New PhD program - problems?

[tomorrowforgotten]

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I've applied to a brand new doctoral program - if accepted, I will be a part of their very first class. What problems, if any, should I potentially be aware of and what things should I ask?

I was told by my potential PI that they will apply for contigency status in 2019 and will offer a masters along the way. The masters program is pretty solid if that makes any difference.

 

[MCParent]

Removed; APA has apparently started letting doc programs get accredited on contingency.

 

[deleted343839]

Bottom line is there's no way to tell what the future holds for this program. If you were to graduate before the program receives APA accreditation, you'd run into a lot of problems that graduates of APA-accredited programs never have to think about. So you should exhaust your other options before even considering a brand new program. In the end it might turn out OK, but it might not, and you'd be far the first trainee to be promised something that a program can't deliver.

If you do consider taking the risk, here are a few things to ask: How many of the faculty have current external grant funding (esp. important if this is a PhD)? What percentage are licensed to practice psychology? How many of the faculty have been previously affiliated with APA accredited programs? Does the program have an in-house training clinic? What practicum opportunities are available? Are there related programs at the institution (eg, in counseling or school psychology) that are already accredited? How many students does the program plan to accept per cohort? What is the program's plan for applying for APA accreditation, and what are the obstacles that might interfere with that plan? Last but not least, what funding is available for graduate students?

 

[tomorrowforgotten]

Bottom line is there's no way to tell what the future holds for this program. If you were to graduate before the program receives APA accreditation, you'd run into a lot of problems that graduates of APA-accredited programs never have to think about. So you should exhaust your other options before even considering a brand new program. In the end it might turn out OK, but it might not, and you'd be far the first trainee to be promised something that a program can't deliver.

If you do consider taking the risk, here are a few things to ask: How many of the faculty have current external grant funding (esp. important if this is a PhD)? What percentage are licensed to practice psychology? How many of the faculty have been previously affiliated with APA accredited programs? Does the program have an in-house training clinic? What practicum opportunities are available? Are there related programs at the institution (eg, in counseling or school psychology) that are already accredited? How many students does the program plan to accept per cohort? What is the program's plan for applying for APA accreditation, and what are the obstacles that might interfere with that plan? Last but not least, what funding is available for graduate students?

Thank you for your detailed response! I was fortunate enough to get 4 other interview offers -- but I do really like the school and wanted some advice. I did ask some of the questions you mentioned and I will respond below:

3 of the falculty have external grant funding, including my potential PI. I don't the exact number who are liscensed, but I know at least 5. The program is currently building an in house clinic which would be ready by Fall 2017. They have set up practicum placements with at least 3 places that I know of. They plan to accept 5 students for their first cohort and the program would be fully funded with a stipend of $20,000.

 

[tomorrowforgotten]

You PI is either lying to you or enormously misinformed. Doctoral programs cannot apply for contingent accreditation. Only internships or post-docs can.

Either way, I'd run.

http://www.apa.org/ed/accreditation/newsletter/spring-actions.aspx

I appreciate this -- I will ask for clarification on what they meant by contingency status.

 

[metta.cognition]

This page seems to acknowledge the possibility of doctoral programs being granted "accredited, on contingency" status:

http://www.apa.org/ed/accreditation/about/coa/decoding.aspx

And elaborates in a way that would give a student of those programs some reassurance:


"If you complete a program that is recognized as “accredited, on contingency” effective before your graduation date, you will have completed an APA accredited program."

 

[deleted343839]

3 of the falculty have external grant funding, including my potential PI. I don't the exact number who are liscensed, but I know at least 5. The program is currently building an in house clinic which would be ready by Fall 2017. They have set up practicum placements with at least 3 places that I know of. They plan to accept 5 students for their first cohort and the program would be fully funded with a stipend of $20,000.

Those are all encouraging signs. I don't know the success rate of new accreditation applications - anyone else know?

 

[MCParent]

This page seems to acknowledge the possibility of doctoral programs being granted "accredited, on contingency" status:

http://www.apa.org/ed/accreditation/about/coa/decoding.aspx

And elaborates in a way that would give a student of those programs some reassurance:


"If you complete a program that is recognized as “accredited, on contingency” effective before your graduation date, you will have completed an APA accredited program."

Ugh. They've gone back and forth on allowing doc programs to do this but youre right, looks like now it is allowed.

Multiple external funded people at an unaccredited site? That's weird. I'd want to know a lot more about this before agreeing, and get the proposed financial package in writing.

 

[tomorrowforgotten]

Ugh. They've gone back and forth on allowing doc programs to do this but youre right, looks like now it is allowed.

Multiple external funded people at an unaccredited site? That's weird. I'd want to know a lot more about this before agreeing, and get the proposed financial package in writing.

Could you please elaborate on that first part? Obviously, I don't know a ton about this so I'd like to know what is weird about it.

 

[MCParent]

Could you please elaborate on that first part? Obviously, I don't know a ton about this so I'd like to know what is weird about it.

It's just unusual. Not necessarily bad. Just look into that, e.g., did they say "we have lots of external funding" but really they have 5 $3000 awards?