I heard of new optometry schools opening up soon. Recent one was Midwestern University in Glendale, AZ.
Any other ones coming soon?
Any other ones coming soon?
New opening optometry school's
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Next college: state of MA where ODs have the smallest scope of practice in the country, awesome! Lets pump out more refraction robots. I'm definitely doing a residency and getting board certified, this is getting ridiculous.
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When will adding new schools end? geez! I think 20 schools is plenty according to i think i've heard on how many people are getting accepted versus how many are applying!
I'm applying for 2012, so how can I apply for the new optometry school in Massachusetts?
This is good news, because it gives us students more chances of getting into schools. The more schools, the more chances of us getting recruited 🙂
This is good news, because it gives us students more chances of getting into schools. The more schools, the more chances of us getting recruited 🙂
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good point! lets let everyone in!!!
As for applying to the new school, if it actually opens for 2012 enrollment i would imagine you apply on optomcas like the rest of the schools.
As for applying to the new school, if it actually opens for 2012 enrollment i would imagine you apply on optomcas like the rest of the schools.
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Once you actually get in, you will think differently.
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Maybe i have gotten in, and maybe i was being sarcastic.
But hey maybe not??? dam, more sarcasm....
But hey maybe not??? dam, more sarcasm....
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Why do new threads keep popping up about the same two schools? There're twenty, right now (May, 2011), and two more have been planned since ~mid-2010 (they should open by Fall, 2012).
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No...it is actually really crappy news b/c it makes more spaces for those who would be otherwise unqualified.
Thank heavens for the board exams. You may want to think twice before sinking your money into a brand new school if they aren't going to prepare you adequately to pass the exam that determines whether you can actually practice what you've been learning.
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There are still those that don't get in. They're just not going to be out telling the world that they didn't get in anywhere.
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That's funny.
First, I don't see why someone who has not even attended Optometry school can make such statements concerning the "qualification" of an applicant.
Second, plenty of people with good stats choose to go to the new schools. I know I would if it was cheaper/closer etc. than other schools.
Third, if the schools are accredited, which is highly likely, than you can expect the schools to teach material that will show up on the boards.
So in summary, thecgrblue is basically wrong about everything!
so are you saying you wouldnt attend the new school for its first four years (at least), correct? and that anyone else in the position between choosing an older school or newer school should do the same? just making sureeeeee
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Ohhhhhh boy...You're just mad b/c I disagree with just about everything you say. I will go ahead and let other people respond to your statement since they will probably be exactly what I would say.
I'll take the answer!
1. In the context of what is being said, qualification is GPA and OAT. Just look at the stats of the new schools. The stats are considerably lower (especially in the GPA section) than the older school, meaning that ON AVERAGE they have less qualified students (a lot of whom did NOT get in anywhere else).
2. Some people may, but that is not common like you are making it out to be. Once again, look at GPA (and keep in mind that it is the AVERAGE, which means that a lot of people scored BELOW that 3.1 or 3.2 average).
3. You obviously are the one who does not know their stuff when it comes to opt school. A school CANNOT be accredited in the first 4 years of its existence. It can be "pre-accreditied", meaning that it will probably be accredited after its first 4 years, after a class is graduataed. BUT, it is not guaranteed. So, in the opinion of a lot of people, it is foolish decision to attend a new school given the option.
4. Have you been to optometry school?
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The schools will eventually become accredited. It is highly unlikely that the schools won't be accredited due to such a large investment in the school itself.
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Just a FYI for readers, PUCO (Pacific University College of Optometry) admits applicants with 2.8 GPAs.
Why should the newer schools be criticized about unqualified applicants when more established schools, like PUCO, have been doing the same since their inception?
Well, they really shouldn't. It's just that certain individuals who have yet to attend an Optometry school feel the need to belittle other schools/people with lower stats because of insecurities and a general lack of knowledge.
The only thing going for older schools is that they are accredited, but, honestly, the newer schools will eventually be accredited. You just don't plan for something as large as a college/university, only to fail accreditation.
Why should the newer schools be criticized about unqualified applicants when more established schools, like PUCO, have been doing the same since their inception?
Well, they really shouldn't. It's just that certain individuals who have yet to attend an Optometry school feel the need to belittle other schools/people with lower stats because of insecurities and a general lack of knowledge.
The only thing going for older schools is that they are accredited, but, honestly, the newer schools will eventually be accredited. You just don't plan for something as large as a college/university, only to fail accreditation.
Exactly. I always get fooled into looking into such threads (thinking that maybe it's new) but this is really old news now. It's the same 2 schools, but some how people manage to whip it up into a tidal flood of schools. I agree though that Optometry should hold its ground in terms of new schools or it will end up like Pharmacy with schools popping up in every crevice. However, these folks should really focus their over supply complaints on the AOA or something as there's not much that's going to get done about it by posting here.
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imemily you have quite an attitude concerning your position. Did you get into a glorious new school? Did they feed you glorious news about their for-profit institutions about how you will become an optometrist and you shouldn't worry about your astronomical tuition?
Yes, PUCO may have accepted a 2.8 but those are OUTLIERS. The AVERAGE stats are way higher than any new school. Do you know which matters more? Hmmm let me guess...
I hope they make the boards even harder as the years go on because this year it was a 72% pass rate which I like to see. They are definitely not going to get easier unless optometrists start ceding territory in their scope of practice. All those fantastic students at those new schools will feel the pressure in their third year when they are faced with the boards and not to mention the insane tuition debt.
Yes, PUCO may have accepted a 2.8 but those are OUTLIERS. The AVERAGE stats are way higher than any new school. Do you know which matters more? Hmmm let me guess...
I hope they make the boards even harder as the years go on because this year it was a 72% pass rate which I like to see. They are definitely not going to get easier unless optometrists start ceding territory in their scope of practice. All those fantastic students at those new schools will feel the pressure in their third year when they are faced with the boards and not to mention the insane tuition debt.
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like imemily said, i've seen individuals post with low gpas to other older schools..i think i saw someone post that they had a 2.7 and got into SCO (granted that they might have slightly above average OAT's like 330)..and as seen with PUCO above.
I think that a lot of these schools have lower gpa and oat accepted students because of the bad hype these forums give, but I'm pretty sure that some of these schools get soo much money pumped in by investors and their respective schools that they are going to do anything and everything to ensure that their students are prepared to succeed on the boards and as optometrists in the real world. I really think that a student could have a mediocre gpa and oat, but if they are passionate about the field that they will have great GPAs in optometry school and success in the field. I still, however, believe that we have plenty of schools now..those arae just my beliefs tho
I think that a lot of these schools have lower gpa and oat accepted students because of the bad hype these forums give, but I'm pretty sure that some of these schools get soo much money pumped in by investors and their respective schools that they are going to do anything and everything to ensure that their students are prepared to succeed on the boards and as optometrists in the real world. I really think that a student could have a mediocre gpa and oat, but if they are passionate about the field that they will have great GPAs in optometry school and success in the field. I still, however, believe that we have plenty of schools now..those arae just my beliefs tho
All these schools will be accredited, because accreditation is not that difficult. You simply have to prove you meet certain standards, which any of these programs will be able to do. It's really not that much of a risk.
You place too much emphasis on GPA, OAT is what you should be comparing. OAT is standardized, GPA is not.
I rarely get a patient who asks me where I went to optometry school. Do you think the average patient would have any idea how schools compare? Do you think most employers really care?
We will know in another year how the 3 recently started programs do on their boards. Potential students should be concerned about board pass rates since you can't practice anywhere in this country without passing the NBEOs. Licensure is more important than who issues your diploma.
There isn't anything that anyone can do about these new schools. Higher education is a business, and if you have enough money you can start an optometry school.
I said that they probably would get accredited, and they probably will, but there is the possibility that they will not.
Yes, OAT is standardized, but GPA does matter, and considering that GPA is definitely lower at new schools, I don't think you can argue that GPA does not carry emphasis, should not be compared, or that it does not adequately reflect the competitiveness of the applicants between newer schools and older schools.
I never said a patient knows. Unless they are in the medical field and happen to know about the school you went to, they don't. While there are a lot of employers who don't care, there are plenty who do. Every optometrist I have shadowed (all private practice) has had definite opinions about the worth of education of the different schools. In a perfect world, there is no bias, but with a lot of optometrists, there are. There are also those who could not care less.
Yes, the boards will show how the new schools compare. Yes, passing the boards are the most important thing, not where you went to school. But I don't think those who are a little wary of going to a new school that does not have that information yet should be criticized for holding those opinions.
I've been doing admission work for a very long time and I can tell you from my experiences at two different optometry programs that GPA is less relevant than your OAT. Believe me, or not, that's the way it is.
There is also almost no chance that these schools will not be accredited. All of those of you that think that by boycotting new schools, you will help them to fail are only kidding yourselves.
I'm not criticizing anyone, but I've been in this business longer than most of you have been alive and I've think I've learned a thing or two along the way. Would you rather get information from someone who might get into optometry school some day, or from someone whose done it and now teaches it????
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The gpa does carry emphasis, but only in your little ignorant pre-optometry mind. Sorry, but you continue to demote newer schools based on your own illogical speculation.
Ex:
UIW entering class of 09 had a 3.31 avg gpa.
PCO entering class of 09 had a 3.37 avg gpa.
You obviously do not know what you're talking about, since you continue to emphasize large GPA disparities between older/newer schools, when in fact, there is negligible disparity. Also, the OAT scores of these two schools are very comparable.
I have heard of one program that has a formula, but I don't think that's the norm. In that program, GPA was 30 to 40 percent. The programs I am familiar with realize this doesn't work. Most program have minimum acceptable OATs and they rarely go below these numbers. They have target GPAs, but realize that science GPA is usually more important than overall GPA. You could have a lower overall GPA than someone else, but a higher science GPA.
The problem with GPAs is that they develop over at least a four year period. We always look at the trends. For example, you have a difficult time adjusting to college and you don't do well your first year, but you have an upward trend. Or you do better in your junior or senior years with more difficult classes. All of these things have to be taken into account. So one 3.0 GPA isn't the same as another. There are plenty of students currently in optometry programs with GPAs below what you might think is acceptable for these reasons. Also, not all students have the same undergrad courses, so a non science major may need a higher GPA. Finally, we look at the quality of the undergraduate institution.
Sorry for such a long answer to your question, but it really is more complicated than most students think.
Whatever. Yes, like I said, OAT carries more emphasis. All I said what that GPA does calculate into it. As Eyes99 pointed out, GPA is very complicated due to a variety of factors, but it is considered. FYI, you only compared 2 schools, one of the newer schools with the highest GPA and one of the older with the one of the lowest. I have no problem with the newer schools, I am only pointing out the reasoning why a lot of students are a little wary. I would also refrain from continuing to bash other students on this forum, especially since you fall into the pre-optometry category as well.
I agree that some students will be wary, and that is ok. You certainly want to be comfortable with the program you choose. Most of you will have more than one choice of program and you should attend the one that seems best for you. If you live in a state that has a new program, that may make it more attractive than if you don't. On the plus side, these schools are getting all new equipment and facilities. On the negative side, they are an unknown and that may cause you to have second thoughts.
Do your research, pick the best program for your needs. Don't worry about the new schools ruining the profession, they won't. There is always room for great doctors out there.
Good luck.
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I really think people should forget about "new school vs old school" and which kind is better to attend, advantages and disadvantages of both, etc. The question is, should I even be GOING to optometry school right now at all? The reason that there's so much confusion in the optometry world over these new schools is the absolute fact that there are already WAAAAAAY too many ODs in the US. Look into what you will be getting for your money. Do you want to graduate with 200K in debt and find yourself working in a refraction mill? It very well may happen. It's not enough to just say "I'll be fine, I'll work hard, I'll be better than the next guy. It may not matter if the saturation level is high enough. In my opinion, right now it is in most places in the US. Sorry to be a downer, but it's true, folks. I'm not telling anyone to stay out of optometry, but just make SURE you know what it is you're getting before you set off on a very long, very expensive journey. I think this poster says it better than I can so I will steal his quote below......
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I agree that the schools themselves won't ruin the profession, commercial optometry is taking care of that in a larger part. But the excess number of practitioners being introduced into the system along with the very low retirement rate, is certainly not making things easier. It may sound heroic to say things like "There will always be room for great doctors out there." but when 2/3 of a graduating class is forced into commercial refractive-only type setups, clearly there's a problem. Commercial optometry has only in the last 10 years or so, grown out of control and I attribute the growth directly to the fact that there are so many ODs being pumped out and they have nowhere else to go but commercial. It ends up feeding the "commercial animal" and that's why it's growing bigger and bigger every year. I'm afraid that private practice optometry is disappearing slowly as docs retire. Several offices in my city have been bought up at retirement by expanding commercial chains. Newer grads simply can't afford to add even more debt on top of what they already have. I think the optometry that many people are sacrificing for right now in school is going to be drastically different from what they are hoping it will be. I hope I'm wrong.
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I really hope you and other people are reading posts in the Optometry forum...due to these increase in schools and applicants, the job market is getting a little crazy. We may find ourselves fighting for jobs in the Walmart's and Costco's these days.. There is a whole different side of optometry which is not the most promising...for that reason, I have no idea why the hell people think there is a need for newer, unaccredited school to open.
I really don't think anyone who knows this profession really believes there is a need for any more new schools.
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I just can't fathom the idea there is nothing being done to put a stop to this. New optometry schools are nothing but corporate conglomerates that have no business adding more pressure to an already-saturated market. I can see why AOA is not battling this at all either since to them, more schools = more ODs= more membership fees to collect. ::sigh:: 😱
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I totally agree, the AOA is supposed to be a leading national force in keeping the profession alive and well? Hardly, it's all about more $, both for the schools and that AOA. I wish more people would see that new private schools are rubbing their hands together with visions of millions of tuition dollars coming in - never mind that the negative effects will likely hurt the profession in the long run.
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Doing a residency and/or getting board certified will not qualify you to do anything else than your future non-residency trained / non-board certified colleagues. Board certification, in my opinion, is the most ridiculous excuse to charge ODs yet more money, only exceeded by the high price of an OD itself. Doing a residency will certainly help you in terms of your own confidence level and knowledge, but it won't permit you to do anything more than a brand new grad in terms of practice act. I really don't think we should even call them residencies, we should call them extended externships or fellowships. I'm not telling you not to do one, I did one and I would do it again, but it will cost you a ton of money in terms of lost income and student loan interest (since you won't be able to make payments that year in all likelihood). Just don't do the residency with the belief that it will prevent you from being turned into a refracting robot, necessarily.
