Newbie with gpa issues

[Member03405]

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Hi,

Like many around here I’ve been seriously considering a career change to medicine and would like to get some feedback on my chances.

I graduated with a BS in exercise physiology with a 3.25 gpa. The beginning of my college career was less than stellar and unfortunately also happens to be when I took most of my science courses, hence my science gpa of 2.89. After undergrad, I did one year toward an exercise physiology masters, with a 3.56 gpa. At the time I was planning for a career in therapy and got accepted into an Occupational Therapy Masters program so I left exercise physiology. However the set-up is a little confusing in terms of gpa as the first 2 years of this 3 year OT Masters program were considered undergrad (made even sillier considering we took courses with PT students which counted as 600 level courses for them but undergrad for us). My first 2 “undergrad” years, my gpa was a 3.93 and my 3rd “grad” year my gpa was a 4.0, good for a 3.95 overall.

Looking at several med schools, it looks like OChem 2 is my last mandatory prereq left but I obviously need to seriously boost my science gpa as well.

I am currently working in an acute rehab setting as an OT and it will be a little while before I could transition back to school. Right now my plan would be to take a year’s worth of courses, including Ochem 2 and several other science courses, to boost my science gpa and prepare myself for the MCAT before applying. I am hoping to take enough science courses to bring up my science gpa to approx 3.2-3.3. I doubt that I would be able to bring it much higher than that in a year or 2.

In terms of experience, I am directly working in healthcare and handling a full caseload of patients with a variety of diagnoses as well as working in collaboration with physicians and other members of the healthcare team. I obviously plan to get direct physician shadowing experience too. I’d like to look for any research opportunities once back in school but have nothing concrete planned in that area right now.

I’m at a point in my life where I know it will take a while for me to even be in a position to apply to med school but I don’t want to end up a lonely 85 year old in a nursing home wondering what could have been. I firmly believe that even if I don’t get accepted I would grow from the entire process but I am also quite determined. Truth be told, being a physician is what I always wanted to do but never believed I could until about a year and a half ago and I won’t be giving up that easily!

What do you think of my realistic chances considering my gpa issues? I feel that DOs would offer me the best chance but could MDs still be an option? What kind of MCAT scores should I realistically be aiming for (vs. min recommended by schools) to at least get some interviews?

I know it’s a long post but any feedback or comments would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the help.

 

[Goro]

MD might not be an option, but DO definitely is. Re-take any F/D/C science coursework and you're good to go.

Hi,

Like many around here I’ve been seriously considering a career change to medicine and would like to get some feedback on my chances.

I graduated with a BS in exercise physiology with a 3.25 gpa. The beginning of my college career was less than stellar and unfortunately also happens to be when I took most of my science courses, hence my science gpa of 2.89. After undergrad, I did one year toward an exercise physiology masters, with a 3.56 gpa. At the time I was planning for a career in therapy and got accepted into an Occupational Therapy Masters program so I left exercise physiology. However the set-up is a little confusing in terms of gpa as the first 2 years of this 3 year OT Masters program were considered undergrad (made even sillier considering we took courses with PT students which counted as 600 level courses for them but undergrad for us). My first 2 “undergrad” years, my gpa was a 3.93 and my 3rd “grad” year my gpa was a 4.0, good for a 3.95 overall.

Looking at several med schools, it looks like OChem 2 is my last mandatory prereq left but I obviously need to seriously boost my science gpa as well.

I am currently working in an acute rehab setting as an OT and it will be a little while before I could transition back to school. Right now my plan would be to take a year’s worth of courses, including Ochem 2 and several other science courses, to boost my science gpa and prepare myself for the MCAT before applying. I am hoping to take enough science courses to bring up my science gpa to approx 3.2-3.3. I doubt that I would be able to bring it much higher than that in a year or 2.

In terms of experience, I am directly working in healthcare and handling a full caseload of patients with a variety of diagnoses as well as working in collaboration with physicians and other members of the healthcare team. I obviously plan to get direct physician shadowing experience too. I’d like to look for any research opportunities once back in school but have nothing concrete planned in that area right now.

I’m at a point in my life where I know it will take a while for me to even be in a position to apply to med school but I don’t want to end up a lonely 85 year old in a nursing home wondering what could have been. I firmly believe that even if I don’t get accepted I would grow from the entire process but I am also quite determined. Truth be told, being a physician is what I always wanted to do but never believed I could until about a year and a half ago and I won’t be giving up that easily!

What do you think of my realistic chances considering my gpa issues? I feel that DOs would offer me the best chance but could MDs still be an option? What kind of MCAT scores should I realistically be aiming for (vs. min recommended by schools) to at least get some interviews?

I know it’s a long post but any feedback or comments would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the help.

 

[groundsquirrel]

Yeah dont get discouraged just keep forging ahead. Mental awareness and the ability to focus will help. Look man Im 43, my last 60 hours was a 3.7. If I can do it from a non-science background, you ought to be able to knock it out of the ball park.

**Also there are some very knowledge people on this forum, and the more questions you ask the better off you will be. I believe everyone on here is out to be as helpful as they can be.

 

[Member03405]

Thanks for the encouragements! I really do appreciate it. It's great to be able to share my story somewhere without feeling like a lunatic lol.

Unfortunately I'm not entirely sure retaking courses would help me that much as I already had to retake my first physics, bio and inorganic chem early on in my college career due to my struggles at the time. I don't know if the grade replacement policy would still apply and even if it did, pressure would be on to get straight As or pretty much fail. Getting a B wouldn't help my gpa much and definitely not impress any admission committee.

I'd like to show that I can handle high level science courses beyond those pre-req, which I know I can from the later part of my college/grad school career and my upward gpa trend shows that. To give you a little background, I aced anatomy with cadaver lab twice (was a TA for the course after that), took a neuro-biology course (got a B there) and aced a pharmacology course. However all the courses have classification codes putting them in the Health Sciences category for AMCAS. I was thinking about taking OChem 2, along with biochem, genetics and cell biology (recommended by many schools) as well as a couple other science courses to boost that science gpa up.

Anybody ever had to raise a low science gpa where retakes might not have helped that much? I know I'd have to take hard science courses so I'm not trying to shy away from that but I do want to make sure my time and money would be well spent on courses truly helping my cause. Any ideas are definitely welcome!

 

[lall]

MD might not be an option, but DO definitely is. Re-take any F/D/C science coursework and you're good to go.

Goro, I mean this in the most respectful way possible, but I really hope my application never lands on your desk for a decision. You are seriously one of the most "stat" loving people I've ever seen on these threads. Unfortunately for non-trads and academic enhancers, your reputation and position give your advice some weight and because of that, you are highly discouraging.

If I had posted a WAMC (or whatever they call those chance me threads), you would have told me I had no shot, and that I needed to apply DO or GTFO. But now my sub-par stat, non-URM self is sitting on a UCSF, GW, and Northwestern invite. No, not acceptances, but more than you would have thought I could get at. I hope you really think about the impact of your statements before you make them, because I'm sure a lot of people who could be amazing MDs are discouraged by your "nope, apply DO" responses.

I really mean no disrespect, just asking for some empathy.


Anyway, OP, keep at it, rock the MCAT and come back with a success story.

 

[477552]

Hi,

Like many around here I've been seriously considering a career change to medicine and would like to get some feedback on my chances.

I graduated with a BS in exercise physiology with a 3.25 gpa. The beginning of my college career was less than stellar and unfortunately also happens to be when I took most of my science courses, hence my science gpa of 2.89. After undergrad, I did one year toward an exercise physiology masters, with a 3.56 gpa. At the time I was planning for a career in therapy and got accepted into an Occupational Therapy Masters program so I left exercise physiology. However the set-up is a little confusing in terms of gpa as the first 2 years of this 3 year OT Masters program were considered undergrad (made even sillier considering we took courses with PT students which counted as 600 level courses for them but undergrad for us). My first 2 "undergrad" years, my gpa was a 3.93 and my 3rd "grad" year my gpa was a 4.0, good for a 3.95 overall.

Looking at several med schools, it looks like OChem 2 is my last mandatory prereq left but I obviously need to seriously boost my science gpa as well.

I am currently working in an acute rehab setting as an OT and it will be a little while before I could transition back to school. Right now my plan would be to take a year's worth of courses, including Ochem 2 and several other science courses, to boost my science gpa and prepare myself for the MCAT before applying. I am hoping to take enough science courses to bring up my science gpa to approx 3.2-3.3. I doubt that I would be able to bring it much higher than that in a year or 2.

In terms of experience, I am directly working in healthcare and handling a full caseload of patients with a variety of diagnoses as well as working in collaboration with physicians and other members of the healthcare team. I obviously plan to get direct physician shadowing experience too. I'd like to look for any research opportunities once back in school but have nothing concrete planned in that area right now.

I'm at a point in my life where I know it will take a while for me to even be in a position to apply to med school but I don't want to end up a lonely 85 year old in a nursing home wondering what could have been. I firmly believe that even if I don't get accepted I would grow from the entire process but I am also quite determined. Truth be told, being a physician is what I always wanted to do but never believed I could until about a year and a half ago and I won't be giving up that easily!

What do you think of my realistic chances considering my gpa issues? I feel that DOs would offer me the best chance but could MDs still be an option? What kind of MCAT scores should I realistically be aiming for (vs. min recommended by schools) to at least get some interviews?

I know it's a long post but any feedback or comments would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the help.

MD schools are an option. I know, because my GPA was worse and I'm in an MD program right now.

As for how your GPA was calculated, what's really going to matter is how AMCAS calculates it. I believe that they have worksheets for you to do a practice calc. Regardless, I think that post-bacc classes (especially in upper-division biology) will be absolutely valuable, both in boosting your uGPA (post-baccs count towards undergrad GPA, even after graduation) and to prep you for med school. I can't count the number of times I've been grateful that the adcom in my school pushed me to take more upper-div bio. Saving my butt now, because the pace is insane and it's a lot more stressful if you haven't seen it before. I actually didn't re-take any low grades... the adcom at my school said it wasn't worth the time (that may not be true for all schools). I just focused on coursework that I hadn't taken before.

Your MCAT score will be important, so definitely take the time to work your butt off for a great one. Between strong post-bacc grades, a good MCAT score, extracurriculars, and your healthcare experience, you'll be one heck of a candidate. Good luck!

 

[Goro]

1) I'm not making news, I'm just reporting it, because....

2) You don't think Deans like high MCAT scores and GPAs?

3) OP didn't come here for hugs and kisses, but REALISTIC advice on his/her chances. Rah-rah pollyannas who say "you can do it my friend got into Harvard with a 1.0 GPA and a 3 MCAT score, so you can do it too!" are doing applicants no favors.

4) I see plenty of people who get II's and then get rejected, because the AdCOM say "nice guy/gal, but I'm concerned about that MCAT score"

5) OP has not demonstrated just yet that s/he has a serious (ie, >10% chance) chance at MD schools due to that seriously deficient sGPA. However, there are MD schools that believe in redemption.

6) You are not OP. n=1 is worthless. Just because you won the Lotto doesn't mean it's likely that Op should buy a ticket.

Goro, I mean this in the most respectful way possible, but I really hope my application never lands on your desk for a decision. You are seriously one of the most "stat" loving people I've ever seen on these threads. Unfortunately for non-trads and academic enhancers, your reputation and position give your advice some weight and because of that, you are highly discouraging.

If I had posted a WAMC (or whatever they call those chance me threads), you would have told me I had no shot, and that I needed to apply DO or GTFO. But now my sub-par stat, non-URM self is sitting on a UCSF, GW, and Northwestern invite. No, not acceptances, but more than you would have thought I could get at. I hope you really think about the impact of your statements before you make them, because I'm sure a lot of people who could be amazing MDs are discouraged by your "nope, apply DO" responses.

I really mean no disrespect, just asking for some empathy.


Anyway, OP, keep at it, rock the MCAT and come back with a success story.

 

[Member03405]

I decided to sit down one more time to calculate my sGPA using AMCAS criteria, thinking it wouldn't be much different than what I had initially computed. Boy was I wrong :/

As mentioned before, I started off quite poorly in college and took the bulk of my science courses then. My school offers a D/F repeat policy within the first 60 undergrad credits and I took advantage of that as the time. I did not realize until today that those initial Ds would be included by AMCAS since I was under the impression they would be altogether removed from my transcripts, which they are not (just not included in gpa calculations by my school). So now my BCPM gpa dropped to an abysmal 2.47 with all these courses taken between 2003 and 2008. Looks like I will need to take a full course load for at least 2 years with straight As to even sniff a 3.0. I knew that sGPA would be an issue but clearly vastly underestimated how big a hole I had dug myself into.

I really wouldn't be able to move or afford a formal post-bacc so I'd have to put together my own so to speak. I'll keep looking at the various academic enhancing threads but any suggestions here would be greatly appreciated. I thought I had a fairly good idea of what needed to be done but this is definitely a disappointment.

 

[deleted480308]

Goro is right, MD is a sstatistical reach at this point. A mid 30 mcat is avg at many MD schools and then your gpa is really subpar for them. Your ugpa is still a little low for most DO but the stat requirements aren't as steep and a mid/high 20 mcat is avg.

You can do like I did if you have a few hundred to burn. 3.0/31 md and 3.1/31 DO. I applied to 15 do schools, specifically choosing for prereqs that fit my classes (I'm a nontrad nonscience major) and low stats. My 31 means I'm smart, smart enough to know how damaging my gpa is. Then just for the chance it might work, applied to my state MD schools and 2 hbcu schools (7total, I hate the miami area)

6 ii at DO schools, got accepted to my first and cancelled the others after due to liking the school and not having money to fly everywhere for fun

Zero, that's zero ii at MD so far, two outright rejections so far and still in purgatory for the others. i'm from florida so none of my state schools are particularly ranked, but they are MD. Just know if you spendthat money you aren't getting it back. I don't regret it because i budgeted for it, but it didn't work for me yet and statisticaly it never should have. As goro referenced earlier, that amcas money was a lottery ticket

 

[477552]

I decided to sit down one more time to calculate my sGPA using AMCAS criteria, thinking it wouldn't be much different than what I had initially computed. Boy was I wrong :/

As mentioned before, I started off quite poorly in college and took the bulk of my science courses then. My school offers a D/F repeat policy within the first 60 undergrad credits and I took advantage of that as the time. I did not realize until today that those initial Ds would be included by AMCAS since I was under the impression they would be altogether removed from my transcripts, which they are not (just not included in gpa calculations by my school). So now my BCPM gpa dropped to an abysmal 2.47 with all these courses taken between 2003 and 2008. Looks like I will need to take a full course load for at least 2 years with straight As to even sniff a 3.0. I knew that sGPA would be an issue but clearly vastly underestimated how big a hole I had dug myself into.

I really wouldn't be able to move or afford a formal post-bacc so I'd have to put together my own so to speak. I'll keep looking at the various academic enhancing threads but any suggestions here would be greatly appreciated. I thought I had a fairly good idea of what needed to be done but this is definitely a disappointment.

Yikes. I'm sorry to hear.

Yeah, the D's get counted. That was hard for me, too. The big thing about doing this as a non-trad (especially one with "blemishes", so to speak) is time. I took three years for the journey. I don't think the fat lady has sung for you, but it will be a hard road. I can also tell you that no matter what, if you want it really badly, the journey will be worth it in the end. It'll be a long one and it'll cost a lot (not just financially). You have some difficult decisions to make and I know that feeling of not wanting to grow old not knowing what might have been.

As for post-baccs, I DIY'd mine. Went to my alma mater, since I still lived in the same city. Went through their Extension (adult education) program and took undergrad classes through what they called concurrent enrollment. All undergrad courses taken after graduation still get added to your uGPA. For me, this was the cheapest option.

MCAT-wise, I took a prep course while working full-time. I don't recommend it. I did just fine (balanced 32S), but I could have done waaay better if I had done two things 1) taken time off to focus on the MCAT and 2) taken it after my post-bacc work. As to why I didn't take it until after post-bacc work, look for my post in the low GPA success story thread. That thread is also full of good info on how people tackled post-baccs, etc.

The cards are stacked against you and there's little room for mistakes from this point forward. I was in a very similar boat, chose to dance the dance, and made it to the other side. It was worth every moment, but it wasn't easy. I wish you all of the best and hope it works out for you!

 

[deleted480308]

Retake till you get those gpas to 3.0 and higher

 

[Member03405]

Thanks for all the responses! It's been a bit of a crazy day but I'm slowly wrapping my mind around all this. Can't change the past so all I can do is stay patient, put a good plan together and execute when I do get the opportunity.

I do have one more question regarding re-takes. I currently have several BCPM courses which aren't prereqs (i.e. school requirements, credits lost in school transfer and major requirements) but are dragging my gpa down. For example I had to take a pre-intro chem course to get into inorganic chem 1. I got a D in it, was able to test into inorganic chem 1 only to get a D there too lol. Anyway, my actual prereqs, excluding those misc courses, shape something up like this:

BIO 1 - Got a D, retook it and got a B
BIO 2 - B
Physiology - took 2 courses and got Bs in both
General Chem 1 - D, retook and got a C
General Chem 2 - C
OChem 1 - B
OChem 2 - yet to be taken
Physics 1- D, retook and got an A
Physics 2 - B
Math - I got Bs in trig and stats, waiting on transcripts to come in to see if I got an A or B in algebra (can't remember for the life of me, was 10 years ago!)

I figured I'd have to retake my general chem courses and I still need OChem 2. From there, should I retake all the other prereqs, except maybe physics 1, and then add a few extras (i.e. higher level bio, biochem, genetics etc)? OR should I got ahead and leave those Bs alone, and rather go straight to the higher level bio, biochem, genetics, immunology etc?

I realize to bring that gpa up I will need so many credit hours and quality points, regardless of which courses they come from within the BCPM categories. But I'm also wondering what admission folks would look at most favorably and what would prepare me best for both the MCAT and med school itself.

Thanks again!

 

[477552]

Thanks for all the responses! It's been a bit of a crazy day but I'm slowly wrapping my mind around all this. Can't change the past so all I can do is stay patient, put a good plan together and execute when I do get the opportunity.

I do have one more question regarding re-takes. I currently have several BCPM courses which aren't prereqs (i.e. school requirements, credits lost in school transfer and major requirements) but are dragging my gpa down. For example I had to take a pre-intro chem course to get into inorganic chem 1. I got a D in it, was able to test into inorganic chem 1 only to get a D there too lol. Anyway, my actual prereqs, excluding those misc courses, shape something up like this:

BIO 1 - Got a D, retook it and got a B
BIO 2 - B
Physiology - took 2 courses and got Bs in both
General Chem 1 - D, retook and got a C
General Chem 2 - C
OChem 1 - B
OChem 2 - yet to be taken
Physics 1- D, retook and got an A
Physics 2 - B
Math - I got Bs in trig and stats, waiting on transcripts to come in to see if I got an A or B in algebra (can't remember for the life of me, was 10 years ago!)

I figured I'd have to retake my general chem courses and I still need OChem 2. From there, should I retake all the other prereqs, except maybe physics 1, and then add a few extras (i.e. higher level bio, biochem, genetics etc)? OR should I got ahead and leave those Bs alone, and rather go straight to the higher level bio, biochem, genetics, immunology etc?

I realize to bring that gpa up I will need so many credit hours and quality points, regardless of which courses they come from within the BCPM categories. But I'm also wondering what admission folks would look at most favorably and what would prepare me best for both the MCAT and med school itself.

Thanks again!

My school specifically told me not to retake, especially not Bs. They said just to go for the higher-level courses. In my case, they were right... I didn't feel that my low grades in those very early pre-recs ever had an impact on my post-bacc work. As an M1 slaving over a crazy molecular cell bio course right now, those upper-level courses are saving my butt. The upper level ones would also be helpful in the MCAT... you'll get plenty of review of the lower-level stuff through a prep course.

This may not be applicable to every school, so I recommend talking to schools to see what they would like to see. Unfortunately, there are a lot of medical schools out there who won't talk to active applicants, let alone those who haven't applied yet. Call and the worst they can say is no.

I looked back on the thread and I don't think you mentioned how long you've been out of school. The longer it's been, the more likely certain schools will overlook old grades in light of smashing post-bacc ones. My school didn't like too much time between your last batch of classes (be it undergrad, grad, or post-bacc) and start of med school, which makes sense since it's so intense. So, they were willing to give less credence to grades that were 4+ years or older, especially if you have stellar current grades.

 

[Member03405]

Thanks! I'm def a bit hesitant at the idea of retaking those courses I got Bs in. Although I have to admit some of that is tied to the bad memories of early college struggles they tend to bring back.

All those were taken between 2003 and 2008 (bulk of it 07 and older). I finished grad school in 2012 and will likely not be able to get back to school for another couple years (2015 at the earliest, may be 2016). So I will have been out of school at least 3 years, maybe 4 before taking a new batch of courses. Those prereqs will be at least 7 years old and up to 12/13 years for the very first ones.

Several things have to fall into place before I can give this an honest shot but time flies and I want to make sure I have a general outline of what needs to be done when the time comes. I def do better when I set goals for myself. I'm just wanting to lay the foundation for now, without getting too carried away! I do plan on contacting schools directly when the time comes. Like you said, it doesn't hurt to try and at least get some advice/feedback, however sparse it may be.

 

[477552]

Thanks! I'm def a bit hesitant at the idea of retaking those courses I got Bs in. Although I have to admit some of that is tied to the bad memories of early college struggles they tend to bring back.

All those were taken between 2003 and 2008 (bulk of it 07 and older). I finished grad school in 2012 and will likely not be able to get back to school for another couple years (2015 at the earliest, may be 2016). So I will have been out of school at least 3 years, maybe 4 before taking a new batch of courses. Those prereqs will be at least 7 years old and up to 12/13 years for the very first ones.

Several things have to fall into place before I can give this an honest shot but time flies and I want to make sure I have a general outline of what needs to be done when the time comes. I def do better when I set goals for myself. I'm just wanting to lay the foundation for now, without getting too carried away! I do plan on contacting schools directly when the time comes. Like you said, it doesn't hurt to try and at least get some advice/feedback, however sparse it may be.

I think you're doing an awesome thing by learning as much as you can. I took the MCAT and applied 😱 before learning all of the post-bacc/what I should have done stuff. One helpful tip: if you don't have one, get an Interfolio account and bank those LORs.

Patience is also a good thing, but remember... sometimes, there would never be a good time. Even if those things don't all fall into place, there may come a time to just take that leap of faith. 🙂