No chance?

[Boomerangx]

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I'm 37. My undergrad degree is in Marketing. I graduated with a 4.0 from an okay school, not anything to brag about. I've taken Stats for the Behavioral Sciences, Abnormal Psych, General Psych as well as classes such as Consumer Behavior and Marketing Research, which teach many concepts used in psychology.

I want to pursue a PhD in Psychology. I have a novel idea for the treatment of anxiety disorders with exposure therapy. The idea has the interest of a psychiatrist and a social worker. However, I have no research experience and my undergrad is in the wrong major. I don't have a chance do I? Are people ever accepted because their research focus is exceptionally unique or forward-thinking? What can I do to become a better candidate and get research experience?

I feel like I've finally found what I want to do but because I didn't know when I was younger I'm screwed.

My idea for exposure therapy is in development. I'm wondering about showing it to a local prof who specializes in my area. Would this help? Would he give me some guidance?

Any help is appreciated.

 

[erg923]

nope. you will need to get experience. period.

 

[PsychBoxe]

i know individuals who do not have a psychology background and are currently enrolled in a doctoral program. However, these students had some form of work experience in the field. I think that having such a specific focus without comprehensive in psychology will lead professors/admission boards to question where these interests come considering your lack of exposure in the field. I definitely suggest having research or some sort of clinical experience that can support your interests.

 

[Ollie123]

I have to agree with erg, at least if you were to apply right now. A unique, forward-thinking approach is certainly important for acceptance, but lots of people have ideas - grad programs want to see that you have the requisite background and ability to carry those ideas forward. Certain programs would likely accept you as is, but not ones that I would recommend attending, particularly if you are intending to focus on the research process and development of a new intervention.

That said, if you are willing to put in the legwork to get the necessary experiences, there is no reason you couldn't be competitive. Yes, ageism is a concern. It could well close some doors. It could also open others. The challenge will be that age is not a qualification on its own. If you are willing to get those qualifications and are willing/able to put in the time to do so, I don't think there's any reason you "can't" pursue psychology.

 

[Boomerangx]

So how do I get the qualifications and what exactly is needed? Volunteer as a research assistant somewhere? Volunteer at a mental health center? With NAMI? Try to research my idea with the help of one of the professionals who are interested?

And what about speaking to the psychology professor who runs an anxiety clinic? Is speaking to him verboten since he works at the school I would likely apply to?

I want to make this work but I don't know how. I'm willing to put in extra work but what do I need to do?

And yes, a PsyD is out of the question. I was wondering about a PhD in a program such as Norhwestern's Media, Society and Technology degree though. Are there other programs where I still could research this but not with a psychology degree? It seems like you have to have done everything perfectly since birth to get a PhD in psych.

 

[wigflip]

Are there other programs where I still could research this but not with a psychology degree? It seems like you have to have done everything perfectly since birth to get a PhD in psych.

You could get into other doctoral programs with your background (I'm in grad school now, and the only person I know with a 4.0 went into OT), but they wouldn't allow you to do what you want in terms of research. I don't know whether a doctorate in social work (earning an MSW en route) would be a possibility, or whether the work you're proposing really is best pursued within a psychology department. People in your position (motivated but needed a track record in psych) often get a masters in clinical or experimental psych in prep for the doctorate, or find a way to work in a lab.

 

[Boomerangx]

Who do people talk to for advice of they are out of school? Should I talk to the school I'm interested in or talk to someone in psychology at my undergraduate school? I'm wondering where to get advice and counseling on what options are open for me. I have a lot more freedom that most people my age. I have no kids and I am not even married right now. I'd rather work on this idea frankly. I just need to know how.

Thanks for all the advice so far!

 

[PsychPhDone]

I recommend getting research experience in a lab (you will probably have to contact many and offer to volunteer). Preferably, it should be a lab that involves either anxiety psychopathology research or treatment research. Get familiar with research methods through helping with research and consider taking high level research classes through a local university. Immerse yourself in the current literature about exposure therapy for anxiety disorders -- are you sure your idea hasn't been implemented yet?

I'd recommend actually doing research for at least a year before deciding you want the PhD. It's a huge commitment.

 

[Boomerangx]

Yes, I know my idea doesn't exist. There is something similar that just came out for depression but the method of delivery is different.

I can possibly get into a research lab through the local medical school. They have a lot of psychiatrists and work with anxiety.

My fear is I will lose my idea since it is going to take me so long to actually study it.

 

[wigflip]

Yes, I know my idea doesn't exist. There is something similar that just came out for depression but the method of delivery is different.

I can possibly get into a research lab through the local medical school. They have a lot of psychiatrists and work with anxiety.

My fear is I will lose my idea since it is going to take me so long to actually study it.

I've had this happen, and you'll probably find that most other grad students have as well. Most recently, a seminar paper I tried to develop got nixed by the prof, who had some sort of opaque rationale for why it wasn't workable and sent me in another direction entirely. About a year later, my advisor was a reviewer on the empirical paper which someone else wrote on the identical topic. 😡

The good news is that if you have a "mind for research" (ugh, that sounds cheesy, like Melanie Griffith in Working Girl: "I've got a mind for business and a bod for sin.") you'll have multiple ideas, multiple projects. But I admire your sense of motivation and urgency. It's possible that you could pursue your idea now, via a masters program, no?

 

[wigflip]

Having a career in research has to be based on more than just one good idea. You will need the ability to continually generate novel ideas (especially fundable ones if the study or your job requires grant support). Ideas can be good but not fundable and some ideas never come to fruition due to lack of funds to carry them out. It's the nature of academia.

You should slow down, get the requisite experience to make yourself competitive for Ph.D. programs and then go from there.

Ah, you wrote it and hit submit while I was still mulling over how best to phrase it.

But even if OP get's into a doctoral program, there's no guarantee that that exact idea will fly, or that there would be sufficient time to get to it right away (instead of working on mentor's project, etc.).* If the main driving force is the research, why not try to find a masters program where your advisor is on board and gives you the green light?

*This happened to someone I know. Promised that s/he could do "apples," moved across the country, then got stuck working on "bicycles." The most gregarious, easy going person I've ever met, and when asked about the grad school experience: "Well, I'm glad it's over, 'cause I wouldn't do it again..."

 

[ADDICTED2STATS]

I've got a bit different perspective than what has been posted here, so I'll throw out my two cents. I had a similar experience to you. I was a non-trad, married with kids, and had no background in psych. On top of that, I had no research experience at all (zero!). However, I decided I wanted to go to grad school for clinical psych, and I had 1 decent research idea. Thank goodness I didn't know about this forum 7 years ago.

I applied and was accepted to a decent PhD program at a small state school (not a research school by any means). I was determined to make it work. Part of this, of course, means finding a faculty member that is willing to accept you as is. I lucked out in that department. Anyway, I knew I wanted to do research, so I pushed for it. I published quite a bit in grad school and even got some funding as a grad student.

I went on from that small grad program (that is not known for producing researchers), to one of the top research focused internships in the country. I'm typing this post from my office at an R1 (or perhaps the better designation is RU/VH) Clinical Science PhD program where I'm a new assistant professor. It may take some hard work (and some luck); but, don't ever let anyone tell you it's not possible.

 

[Boomerangx]

Having a career in research has to be based on more than just one good idea. You will need the ability to continually generate novel ideas (especially fundable ones if the study or your job requires grant support). Ideas can be good but not fundable and some ideas never come to fruition due to lack of funds to carry them out. It's the nature of academia.

You should slow down, get the requisite experience to make yourself competitive for Ph.D. programs and then go from there.

I guess I should state that I come from a family of PhDs and MDs. I have seen the horrors of academia. I am also aware that you need more than one good idea. I have two ideas at present. One I'm working on now but want to research its effectiveness and see how it could be better implemented. The other idea was just published for use in depressive patients, but again, my idea is aimed at a different population. Also, my method of delivery is different. It is more cost effective and more accessible.

I hear you on slowing down. It just feels time sensitive to me. While I see nothing in the literature about my ideas now, I'm sure they will be coming, especially due to this recent study on depressive disorders.

Also, I'm just really interested in this idea and excited to feel like I have a purpose other than getting people to buy things.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[Boomerangx]

I've had this happen, and you'll probably find that most other grad students have as well. Most recently, a seminar paper I tried to develop got nixed by the prof, who had some sort of opaque rationale for why it wasn't workable and sent me in another direction entirely. About a year later, my advisor was a reviewer on the empirical paper which someone else wrote on the identical topic. 😡

The good news is that if you have a "mind for research" (ugh, that sounds cheesy, like Melanie Griffith in Working Girl: "I've got a mind for business and a bod for sin.") you'll have multiple ideas, multiple projects. But I admire your sense of motivation and urgency. It's possible that you could pursue your idea now, via a masters program, no?

Oh, I'm so sorry about your unfortunate experience with your advisor. My brother has his PhD in geophysics and works at a national laboratory. Even he has similar stories to tell about his ideas being given to other researchers which later become the basis for papers that get published. Luckily, he still publishes enough on his own.

I think I have a mind for generating ideas, and most likely possess at least the patience for research, which seems strange to say considering how impatient I am about getting into a school to research my idea. Again, I just don't want to lose it and have to watch someone else work on something I'm so passionate about.

I'm going to try to look into master's programs. I can't seem to find an empirical research program that terminates at the master's level though. I'm not sure what else to pursue. Would an MSW have enough of a research component? Can I even specialize in anxiety disorders? I'm not certain. I might just call a professor at a university and ask what I should do.

 

[Boomerangx]

Ah, you wrote it and hit submit while I was still mulling over how best to phrase it.

But even if OP get's into a doctoral program, there's no guarantee that that exact idea will fly, or that there would be sufficient time to get to it right away (instead of working on mentor's project, etc.).* If the main driving force is the research, why not try to find a masters program where your advisor is on board and gives you the green light?

*This happened to someone I know. Promised that s/he could do "apples," moved across the country, then got stuck working on "bicycles." The most gregarious, easy going person I've ever met, and when asked about the grad school experience: "Well, I'm glad it's over, 'cause I wouldn't do it again..."

Ha! My brother says the same thing. However, he was in an odd position. His advisor died while he was finishing up his master's. Consequently, he had to change his focus for the PhD as there was no one left to advise him.

I do like the master's program idea. I'm just not certain what kind of master's program would allow me to explore the idea throughly. As I stated previously, I don't see a terminal master's in empirical psychology (is that what is is called?)

I will figure out a way. I still have GREs to worry about anyway.

 

[Boomerangx]

I've got a bit different perspective than what has been posted here, so I'll throw out my two cents. I had a similar experience to you. I was a non-trad, married with kids, and had no background in psych. On top of that, I had no research experience at all (zero!). However, I decided I wanted to go to grad school for clinical psych, and I had 1 decent research idea. Thank goodness I didn't know about this forum 7 years ago.

I applied and was accepted to a decent PhD program at a small state school (not a research school by any means). I was determined to make it work. Part of this, of course, means finding a faculty member that is willing to accept you as is. I lucked out in that department. Anyway, I knew I wanted to do research, so I pushed for it. I published quite a bit in grad school and even got some funding as a grad student.

I went on from that small grad program (that is not known for producing researchers), to one of the top research focused internships in the country. I'm typing this post from my office at an R1 (or perhaps the better designation is RU/VH) Clinical Science PhD program where I'm a new assistant professor. It may take some hard work (and some luck); but, don't ever let anyone tell you it's not possible.

I love your story!! I'm certainly not talking about being accepted to UCLA or UT-Austin. I'm interested in a small state school that does have a faculty member whose interests align with mine. I've been wondering if I could finish the tech portion of my idea, show it to him and then address the issue of studying it further at this school. I know I don't have a prayer at a Tier 1 institution. I'm realistic about it and I am also okay with it.

But congratulations to you!! Your story is wonderfully inspiring! Thank you so much for sharing it with me.

 

[Boomerangx]

I would look for clinical Master's that require an empirical thesis for graduation. You could also look into experimental programs, but it would be harder to do applied clinical research at such a program. I think it's going to be difficult to pursue your idea right away unless you find the right fit at a clinical Master's program because it's treatment outcomes research. It's hard enough to pull together and complete an outcomes study in the course of a Ph.D. program, so unless you can find an anxiety person at a Master's program who is set up for this and can do a small pilot study, it might be difficult.

I will see what I can find. Thanks for all the help and the healthy dose of reality. Hopefully something will work out.

 

[wigflip]

Oh, I'm so sorry about your unfortunate experience with your advisor. My brother has his PhD in geophysics and works at a national laboratory. Even he has similar stories to tell about his ideas being given to other researchers which later become the basis for papers that get published. Luckily, he still publishes enough on his own.

Just to clarify--it was pure luck that someone unaffiliated with my uni came up with the same thing. My advisor did nothing wrong; I just shouldn't have let another prof stymie me.

I'm going to try to look into master's programs. I can't seem to find an empirical research program that terminates at the master's level though. I'm not sure what else to pursue. Would an MSW have enough of a research component? Can I even specialize in anxiety disorders? I'm not certain. I might just call a professor at a university and ask what I should do.

I'd set aside a chunk of time aside and search for past threads on the masters forum--this question comes up a lot! Some of the discussion is about what the best licensable masters degree is (consensus answer: the one that leads to the most employable license in your region of the country), but it doesn't sound like that's what you're after. There are other threads that address the research piece. Try looking for terminal masters degrees (clinical or experimental) that require a thesis. Here is an example:

http://www.csun.edu/csbs/departments/psychology/index.html

From the departmental site:

"The Psychology Department at California State University, Northridge has long been considered to be outstanding. In fact, a recent report from the National Science Foundation confirmed that more graduates of our department completed Ph.D. programs than graduates from any other non-Ph.D. granting university in the country."

 

[Boomerangx]

Just to clarify--it was pure luck that someone unaffiliated with my uni came up with the same thing. My advisor did nothing wrong; I just shouldn't have let another prof stymie me.



I'd set aside a chunk of time aside and search for past threads on the masters forum--this question comes up a lot! Some of the discussion is about what the best licensable masters degree is (consensus answer: the one that leads to the most employable license in your region of the country), but it doesn't sound like that's what you're after. There are other threads that address the research piece. Try looking for terminal masters degrees (clinical or experimental) that require a thesis. Here is an example:

http://www.csun.edu/csbs/departments/psychology/index.html

From the departmental site:

"The Psychology Department at California State University, Northridge has long been considered to be outstanding. In fact, a recent report from the National Science Foundation confirmed that more graduates of our department completed Ph.D. programs than graduates from any other non-Ph.D. granting university in the country."

Wonderful! Thank you! And I completely forgot about the masters degree forum. I will do some research there now!