Next Door Neighbor Surgeon

[KingTutATL]

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I've always known that my next door neighbor was a plastic surgeon but I had never really looked into the matter before my interest in medicine. What astounded me was his website. Atlanta Plastics. Just look at his credentials:

Emory University BA 4 years
Medical College of Georgia MD 4 years
University of Canterbury, New Zealand DBA 1 year
Oxford University, England BA-MA 2 years
Surgery Internship, Charleston SC 1 year
General Surgery, Baltimore Maryland 1 year
Johns Hopkins for ENT and Facial and Reconstructive Surgery 3 years
Instructor at Johns Hopkins 1 year
Stanford Plastic Surgery 2 years
Paris, France, Fullbright Fellowship 1 year
California Ear Institute Associate 1 year
Stanford University Hospital Associate Medical Staff 1 year

18 years of medical training. The funny thing is that I don't live in a rich neighborhood. He drives an old Bronco and lives a very modest life. His wife died several years ago so i think he's pretty generous with his money. Is that the kind of regular post-med school track for a plastic surgeon?

 

[supercut]

No, I would say that this is not typical. In fact, I'm not sure he's a plastic surgeon. He may be ENT that is doing facial reconstruction.

Notice that he has a year of internship and 1 year of surgery residency listed, both at different institutions, and then 3 years of ENT at a 3rd institiution.

Plastic surgeons typically have 5 years of general surgery (typically done all in one place after med school) and then 2-3 years of fellowship. Or a few may be in intergrated plastic surgery programs which would be 6-7 years at one place.

I bet he was willing to discuss his background with you, you'd learn that he had some kind of difficulty getting into the career path he wanted. I say that because the fact that he did one year of internship in SC then 1 year gen surgery in Maryland then 3 years ENT at hopkins. This makes me think that perhaps he didn't match intitally and had to scramble around outside of the match.

The international time is not typical at all.

And not everyone who has a sizable income spends all their money on big houses and flashy cars. He's probably got a significant net worth. (read the book The Millionaire Next Door...you'll find that most people with a significant net worth live modestly and save money instead of spending all they make to appear wealthy)

 

[doc05]

Yes, he is a plastic surgeon. The path to plastics can include (1) integrated/combined; (2) gen surg then plastics; (3) ENT, ortho, even neurosurg, then plastics. I think the Stanford Plastic Surgery training, plus "double board certified" is the real tip-off, though.

 

[KingTutATL]

He is supposedly one of the best surgeons in the world for Ear reconstruction.

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

If I trained that long, I hope I'd be amazing at something 😉

Just givin you a hard time, bud.

 

[Apollyon]

No, I would say that this is not typical. In fact, I'm not sure he's a plastic surgeon. He may be ENT that is doing facial reconstruction.

Notice that he has a year of internship and 1 year of surgery residency listed, both at different institutions, and then 3 years of ENT at a 3rd institiution.

Plastic surgeons typically have 5 years of general surgery (typically done all in one place after med school) and then 2-3 years of fellowship. Or a few may be in intergrated plastic surgery programs which would be 6-7 years at one place.

I bet he was willing to discuss his background with you, you'd learn that he had some kind of difficulty getting into the career path he wanted. I say that because the fact that he did one year of internship in SC then 1 year gen surgery in Maryland then 3 years ENT at hopkins. This makes me think that perhaps he didn't match intitally and had to scramble around outside of the match.

The international time is not typical at all.

Wow...you sound a little bitter. What it looks like (from this page) is that this fellow did ENT, then a plastics fellowship. You're applying a mentality for today to someone who, even if he just finished last year, would have started in 1984 - and times change.

I mean, the the ABPS and ABO have certified him, so he's done enough training in their eyes.

The international time is not typical, but neither is it a "red flag" - hell, one of the CT guys at Duke did a year of transplant in the UK - after having been a Howard Hughes scholar.

 

[KingTutATL]

what is the average time spent after completion of medical school to become a practicing ENT surgeon? 7, 8, 9 years?

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

what is the average time spent after completion of medical school to become a practicing ENT surgeon? 7, 8, 9 years?

I believe it takes 5 years... 1 year of preliminary general surgery followed by 4 years of straight ENT training.

 

[navysurgeon]

Its an interesting career path to analyze...

"Surgery Internship, Charleston SC 1 year
General Surgery, Baltimore Maryland 1 year
Johns Hopkins for ENT and Facial and Reconstructive Surgery 3 years
Instructor at Johns Hopkins 1 year
Stanford Plastic Surgery 2 years"

The guy probably started out with a prelim year in Charleston, and hated it, so moved to Baltimore (Hopkins) for an internship spot (maybe another prelim year), and probably hated general surgery, got picked up into ENT at Hopkins, applied for plastics his chief year, did not match, so had to spend a 'gap' year at Hopkins while he reapplied for plastics, and matched at Stanford...

This is all totally conjecture, but its intersting to think about...one of these days I'll post my bio...it included a long stint in the Navy, which thankfully, has come to an end...plastics starts next year...

 

[CycloneDub]

I've always known that my next door neighbor was a plastic surgeon but I had never really looked into the matter before my interest in medicine. What astounded me was his website. Atlanta Plastics. Just look at his credentials:

Emory University BA 4 years
Medical College of Georgia MD 4 years
University of Canterbury, New Zealand DBA 1 year
Oxford University, England BA-MA 2 years
Surgery Internship, Charleston SC 1 year
General Surgery, Baltimore Maryland 1 year
Johns Hopkins for ENT and Facial and Reconstructive Surgery 3 years
Instructor at Johns Hopkins 1 year
Stanford Plastic Surgery 2 years
Paris, France, Fullbright Fellowship 1 year
California Ear Institute Associate 1 year
Stanford University Hospital Associate Medical Staff 1 year

18 years of medical training. The funny thing is that I don't live in a rich neighborhood. He drives an old Bronco and lives a very modest life. His wife died several years ago so i think he's pretty generous with his money. Is that the kind of regular post-med school track for a plastic surgeon?

I don't see why it is all so hard to figure out.
I could be wrong -- but this is what a couple of attendings let me know was the process in the past.

Back in the day, ENT used to be a program that typically had 2 years of Gen Surg followed by 3-4 years of ENT. They didn't have to be linked at the same institution either. More recently they changed it to 1+4, generally at the same institution.
So, he did his internship for 1 year, did his second year of surgery, and then moved on to ENT at Johns Hopkins. Took one year as an instructor and then decided to do a plastics fellowship (2 years as opposed to 1 year for facial plastics). Afterwards, he did a one year fellowship that dealt with ear reconstruction. Hence, he is a ENT/plastic surgeon who specializes in ear reconstruction. He took a couple of extra years (before residency with NZ and Oxford; after residency with working at JH, Fulbright) but otherwise did the proper course. It takes a long time to be an expert in such a sub-specialized field.

And for anyone else to do it (specifically ear reconstruction) nowadays it would take:
4 yrs BA/BS
4 yrs MD
1+4 yrs for ENT
2 yrs plastics
1 yr ear reconstruction
=16 yrs total

To do just plastics/reconstruction it is 13 yrs integrated vs. 15 yrs (13 + 2 yrs) for non-integrated. And that doesn't count any extra fellowships on top of everything.

CycloneDub
PGY2

 

[Apollyon]

That's one other thing: Hopkins + Stanford + Oxford + Fulbright =/= "didn't match"

 

[doc05]

Its an interesting career path to analyze...

"Surgery Internship, Charleston SC 1 year
General Surgery, Baltimore Maryland 1 year
Johns Hopkins for ENT and Facial and Reconstructive Surgery 3 years
Instructor at Johns Hopkins 1 year
Stanford Plastic Surgery 2 years"

The guy probably started out with a prelim year in Charleston, and hated it, so moved to Baltimore (Hopkins) for an internship spot (maybe another prelim year), and probably hated general surgery, got picked up into ENT at Hopkins, applied for plastics his chief year, did not match, so had to spend a 'gap' year at Hopkins while he reapplied for plastics, and matched at Stanford...

This is all totally conjecture, but its intersting to think about...one of these days I'll post my bio...it included a long stint in the Navy, which thankfully, has come to an end...plastics starts next year...

in the old days, ENT was 2 years surgery + 3 of ENT. It's likely he chose to do internship at a cush private hospital before the required pgy-2 year at JHU, followed by ENT at Hopkins.

The title "Instructor" most likely refers to his Chief Resident Year.

 

[navysurgeon]

in the old days, ENT was 2 years surgery + 3 of ENT. It's likely he chose to do internship at a cush private hospital before the required pgy-2 year at JHU, followed by ENT at Hopkins.

The title "Instructor" most likely refers to his Chief Resident Year.

All true...but one applies for plastics a full one year in advance of the start of training...for example...i matched in may 2005, but won't start until june 2006...so this guy might have applied, not matched, and then re-applied, hence his 'instructor' year...

 

[navysurgeon]

is he a nice guy?

 

[toofache32]

And for anyone else to do it (specifically ear reconstruction) nowadays it would take:
4 yrs BA/BS
4 yrs MD
1+4 yrs for ENT
2 yrs plastics
1 yr ear reconstruction
=16 yrs total

To do just plastics/reconstruction it is 13 yrs integrated vs. 15 yrs (13 + 2 yrs) for non-integrated. And that doesn't count any extra fellowships on top of everything.

CycloneDub
PGY2

I guess if you want to count college, you can also count 12 more years of grade school.

 

[Apollyon]

All true...but one applies for plastics a full one year in advance of the start of training...for example...i matched in may 2005, but won't start until june 2006...so this guy might have applied, not matched, and then re-applied, hence his 'instructor' year...

You're really fixed on the idea that this academically solid guy didn't match, aren't you (or, at least, you've suggested it 2 separate times)? Let's think - what is also an option for fellowships...that a person may not have applied, and decided later to do the plastics fellowship, or, hell, wanted to do what the hell he did.

I don't know the guy from Adam, but I'm half tempted to contact him, tell him about this thread, then see if he would explain it out. I'll bet $100 cash to anyone here that no part of his entire story involves "not matching".

 

[supercut]

People don't match for many reasons. The match sometimes just isn't fair. (and I did match, but I know some very good people who didn't and are now doing fine)

My previous post was NOT bitter. I only meant to inform the original poster that most of the time, plastic surgery does not require that many years of training, and that it would not require as much moving as this partiulcar surgeon must have moved. There are shorter and less complex paths. Spending time internationally is not necessarily good or bad, it's simply not typical of American med school grads. My personal belief is that spending some time internationally is good, and I would do it if I had an opportunity.

I also wanted to correct the orginal poster's implication that all people who make a lot of money live in "rich' are and drive expensive cars. I certanly don't plan to. I'd rather spend my money on doing fun things, rather than accumulating posessions.

 

[KingTutATL]

People don't match for many reasons. The match sometimes just isn't fair. (and I did match, but I know some very good people who didn't and are now doing fine)

My previous post was NOT bitter. I only meant to inform the original poster that most of the time, plastic surgery does not require that many years of training, and that it would not require as much moving as this partiulcar surgeon must have moved. There are shorter and less complex paths. Spending time internationally is not necessarily good or bad, it's simply not typical of American med school grads. My personal belief is that spending some time internationally is good, and I would do it if I had an opportunity.

I also wanted to correct the orginal poster's implication that all people who make a lot of money live in "rich' are and drive expensive cars. I certanly don't plan to. I'd rather spend my money on doing fun things, rather than accumulating posessions.

I was never implying that he drove flashy ferraris or anything. I wasn't ever saying that all people with money flaunt what they have. I just didn't want people to assume that the guy was living in a 5 million dollar house and that I live in one right next to him, but rather that he was living a modest life. No jumping to conclusions. He spends several months a year in France where is wife's family lived. And yes he is a nice guy. One of my other neighbor's daughters recently had a surgery done by him. Something to do with her eyelids which wound up being a 5 1/2 hour surgery.