New York Times editorial board comes out against legacy admissions

[MyOdyssey]

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Opinion | End Legacy College Admissions (Published 2019)

A country struggling with deeply rooted inequality need not continue an affirmative action program for successful families.

www.nytimes.com

I never thought I'd see the New York Times come out against college legacy admissions so strongly.

I wonder what difference it will make.

 

[Engrailed]

Preach

There is no valid reason for having legacy-related policies.
Zero contributory factor toward the reset of society.

 

[907914]

Inb4 this becomes a URM thread

 

[MyOdyssey]

And I wonder about the effect on legacy admissions in medicine.

 

[Lucca]

And I wonder about the effect on legacy admissions in medicine.

I don’t think there is evidence to suggest that there exists a significant, direct benefit to the applicant for being a legacy medical school applicant. That said, UG legacy admissions definitely has an indirect effect on med school admissions as being legacy at HYPSM and similar institutions will have downstream effects on your preparedness and competitiveness as a Med school applicant, in addition to the benefits you get from instant recognition / networking.

That said, there’s no doubt that children of physicians have a big leg up in the process in general.

Good on the NYT, legacy is dumb.

 

[MyOdyssey]

I don’t think there is evidence to suggest that there exists a significant, direct benefit to the applicant for being a legacy medical school applicant. That said, UG legacy admissions definitely has an indirect effect on med school admissions as being legacy at HYPSM and similar institutions will have downstream effects on your preparedness and competitiveness as a Med school applicant, in addition to the benefits you get from instant recognition / networking.

That said, there’s no doubt that children of physicians have a big leg up in the process in general.

Good on the NYT, legacy is dumb.

Medical school legacy admissions hasn't been studied and scrutinized like legacy admissions in college but I know of mediocre applicants (whose parents were medical faculty) who were able to get admitted.

Theranos, Varsity Blues, The Big Short (financial collapse caused by reckless practices of Wall Street banks), the Ivy-heavy background of the current executive branch political appointee class are all examples of the chickens coming home to roost. It's this backdrop that led to the NYT - a paradigmatic example of an "establishment" institution - to come out against legacy admissions so forcefully.

 

[Lucca]

Medical school legacy admissions hasn't been studied and scrutinized like legacy admissions in college but I know of mediocre applicants (whose parents were medical faculty) who were able to get admitted.

Theranos, Varsity Blues, The Big Short (financial collapse caused by reckless practices of Wall Street banks), the Ivy-heavy background of the current executive branch political appointee class are all examples of the chickens coming home to roost. It's this backdrop that led to the NYT - a paradigmatic example of an "establishment" institution - to come out against legacy admissions so forcefully.

I’d be hesitant to jump to that same conclusion, or connect those disparate events in the same way, but I think the recent college admissions scandal has definitely made people rethink meritocracy. Of course, even if legacy admissions ended tomorrow there are umpteen billion other inequities related to class, race, and geography that will more or less preserve the status quo.

 

[MyOdyssey]

I’d be hesitant to jump to that same conclusion, or connect those disparate events in the same way, but I think the recent college admissions scandal has definitely made people rethink meritocracy. Of course, even if legacy admissions ended tomorrow there are umpteen billion other inequities related to class, race, and geography that will more or less preserve the status quo.

In the Ivies, legacy admits make up around 30% of a given class from what I've read. That's huge.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

May be these legacy admits fund indirectly fund the need based scholarships?

 

[Lucca]

In the Ivies, legacy admits make up around 30% of a given class from what I've read. That's huge.

Yes, which is quite shocking. However this figure does not exist in a vacuum. For example, consider that many top schools have a (...n often overlapping) crop of feeder high schools they are biased to select from. Look at this data from the Harvard Class of 2017 (Source: the Crimson)

The well connected Harvard family who will be denied their legacy boost will still be able to reap the benefits of their pedigree by sending their kids to the “right” schools, connecting them with the “right” advisors, and generally by having knowledge of the elite college admissions metagame. Removing legacy will certainly do *something*, and I suspect it would actually do more at mid tier schools where legacy still has a big effect but there is not as much pressure from other non meritocratic elements like going to the right high school or participating in some prestigious international competition or one of the sports that requires a 7 figure family income to fund.

 

[MyOdyssey]

participating in some prestigious international competition or one of the sports that requires a 7 figure family income to fund.

Doing really well in, say, Math Olympiad or one of the Science Olympiads, is an indicator of merit.

I've always felt that heavy athletic preferences given to sports like crew, field hockey, fencing, squash, sailing, etc. are intended by schools to justify admissions of very wealthy but not terribly qualified applicants.

 

[Cornfed101]

My only problem with this article is using the term “affirmative action” incorrectly... so confusing. Affirmative action is the practice of favoring individuals belonging to groups known to have been discriminated against previously. Legacy and rich whites have always been favored (as an affluent white person I can attest to this).

 

[deleted480308]

It's almost like no one should be getting preferential treatment just because of your ancestors.

 

[BellaEXE]

I would think that this is pretty obvious, but also not a big deal. It's the same thing as me getting a job because I know the right people rather than being chosen from a pool of applicants. You use what advantages you have and try to gain as many advantages as you can. That's just life.

Edit: I understand that its an unfair advantage and yes I wish everything was based purely off of skill but that just isn't possible.

 

[Goro]

It's almost like no one should be getting preferential treatment just because of your ancestors.

Unless those ancestors happen to endow a new Library, School of Pharmacy, or Research lab.

 

[deleted480308]

Unless those ancestors happen to endow a new Library, School of Pharmacy, or Research lab.

Just admit out loud you sold the spot then 😉

 

[Biscuitboy11]

Like to hear one adcom from anywhere say faculty kids don’t get preference (won’t believe them, though)

 

[Goro]

Like to hear one adcom from anywhere say faculty kids don’t get preference (won’t believe them, though)

The most common scenario is that these kids get a polite interview, followed by an even more polite spot on a waitlist, and then an even more polite rejection at the end of the cycle.

 

[BellaEXE]

Unless those ancestors happen to endow a new Library, School of Pharmacy, or Research lab.

My mothers side of the family built the library at the college I'm applying too. I'm 100% going to mention how I'm going to continue furthering both my family legacy and that of the school to get my application accepted 😉

 

[907914]

My mothers side of the family built the library at the college I'm applying too. I'm 100% going to mention how I'm going to continue furthering both my family legacy and that of the school to get my application accepted 😉

My dad dropped out of the rival undergrad of one of the school's I am applying to. Does that count?

 

[Engrailed]

The most common scenario is that these kids get a polite interview, followed by an even more polite spot on a waitlist, and then an even more polite rejection at the end of the cycle.

🤣

 

[imbesrs]

Relevant timestamp

"The question is does legacy play a role? Thats a very sophisticated question as well....[Definition of Legacy]... so it does play a role to a small extent, both on the UG side and in the medical school side...[How legacy is filled out at Stanford]... so out of respect for your family members who have gone before you, lets say at stanford, you will be regarded in the admissions dept in a - its not a separate pool, its a sub pool- and they will look at you in that context. The argument in favor of thinking about legacy is because we already know a bit about you from your genetics, in terms of the performance of who has come before you, uh your parents or siblings or whatever- we will know about them so we will have some inference about you. So we do look at that, specifically....[talking about extensive list of relations to stanford from family to treatment at hospitals]... So there is some legacy factor, and thats true of all schools actually and theres a good argument to be had on both sides of that."

Transcribed for those at work, and because im just that bored lol

 

[MyOdyssey]

Relevant timestamp

"The question is does legacy play a role? Thats a very sophisticated question as well....[Definition of Legacy]... so it does play a role to a small extent, both on the UG side and in the medical school side...[How legacy is filled out at Stanford]... so out of respect for your family members who have gone before you, lets say at stanford, you will be regarded in the admissions dept in a - its not a separate pool, its a sub pool- and they will look at you in that context. The argument in favor of thinking about legacy is because we already know a bit about you from your genetics, in terms of the performance of who has come before you, uh your parents or siblings or whatever- we will know about them so we will have some inference about you. So we do look at that, specifically....[talking about extensive list of relations to stanford from family to treatment at hospitals]... So there is some legacy factor, and thats true of all schools actually and theres a good argument to be had on both sides of that."

Transcribed for those at work, and because im just that bored lol

Genetics?!? Lmao. Because legacy status is the most precise measure of genetics we have out there ... How old is this video anyway?

If the superior genetics of legacy applicants shines through, then their accomplishments would speak for themselves.

There would be no need for a legacy preference.

 

[ndafife]

Genetics?!? Lmao. Because legacy status is the most precise measure of genetics we have out there ... How old is this video anyway?

If the superior genetics of legacy applicants shines through, then their accomplishments would speak for themselves.

There would be no need for a legacy preference.

"$uperior Genetic$"