New SDN article on Ross

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RogueUnicorn

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Members don't see this ad.
http://www.studentdoctor.net/2010/09/interview-dean-colman-ross-university-medical-school

Questions like..

"For half a century, American medical schools have emphasized selecting students whom they have “predetermined” (through criteria like high MCAT scores) will do well on specific tests and are not likely to drop out of medical school for academic reasons. Although some would regard this as common sense, others have long argued that this approach excludes exactly those students who would be the right match for rural and underserved communities. Do you agree that the admissions policies of most American medical schools exclude many candidates who should be accepted?"

oh gee i wonder what the dean of ross would have to say to that..


"As a person with experience teaching medical students in American medical schools, do you see advantages to teaching in the Caribbean as opposed to a regular medical school on the mainland?"

straight up advert question..

Seems like there were mostly softball questions, which is kind of disappointing. Nothing specific about attrittion or pressing for the accuracy of their numbers etc. Would have appreciated more direct questions about the Congressional interest in their dropout rates and some better followups when the dean obviously dances around the subject. juss sayin.
 

apumic

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http://www.studentdoctor.net/2010/09/interview-dean-colman-ross-university-medical-school

Questions like..

"For half a century, American medical schools have emphasized selecting students whom they have “predetermined” (through criteria like high MCAT scores) will do well on specific tests and are not likely to drop out of medical school for academic reasons. Although some would regard this as common sense, others have long argued that this approach excludes exactly those students who would be the right match for rural and underserved communities. Do you agree that the admissions policies of most American medical schools exclude many candidates who should be accepted?"

oh gee i wonder what the dean of ross would have to say to that..


"As a person with experience teaching medical students in American medical schools, do you see advantages to teaching in the Caribbean as opposed to a regular medical school on the mainland?"

straight up advert question..

Seems like there were mostly softball questions, which is kind of disappointing. Nothing specific about attrittion or pressing for the accuracy of their numbers etc. Would have appreciated more direct questions about the Congressional interest in their dropout rates and some better followups when the dean obviously dances around the subject. juss sayin.


Ross helps FUND SDN (via ads). The fact of the matter is that an SDN article telling THE TRUTH about Ross would hurt SDN financially. It's a conflict of interest.
 

RogueUnicorn

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SDN gets google ads, the ads themselves are not controlled by SDN.

and if it in fact is a conflict of interest, proper journalistic standards would require a statement of this conflict... or it should just not be written.
 

Mbeas

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In 2009, Ross students had a 90% first-time USLME Step 1 passing rate (comparable U.S. medical schools 94%).

cool, huh?
 

BBender716

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cool, huh?
Can we get a percent of students who originally enroll in Ross who go on to take Step I? There may be some self-selection bias there (e.g., students who know they feel prepared enough to take Step I are the ones who took it).
 

wanderer

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What's a comparable medical school exactly? Also notice how they said they require "good" MCAT scores. A 24 isn't a "good score" considering that an 8 in every section (assuming a balanced score) indicates clear weaknesses.
 

gravitywave

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Can we get a percent of students who originally enroll in Ross who go on to take Step I? There may be some self-selection bias there (e.g., students who know they feel prepared enough to take Step I are the ones who took it).

i believe it's more like the school won't sponsor you to sit for Step I unless they are reasonably sure you'll pass. everyone else gets kicked out.

Ross is owned by DeVry. nuf said.
 

JonathanMD

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Can we get a percent of students who originally enroll in Ross who go on to take Step I? There may be some self-selection bias there (e.g., students who know they feel prepared enough to take Step I are the ones who took it).

The January 2010 class started with roughly 500 1st semester students. Roughly 200 of those students either failed out or chose not to come back and 38 students had to repeat 1st semester.

The May 2010 class started with roughly 270 1st semester students. It looks like only about 30 students either failed out or chose not to come back. And it looks like only a very few students had to repeat.

That doesn't answer your question directly, but it's kind of hard to answer that question. As of May, Ross has cut the classes sizes in half (presumably raising the admissions standards in the process...?) and as of this current semester, the entire curriculum has switched over to a "Organ Based" program.

But you're right, there is a big drop off of students who never pass 1st semester. Then a few students here or there drop off in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. But of the students that are still around and able to take the Step, they do very well. There's a little more attrition from 2nd-4th, but if you make it past 1st, there's a pretty good chance you're going to make it all the way.

I'm not sure about that "self-selection" theory. Not sure why someone would want to dump $100,000 into this place and not take the Step -- because they want to sacrifice their future and their money all in the name of bumping Ross' pass rate statistics?


(edit: Also, I think this is in the wrong forum.)
 
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BBender716

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The January 2010 class started with roughly 500 1st semester students. Roughly 200 of those students either failed out or chose not to come back and 38 students had to repeat 1st semester.

The May 2010 class started with roughly 270 1st semester students. It looks like only about 30 students either failed out or chose not to come back. And it looks like only a very few students had to repeat.

That doesn't answer your question directly, but it's kind of hard to answer that question. As of May, Ross has cut the classes sizes in half (presumably raising the admissions standards in the process...?) and as of this current semester, the entire curriculum has switched over to a "Organ Based" program.

But you're right, there is a big drop off of students who never pass 1st semester. Then a few students here or there drop off in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. But of the students that are still around and able to take the Step, they do very well. There's a little more attrition from 2nd-4th, but if you make it past 1st, there's a pretty good chance you're going to make it all the way.

I'm not sure about that "self-selection" theory. Not sure why someone would want to dump $100,000 into this place and not take the Step -- because they want to sacrifice their future and their money all in the name of bumping Ross' pass rate statistics?


(edit: Also, I think this is in the wrong forum.)
That's basically what I'm getting at, though. This is off the cuff, but I would venture to say >90% of US MD students who enroll as M1s wind up taking Step I. Not to say that all of the Ross students who, for one reason or another, did not wind up taking Step I wouldn't pass, but I do think a sizable amount would not pass, thus greatly skewing the "pass rate" that Ross touts, especially if your estimates are correct about how many fail to make it to Step I (wash out).

It would be similar if US MD schools admitted a significantly greater amount of students, weeded them out over M1/M2 and the ones left standing were the high achievers/highly motivated left to take Step I.
 
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