with the chosen ones, we were unable to properly convey the meaning of our primitive thoughts to their enlightened ears. But a 510 places you above the entire rest of humanity, most of whom would die in the first minute of the MCAT. So welcome to the Mars team!"




Okay, I know that's laying it on thick, but the talk gets so over the top at times.

If you studied hard and with adequate time for the MCAT and "bombed", then you studied wrong. Period. Yes, the passages produce more randomness than the factual questions, but the vast majority of takers come in with a general idea of a score range to expect based on practice tests.

There are average minds in MD programs. Even some slightly slow people who work hard. Yes, it's a sharp pool on average and a tough test, but my goodness... the hyperbole.