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no code

Discussion in 'Emergency Medicine' started by uclacrewdude, Mar 25, 2004.

  1. uclacrewdude

    uclacrewdude the uclacrewdude abides
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    do any of you know anyone with "no code" tattooed across their chest?
     
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  3. southerndoc

    southerndoc life is good
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    Yes, several news stories over the past few years have reported patients getting "DNR" tattooed on their chest.
     
  4. beanbean

    beanbean 1K Member
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    No, but I once had a patient with a tatoo of the devil on his forehead.
     
  5. ERMudPhud

    ERMudPhud Back for a visit
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    I once saw a patient with a checklist of code choices tattoed on him. I can't remember which things he wanted and which he did not. My recollection was that the list included CPR, drugs, defibrillation, and intubation and he chose only 2 out of 4. The list was on his arm.
     
  6. tkim

    tkim 10 cc's cordrazine
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  7. Homunculus

    Homunculus SDN Caveman Administrator
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    i assisted on an autopsy once on a guy with "Flamethrower" tattooed over his suprapubic area.

    i think maybe he had some longstanding STD's or something, lol.
     
  8. Cowboy DO

    Cowboy DO Senior Member
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    Stupid question, but from a legal standpoint would you still need to see actual documentation?
     
  9. kungfufishing

    kungfufishing Senior Member
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    I heard you were a 'flamethrower' homonculus...

    I would expect that "tattoo documentation" might not hold up so well in court.
     
  10. Febrifuge

    Febrifuge Grizzled Old Newcomer
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    In my EMT class, we were told that even if the patient's spouse, the mailman, and the parish priest all insist there is a DNR, for the care-giver to be legally okay in NOT providing treatment, the document has to be present. One guy had a little sign by his back door saying 'DNR,' and it turned out not to be needed. But we told him he should amend the sign to say 'DNR... (is in the top desk drawer in a blue envelope).'
     
  11. DrQuinn

    DrQuinn My name is Neo
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    "back door?" Man you EMS guys are thorough.

    Q, DO
     
  12. ERMudPhud

    ERMudPhud Back for a visit
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    My personal feeling is that if someone has gone to the trouble of tattooing it then their intentions are pretty clear. I realize that laws and practices vary from state to state and that the standard is different for prehospital and in hospital providers. I generally accept the patient's statement, a wrist band or necklace, or statements from next of kin and I have been told by medicolegal people that this is OK. Obviously, if it was a 25year old with no medical problems I would question it but in somebody who clearly is approaching the end of their life it seems a stretch to force a full rescusitation on them just because somebody forgot to go to the file cabinet before coming to the ER. On the other hand I have had people with signed DNR's suddenly change their mind when they get sick and if they clearly express that they have changed their mind I feel I need to respect that.

    If you are still in med school or residency it is something to ask the medicolegal people at your institution to give you a talk about. You might be surprised that the law isn't as rigid in requiring a specific signed form as you think it is.
     
  13. DrQuinn

    DrQuinn My name is Neo
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    Agreed. A lot of times we'll do a "soft code" if we're pretty sure there's a DNR but we may have a faxed copy, or the nurse knows the family, blah blah. That's more for up on the floors, IMHO, though.

    Q, DO
     
  14. EMT036

    EMT036 MS-III/AEMT/Rescue Diver
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    One of the more elderly medics that instructed my aemt-i class had "DNR" tatooed on his chest...
     
  15. Homunculus

    Homunculus SDN Caveman Administrator
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    that's odd, 'cause I heard you were a "flamecatcher" kungfu...

    Quinn brought up "soft codes". Definitely been involved with a few of those. "quick, turn off the EKG before it catches any rhythms!!" lol
     
  16. Kalel

    Kalel Membership Revoked
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    Is having DNR written on your chest even valid in any state? Here in my state, unless you have DNR forms signed by a physician, witness, and patient/reprentative; family members can scream bloody murder but the EMS personel and physicians are obliged under law to run a full code. In the past, we've even told familes not to call EMS until they are sure that the patient is dead just to avoid any possible confusion.
     
  17. southerndoc

    southerndoc life is good
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    A good lawyer could probably create a big stink about a DNR tattoo if medics elect not to do CPR. I don't think the lawyer could win, but I think it would cause a lot of grief and wasted time.

    Should the DNR tattoo also have a tatoo of the person's signature? :laugh:
     
  18. SuperflyMD

    SuperflyMD Member
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    We just finished a jurisprudence class and delt with this issue. In Texas, if you know the desires of the patient, you have to follow that. We still have formal DNRs and advanced directives with complex forms that must be followed; but a doctor who, in good faith, doesn't code a patient (because he has reason to believe that's what the patient wants) has protection under the law. The DNR tattoo would seem to qualify as good evidence as to patient intent.
     

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