New Pharmacy School in Kentucky

[All4MyDaughter]

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I was looking in the local paper today for pharmacist jobs and saw that Sullivan University (a local for-profit career university) will be opening a pharmacy school here in Louisville. They were advertising for their founding Dean position.

If it's been in the media prior to this, I've missed it.

Currently this university offers certificate, associates and bachelor's degrees in business/office administration, paralegal, professional nanny, travel and tourism, public safety and culinary arts. They also offer the MBA and the Masters of Information Technology. In my opinion, a PharmD program is a big step up for them.

I will be interested to see how this develops. I wonder if it will be a 3 or 4 year program? My guess is 3 years because they advertise that they offer "fast track to career" programs.

It will be very expensive, I can tell you that. Their regular tuition is high, although I cannot find where it is listed on their website.

Sullivan University

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Sullivan University to start college of pharmacy


A college of pharmacy is set to open in about two years at Sullivan University, school officials announced late Thursday.

The university is starting the program to address a growing shortage of pharmacists across the country, said Tom Davisson, senior vice president of the Sullivan University System, in a news release.

The only other pharmacy school in Kentucky is at the University of Kentucky in Lexington. Officials with that university, who recently announced they will expand their pharmacy school by sending some fifth-year students to Louisville for clinical work, have said Kentucky is near the top of national rankings of states with a shortage of pharmacists. (For more, click year.)

Sullivan officials studied the need for a pharmacy college here for two years before presenting the concept to the university's board of directors for approval in October, the release said.

A search for a dean of the pharmacy college already is under way.

The new program will be the first doctorate-level program offered by Louisville-based Sullivan University, which has several master's degree programs in addition to associate's and bachelor's degree programs.

Dr. Daniel Nona, executive director emeritus of the Accrediting Council on Pharmaceutical Education and professor emeritus at the University of Illinois College of Pharmacy, has served as a consultant to Sullivan as school officials have studied the concept of adding a pharmacy program.

"Sullivan University is committed to bringing the necessary resources to the development of a college of pharmacy whose mission is to assist in addressing the expanding needs for pharmaceutical care in the community," Nona said in the release. "The university's dedication to effective teaching will be the linchpin of the new professional program leading to the doctor of pharmacy degree."

Sullivan will seek accreditation for the pharmacy program from the Accrediting Council for Pharmacy Education, according to the release. The ACPE, based in Chicago, is the national agency that is charged with accrediting professional degree programs in pharmacy and providers of continuing pharmacy education.

Also, Sullivan will seek a new accreditation level with the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools. The Decatur, Ga., organization recently reaffirmed Sullivan's institutional accreditation for 10 years, the release said.

The Sullivan University System's Louisville campus is located at 3101 Bardstown Road. Sullivan also has campuses in Lexington and Fort Knox.

Spencerian College, 4627 Dixie Highway, and Louisville Technical Institute, 3901 Adkinson Square Drive, also are part of the Sullivan University System.

With enrollment of more than 4,000 students, Sullivan is the largest privately owned college in Kentucky, ranked by enrollment, according to the gohigherky.org Web site, which contains information about colleges and universities in Kentucky.


http://www.bizjournals.com/louisville/stories/2006/03/13/daily37.html

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I have a nominee for the position of Dean.

He has experience with start-up pharmacy schools.

He already lives in Kentucky.

He's unemployed as far as I know.

Any guesses?

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Appalachia has enough pharmacy schools now. They can stop. At this rate we'll be soon churning out more than California.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Appalachia has enough pharmacy schools now. They can stop. At this rate we'll be soon churning out more than California.

I'm not too excited about the new school either, but I don't think Louisville is technically considered part of Appalachia.. is it? I've never thought of it that way.

 

[DrBowtie]

I'm not too excited about the new school either, but I don't think Louisville is technically considered part of Appalachia.. is it? I've never thought of it that way.

Louisville isn't Appalachia.

I'm kinda surprised Sullivan got this sort of thing going.

 

[kwizard]

I'm not too excited about the new school either, but I don't think Louisville is technically considered part of Appalachia.. is it? I've never thought of it that way.

Yep, a new pharmacy school in KY will be interesting indeed; however, the appeal of Sullivan will probably have to be to those who don't get into UK and are also willing to pay the cost of tuition. UK is so prestigious and affordable (even out of state tuition isn't bad) and going to another school out of state may still be cheaper than Sullivan's cost of tution (depending on the rates of other pharmacy schools). I mean you could potentially take loans out all 6yrs at UK and probably pay them all of within 6mos to a yr from graduation date (assuming you don't get loan forgiveness to practice in East KY) based on avg salaries (esp. the avg salary in KY is very good even more given price of living is so affordable). Sullivan also may be hard pressed for practice sites and funding since the entire state is predominantly backing UK (w/ new funding for new school of pharmacy building) in addition to a more formalized rotation system and potential classes via teleconference in Louisville. The new school in East Tenessee is also set to open soon, but it'll be interesting exactly how succesful these programs can recruit and maintain themselves as they may have to do so w/o any additional support via state funding and are in states where the bulk of practicing pharmacists in each respective state are loyal contributing alumni to the pre-existing colleges of pharmacy(i.e. UK and UT).

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Ok, fine, you win. Barely.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Ok, fine, you win. Barely.[/QUOTE]


Missed us by a good 200 miles, I'd say.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Yep, a new pharmacy school in KY will be interesting indeed; however, the appeal of Sullivan will probably have to be to those who don't get into UK and are also willing to pay the cost of tuition. UK is so prestigious and affordable (even out of state tuition isn't bad) and going to another school out of state may still be cheaper than Sullivan's cost of tution (depending on the rates of other pharmacy schools). I mean you could potentially take loans out all 6yrs at UK and probably pay them all of within 6mos to a yr from graduation date (assuming you don't get loan forgiveness to practice in East KY) based on avg salaries (esp. the avg salary in KY is very good even more given price of living is so affordable). Sullivan also may be hard pressed for practice sites and funding since the entire state is predominantly backing UK (w/ new funding for new school of pharmacy building) in addition to a more formalized rotation system and potential classes via teleconference in Louisville. The new school in East Tenessee is also set to open soon, but it'll be interesting exactly how succesful these programs can recruit and maintain themselves as they may have to do so w/o any additional support via state funding and are in states where the bulk of practicing pharmacists in each respective state are loyal contributing alumni to the pre-existing colleges of pharmacy(i.e. UK and UT).

Are you from Ky, too? I think Sullivan has an uphill battle, due to the things you cited plus their reputation. They are known as more of a tech school (an expensive one).

I'd guess that tuition for their pharmD program will top $40,000/year. Their regular tuition (for the culinary, nanny, business) and other programs is close to $1000/credit hour.

 

[Robinbird]

I'm not sure how accurate that map is. Knoxville isn't really in the right place. It isn't that close to Kentucky.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I'm not sure how accurate that map is. Knoxivlle isn't really in the right place. It isn't that close to Kentucky.

Dunno about that. The Kentucky part of the map looks pretty accurate.
Knoxville isn't that far from the state line. We always stop there on our way to Gatlinburg and it seems pretty close to me. I don't live there, so I'd have to defer to the experts.


ETA: Knoxville is about 58 miles from the KY/TN state line.

 

[Robinbird]

It doesn't really matter, and its extremely off topic, but I was just pointing it out. I live about 45 minutes away from Knoxville. On the map Knoxville and Chattanooga are about the same distance from the state line. Chattanooga is pretty much at the state line while Knoxville is probably over 50 miles south of the state line. Gatlinburg is pretty close to North Carolina. Maybe no one really cares about TN.

ETA: you beat me to it.

 

[kwizard]

Dunno about that. The Kentucky part of the map looks pretty accurate.
Knoxville isn't that far from the state line. We always stop there on our way to Gatlinburg and it seems pretty close to me. I don't live there, so I'd have to defer to the experts.


ETA: Knoxville is about 58 miles from the KY/TN state line.

Nope, I'm not from KY, but spent some time there as a pharmacist. It is a great place to be a pharmacist. Pay is great compared to national avg and price of living is much less than the national avg so you can really live comfortably. I'd say the same would be the case for TN so I'd agree that I kind of doubt how a private school would be able to compete in a state where public education is so affordable and those who don't get in to the state school typically go further south to Samford or north to Cincinatti where in both cases I don't think out-state costs would compare to the avg private school?

As far as the map...I think it is fairly accurate as you can get to Knoxville in about 2-3hrs from Lexington depending how fast your shooting down I-75.

 

[DrBowtie]

Are you from Ky, too? I think Sullivan has an uphill battle, due to the things you cited plus their reputation. They are known as more of a tech school (an expensive one).

I'd guess that tuition for their pharmD program will top $40,000/year. Their regular tuition (for the culinary, nanny, business) and other programs is close to $1000/credit hour.

The local rep. is pretty poor IMO which is why I am surprised they could pull off opening a pharmacy school.

Their admissions standards will probably be on the low end thus probably as someone else mentioned will become a place for KY people who don't get into UK or Cincy.

Not a bad place to put it but they should have coupled it with U of L since it has a large health science infrastructure already.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

It doesn't really matter, and its extremely off topic, but I was just pointing it out. I live about 45 minutes away from Knoxville. On the map Knoxville and Chattanooga are about the same distance from the state line. Chattanooga is pretty much at the state line while Knoxville is probably over 50 miles south of the state line. Gatlinburg is pretty close to North Carolina. Maybe no one really cares about TN.

ETA: you beat me to it.

I really like TN. My husband and I have had several nice trips to Gatlinburg and I love Memphis. My friend from Rwanda has been bugging me to take him to Memphis to see Graceland.

Nashville is great for shopping. I like Opryland better as a mall than I did as an amusement park. I almost went to Vanderbilt but it was just too dang expensive.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

The local rep. is pretty poor IMO which is why I am surprised they could pull off opening a pharmacy school.

Their admissions standards will probably be on the low end thus probably as someone else mentioned will become a place for KY people who don't get into UK or Cincy.

Not a bad place to put it but they should have coupled it with U of L since it has a large health science infrastructure already.

I agree, Brett. I think it will be interesting. Hospital affiliation will have to be built from the ground up. As you may have read Norton and UK just completed a multi-year agreement for clinical rotations. As kwizard said most of the pharmacists in KY are UK grads and they may prefer to precept students from their alma mater.

I don't think I'd want to go to Sullivan. They come off as pretty mercenary at times. The tuition is astronomical.

Their culinary arts programs are top notch (really). Some of the bakers/pastry chefs they rotate through Kroger are wonderful. But does success as a culinary school (even a world class one) = success as a professional pharmacy school?

What if they were trying to open an allopathic or osteopathic medical school? Sounds absurd, doesn't it? I don't know that pharmacy is any better a fit.

 

[DrBowtie]

I agree, Brett. I think it will be interesting. Hospital affiliation will have to be built from the ground up. As you may have read Norton and UK just completed a multi-year agreement for clinical rotations. As kwizard said most of the pharmacists in KY are UK grads and they may prefer to precept students from their alma mater.

I don't think I'd want to go to Sullivan. They come off as pretty mercenary at times. The tuition is astronomical.

Their culinary arts programs are top notch (really). Some of the bakers/pastry chefs they rotate through Kroger are wonderful. But does success as a culinary school (even a world class one) = success as a professional pharmacy school?

What if they were trying to open an allopathic or osteopathic medical school? Sounds absurd, doesn't it? I don't know that pharmacy is any better a fit.

No doubt they have a good culinary school, but I don't really think that translates into quality professional schools. In Louisville especially their rep is as a culinary school. I doubt many people locally would be interested in attending.

As for your other point, it was just announced that in Colorado there will be a FOR PROFIT osteopathic medical school opening, which is a first for the med community to my knowledge. Is that common for pharm schools?

 

[All4MyDaughter]

No doubt they have a good culinary school, but I don't really think that translates into quality professional schools. In Louisville especially their rep is as a culinary school. I doubt many people locally would be interested in attending.

As for your other point, it was just announced that in Colorado there will be a FOR PROFIT osteopathic medical school opening, which is a first for the med community to my knowledge. Is that common for pharm schools?

Dang it. Now I want some puff pastries from The Bakery. That place is expensive, too.

I don't know numbers about private, for-profit pharmacy schools. I think South University in GA might be a proprietary school, like Sullivan. But I believe South has other professional health-care programs and are pretty well-established in that sector. Anyone know anything this question?

What's weird to me about Sullivan is that pharmacy doesn't fit with their other programs. Nanny, office administrator, chef, pharmacist!!??!! It isn't just that they are for-profit. Proprietary schools aren't inherently bad. If they were a proprietary health-professions school it'd make more sense. They do have that affiliated school (Spencerian) that has the ADN, medtech, etc. programs. I think Sullivan has medical assisting and legal nurse consultant. Still, pharmacy seems like uncharted waters for them.

To me it looks like they said, HEY there's a huge pharmacist shortage in this region and most people can't get into UK. I think they are betting that those who desire the career and lifestyle will pay Sullivan's price to gain access to the profession. It looks money-motivated to me. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as they don't cut corners in developing their program.

Hawaii, anyone?

 

[JohnUNLV]

I have a nominee for the position of Dean.

He has experience with start-up pharmacy schools.

He already lives in Kentucky.

He's unemployed as far as I know.

Any guesses?

A new for-profit pharmacy school in Kentucky...
Monroe and Criswell (owners/rapists/thiefs of the Hawaii College of Pharmacy) live there, have a luxury home in Louisville I believe and are indeed unemployed... Would they actually try that again? Have their names ever been mentioned in association with this new program?

 

[All4MyDaughter]

A new for-profit pharmacy school in Kentucky...
Monroe and Criswell (owners/rapists/thiefs of the Hawaii College of Pharmacy) live there, have a luxury home in Louisville I believe and are indeed unemployed... Would they actually try that again? Have their names ever been mentioned in association with this new program?

Yay! The former JohnHICP chimes in with the correct answer.

I haven't seen anything that makes it sound like M & C are involved. But I haven't seen much about the new Sullivan pharmacy school before today.

 

[DrBowtie]

Dang it. Now I want some puff pastries from The Bakery. That place is expensive, too.

I don't know numbers about private, for-profit pharmacy schools. I think South University in GA might be a proprietary school, like Sullivan. But I believe South has other professional health-care programs and are pretty well-established in that sector. Anyone know anything this question?

What's weird to me about Sullivan is that pharmacy doesn't fit with their other programs. Nanny, office administrator, chef, pharmacist!!??!! It isn't just that they are for-profit. Proprietary schools aren't inherently bad. If they were a proprietary health-professions school it'd make more sense. They do have that affiliated school (Spencerian) that has the ADN, medtech, etc. programs. I think Sullivan has medical assisting and legal nurse consultant. Still, pharmacy seems like uncharted waters for them.

To me it looks like they said, HEY there's a huge pharmacist shortage in this region and most people can't get into UK. I think they are betting that those who desire the career and lifestyle will pay Sullivan's price to gain access to the profession. It looks money-motivated to me. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as they don't cut corners in developing their program.

Hawaii, anyone?

I think when education turns for profit, students interests might not always be priority. Something about it just seems sketch and unappealing but as I stated earlier, the admissions standards will probably be low and be a haven for the UK & Cincy rejects who are willing to pay the extra $$$$. Although staying in the Ville would be tempting.

I've read briefly about the Hawaii situation on SDN and it would be hard to believe that Sullivan would hire on the same people.

I suppose they can contract with Jewish and University Hospitals for rotations

 

[JohnUNLV]

Yay! The former JohnHICP chimes in with the correct answer.

I haven't seen anything that makes it sound like M & C are involved. But I haven't seen much about the new Sullivan pharmacy school before today.

Well, if you do hear anything about them in connection with this school, or any school for that matter, please let me know. =)

 

[starsweet]

I was looking in the local paper today for pharmacist jobs and saw that Sullivan University (a local for-profit career university) will be opening a pharmacy school here in Louisville. They were advertising for their founding Dean position.

Sorry if this is slightly off topic, but how do you know when a school is for profit?

 

[BiOGoly]

Currently this university offers certificate, associates and bachelor's degrees in business/office administration, paralegal, professional nanny, travel and tourism, public safety and culinary arts.

Private health education schools (Midwestern etc.) are one thing and "career-vocational" schools are another. Vocational schools serve an important niche...but what's next? Will Apollo college and DeVry start granting the pharmD degree aswell? I'm not sure being associated with "McEducation" is the best direction for the profession...imho.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Sorry if this is slightly off topic, but how do you know when a school is for profit?

It would be found in the corporate charter.
There should be some type of disclosure somewhere.
Most private colleges are non-profit.
Some are proprietary (for profit).

Sullivan is for profit. It is privately owned.

Someone else may know more about this.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Private health education schools (Midwestern etc.) are one thing and "career-vocational" schools are another. Vocational schools serve an important niche...but what's next? Will Apollo college and DeVry start granting the pharmD degree aswell? I'm not sure being associated with "McEducation" is the best direction for the profession...imho.

Midwestern is not a propriety school, is it?

I think its a not-for-profit.

 

[starsweet]

It would be found in the corporate charter.
There should be some type of disclosure somewhere.
Most private colleges are non-profit.
Some are proprietary (for profit).

Sullivan is for profit. It is privately owned.

Someone else may know more about this.

I have a feeling South University may be for profit. Before I get flamed, I'm NOT dissing the school or anything, but something about them always seemed a little fishy to me. Only a week or two after my acceptance I got an email from them saying tuition will be up 4-6% from $34,000. 😕 That and something always seems weird about them... can't quite put my finger on it.

Can someone prove me wrong? I guess this is the wrong thread for this though.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I have a feeling South University may be for profit. Before I get flamed, I'm NOT dissing the school or anything, but something about them always seemed a little fishy to me. Only a week or two after my acceptance I got an email from them saying tuition will be up 4-6% from $34,000. 😕 That and something always seems weird about them... can't quite put my finger on it.

Can someone prove me wrong? I guess this is the wrong thread for this though.

South is. It was a family owned business until 2003 when it was acquired by Education Management Corporation.

 

[starsweet]

South is. It was a family owned business until 2003 when it was acquired by Education Management Corporation.

Aha. So what does this really mean for students? Like are there any reasons to go to a non-profit school over a for-profit school, other than the obvious money reasons? Are there any disadvantages in going to a for-profit school? The idea doesn't sound to appealing to me, however, it's the only acceptance I've gotten so far.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Aha. So what does this really mean for students? Like are there any reasons to go to a non-profit school over a for-profit school, other than the obvious money reasons? Are there any disadvantages in going to a for-profit school? The idea doesn't sound to appealing to me, however, it's the only acceptance I've gotten so far.

I really don't know. As long as the education is good quality, non-profit vs for-profit shouldn't matter too much.

For-profit schools should be fairly student oriented since student tuition is likely their ONLY source of revenue.

Some people may think there are prestige issues or other issues, but I really don't know. I doubt that the general public understands much about the difference between the two types of schools.

For-profit schools are likely to be expensive, but there are plenty of private NON-profit schools that are very expensive as well. USC is one that comes to mind immediately.

I say, if you are comfortable with the school, you should go there.

 

[DrBowtie]

I really don't know. As long as the education is good quality, non-profit vs for-profit shouldn't matter too much.

For-profit schools should be fairly student oriented since student tuition is likely their ONLY source of revenue.

Some people may think there are prestige issues or other issues, but I really don't know. I doubt that the general public understands much about the difference between the two types of schools.

For-profit schools are likely to be expensive, but there are plenty of private NON-profit schools that are very expensive as well. USC is one that comes to mind immediately.

I say, if you are comfortable with the school, you should go there.

Although tuition is high with a for-profit, you have to wonder how much of that is going to their profit margin.

Secondly, do they really have to be student oriented? Would it really matter if students were miserable? How many would transfer vs. stick it out? The nature of professional schools competitiveness means that no matter what they will fill their seats and make money.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Although tuition is high with a for-profit, you have to wonder how much of that is going to their profit margin.

Secondly, do they really have to be student oriented? Would it really matter if students were miserable? How many would transfer vs. stick it out? The nature of professional schools competitiveness means that no matter what they will fill their seats and make money.

As with any business, pleasing your customer base is important. Students are the customers - the only customers - of proprietary schools. It seems logical to me that they want to keep them (and their $$$$) from walking.

The model I'm describing is probably more relevant to traditional "tech school" programs that have to compete for students. You are correct that there should be plenty of students ready and willing to take spaces left by drop-outs of these highly competitive professional programs.

 

[Abilify]

I really don't know. As long as the education is good quality, non-profit vs for-profit shouldn't matter too much.

For-profit schools should be fairly student oriented since student tuition is likely their ONLY source of revenue.

Some people may think there are prestige issues or other issues, but I really don't know. I doubt that the general public understands much about the difference between the two types of schools.

For-profit schools are likely to be expensive, but there are plenty of private NON-profit schools that are very expensive as well. USC is one that comes to mind immediately.

I say, if you are comfortable with the school, you should go there.

Should be student oriented but not. They don't have to be.

Think about it. Attend 1 year of school and you are over 30k in the hole. If you leave pharmacy school, most do not have a job to fall back on to pay back the loan!

If you like to be involved in student organizations, I would suggest trying elsewhere. The 3 year deal really complicates things but also organizations get no money from the school to do anything. It's the bottom line to them, the less money spent the more money earned!

 

[vafcarrot]

The dean at UK actually talked about this to some of us. He thinks it will be a joke and they won't be successful. UK is in talks with U of L to set up a school with them (or at least send rotating students their way) and he basically said Sullivan wouldn't be touched with a 10 foot pole with help from UK or U of L. And UK has it's fingers in every pharmacy in the state, including all the rotation sites. I'll bet money that they won't get accredited namely because they won't want to spend the money to set the school up properly, hire the right people and make enough connections across the state support wise.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

The dean at UK actually talked about this to some of us. He thinks it will be a joke and they won't be successful. UK is in talks with U of L to set up a school with them (or at least send rotating students their way) and he basically said Sullivan wouldn't be touched with a 10 foot pole with help from UK or U of L. And UK has it's fingers in every pharmacy in the state, including all the rotation sites. I'll bet money that they won't get accredited namely because they won't want to spend the money to set the school up properly, hire the right people and make enough connections across the state support wise.

I wish UK would set up a PharmD site in Louisville. They could fill it tomorrow.
I'm hoping to do ALL my 4th year rotations in Louisville.