New MSAR is Online

[CyberMaxx]

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I didn't see this thread yet in the Pre-Medical Allopathic Forum (the Nontrads beat us to it!), but just wanted to let everyone know the new MSAR is available online. I just looked at the schools I'm planning on applying to, but as I'm sure you can imagine the statistics at many schools got more competitive - even if by very small margins. A few schools also posted significantly less competitive statistics. Although GPAs tended to change from this past year (as would be expected), median MCAT scores stayed the same more often than not (for the schools I looked at). The schools that did see an uptick in their median MCAT seem to be from the mid or lower tier, from what I can see most top tier schools didn't post higher MCAT scores.

* Here when I say top tier schools I really just mean those which already had a median MCAT of 36 or greater.

 

[Amba]

I didn't see this thread yet in the Pre-Medical Allopathic Forum (the Nontrads beat us to it!), but just wanted to let everyone know the new MSAR is available online. I just looked at the schools I'm planning on applying to, but as I'm sure you can imagine the statistics at many schools got more competitive - even if by very small margins. A few schools also posted significantly less competitive statistics. Although GPAs tended to change from this past year (as would be expected), median MCAT scores stayed the same more often than not (for the schools I looked at). The schools that did see an uptick in their median MCAT seem to be from the mid or lower tier, from what I can see most top tier schools didn't post higher MCAT scores.

* Here when I say top tier schools I really just mean those which already had a median MCAT of 36 or greater.

Yep, the first five I looked at earlier out of curiosity:

Harvard = 36
Yale = 37
Penn = 37
Chicago = 37
WashU = 38

So more or less identical to last year (or down a point in the case of Harvard).

 

[CyberMaxx]

Yeah, I actually noticed two other top tiers (Northwestern and Cornell) which were down a point. Though a handful of 33s went to 34s and 34s to 35s it appears. 4 schools that I had on my school list as matches (+/- 1 LizzyM point) went to reaches 🙁

 

[cookiemonsters]

This is accepted data and not matriculated, right?

 

[CyberMaxx]

This is accepted data and not matriculated, right?

Yes, exactly. To my understanding the MSAR provides the median accepted data while US News provides average matriculant data.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/archive/index.php/t-828002.html

 

[487806]

Yep, the first five I looked at earlier out of curiosity:

Harvard = 36
Yale = 37
Penn = 37
Chicago = 37
WashU = 38

So more or less identical to last year (or down a point in the case of Harvard).

Wow... average MCAT for WashU is a 38...

 

[NickRiviera MD]

One thing to remember is that these data are for ACCEPTED students. There's a lot of parity at the top schools; if a superstar with a 4.0/40 gets accepted at multiple schools, those numbers get calculated into each of those schools' medians that you see in MSAR. The most qualified students will likely be accepted at multiple highly ranked schools but they can only go to one so these numbers are artificially inflated compared to matriculant stats. Don't let these numbers discourage you from applying at your dream schools; I'm glad I didn't.

 

[lobo.solo]

One thing to remember is that these data are for ACCEPTED students. There's a lot of parity at the top schools; if a superstar with a 4.0/40 gets accepted at multiple schools, those numbers get calculated into each of those schools' medians that you see in MSAR. The most qualified students will likely be accepted at multiple highly ranked schools but they can only go to one so these numbers are artificially inflated compared to matriculant stats. Don't let these numbers discourage you from applying at your dream schools; I'm glad I didn't.

I already was, thanks for the comment 🙂

 

[La Presse]

What about Hopkins?

 

[Amba]

What about Hopkins?

36

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[Temperature101]

Wow... average MCAT for WashU is a 38...

They are MCAT *****....

 

[Var_Surfin23]

If you don't mind me asking, what about UCSF and Stanford? I know Stanford jumped 4 stops in USNews rankings so I am just curious.

 

[solesurprise]

Stanford is at 36 and 3.9, no change from last year.

UCSF is at 35 and 3.8, also no change from last year.

 

[Narmerguy]

I can't believe WashU (or any school) has a median score of 38 on the MCAT. That is insane. Lord help the poor children applying 10-15 years from now.

 

[CyberMaxx]

I can't believe WashU (or any school) has a median score of 38 on the MCAT. That is insane. Lord help the poor children applying 10-15 years from now.

I don't know, I can't help thinking that if physician compensation, especially the extraordinary salaries collected by some specialties, continues to decline applicant stats will follow. There are plenty of people going into medicine solely for the money, and even people with good reasons may think twice about accumulating hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt when compensation seems to be shrinking. I know people who have decided against medicine largely due to the passing of the ACA because they believe it will destroy the field. Take this with a grain of salt though, I'm from the South and people here are particularly wary of the government 😳.

In summary, my suspicion is that we are currently applying during what will be considered a peak of med school admissions competitiveness. In fifteen years I think that average stats will have returned to what they were 10 years ago. 😛

 

[Narmerguy]

I don't know, I can't help thinking that if physician compensation, especially the extraordinary salaries collected by some specialties, continues to decline applicant stats will follow. There are plenty of people going into medicine solely for the money, and even people with good reasons may think twice about accumulating hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt when compensation seems to be shrinking. I know people who have decided against medicine largely due to the passing of the ACA because they believe it will destroy the field. Take this with a grain of salt though, I'm from the South and people here are particularly wary of the government 😳.

In summary, my suspicion is that we are currently applying during what will be considered a peak of med school admissions competitiveness. In fifteen years I think that average stats will have returned to what they were 10 years ago. 😛

That's not a bad idea, but if you think about how the profession has "fallen" since the golden years 20 years ago, it's amazing to see how the competition has been unwavering. I think even if salaries dropped 20% across the board (a gross exaggeration) that the profession would still represent one of the best compensated and stable careers for those interested in science and helping people. That's a hard combination to beat, there aren't many "successors" waiting to emerge. Most professions are taking a beating so I actually expect this trend to continue.

 

[cookiemonsters]

Regardless of compensation, being a physician is also considered one of the most prestigious jobs for a lot of different cultures. It will be interesting to see how the next 10 years play out with admissions, but I honestly don't see a decline happening.

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

I can't believe WashU (or any school) has a median score of 38 on the MCAT. That is insane. Lord help the poor children applying 10-15 years from now.

I'm surprised that isn't their MD/PhD stats. A couple MD/PhD programs boast averages as high as 38 and 3.9+ which is even more insane when you consider that most of these programs accept between 5-30 students.

Also, I think that it will actually be easier for the kids applying in 10-15 years. The competitiveness of admissions (not just med school) is cyclical in large part due to generation sizes. Basically it gets most competitive when you have a generation that a successive generation to the baby boomers (the current generation applying right now is the largest in US history) and then reaches a nadir in-between. This is what happened back in med school admissions in the mid-to-late 90s, and then it picked up again as our generation began applying. It's been increasing ever since thanks to birthrates that continually increased throughout the 80s, but it's about to hit its peak in several more years and then begin decreasing after that. This has already happened to high school class sizes (they've been declining for years now) and IIRC it may have already started to happen to undergrad admissions.

 

[Daodejing]

Although this is greatly derailing the thread, I'm interested to see how much robotics (i.e. IBM's Watson) will impact medicine in general. Undoubtedly, the future is fascinating yet unnerving at the same time.

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

Although this is greatly derailing the thread, I'm interested to see how much robotics (i.e. IBM's Watson) will impact medicine in general. Undoubtedly, the future is fascinating yet unnerving at the same time.

Not very much. We already have robotics in surgery, but they're just glorified surgical tools. I really don't see a future anytime soon where robots/AI take over any aspect of medicine due to how subjective the work is. Sure, most cases may be textbook and best diagnosed and treated with standard protocols, but then you have that small subset where everything goes out the window and you need a human with actual intelligence and creativity to have any hope of solving the problem.

Think of it like how auto-pilot impacted the aviation industry. Sure, the auto-pilot is technically capable of flying the plane all by itself, but we still put the same number of highly trained, well compensated humans in the cockpit nonetheless because the auto-pilot still has its limitations and is totally inadequate at addressing emergencies.

 

[I Love Cats]

There isn't a need to buy anything new if we had last year's purchased online, right?

 

[CyberMaxx]

As long as your online subscription is still good you should be fine. You'll notice that in the upper right-hand corner of the search screen the year selected will be 2014.

 

[Darth]

I can't believe WashU (or any school) has a median score of 38 on the MCAT. That is insane. Lord help the poor children applying 10-15 years from now.

Average 38...average. That is absurd 😱. Much respect for those students

 

[Var_Surfin23]

Stanford is at 36 and 3.9, no change from last year.

UCSF is at 35 and 3.8, also no change from last year.

Thanks!!

 

[Dbate]

That's not a bad idea, but if you think about how the profession has "fallen" since the golden years 20 years ago, it's amazing to see how the competition has been unwavering. I think even if salaries dropped 20% across the board (a gross exaggeration) that the profession would still represent one of the best compensated and stable careers for those interested in science and helping people. That's a hard combination to beat, there aren't many "successors" waiting to emerge. Most professions are taking a beating so I actually expect this trend to continue.

Even though the financial benefits of being a physician are decreasing. Compared to many other professions, medicine is still financial secure and amazing.

If anything, more people will be applying to medical school in the future, as the poor economy (and the cultural memories it causes) causes more parents to encourage their children to pursue secure professions.

You just have to look to other countries to see where physician salaries will end up. At the end of the day, MDs will still bring hope at least 100K. Which is a alot compared to many other professions.

 

[Narmerguy]

Average 38...average. That is absurd 😱. Much respect for those students

It's actually median 😛 But I agree!