No ER core before match?

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Abruptio

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Due to the complete random nature of my school's rotation placement, I've ended up with my ER rotation in february (month before match). Granted, i'll have already done probably 3 or 4 electives by the november before match, but will not having a "grade" for ER hurt me in PD eyes? Thanks for the input...
 
i'd go meet with your dean or something if i were you... that ain't right!
 
See if you can change it. if not you will need 2 other EM electives prior to that so you can match!
 
Abruptio said:
Due to the complete random nature of my school's rotation placement, I've ended up with my ER rotation in february (month before match). Granted, i'll have already done probably 3 or 4 electives by the november before match, but will not having a "grade" for ER hurt me in PD eyes? Thanks for the input...


Its definitely worth trying to change it but don't sweat it if you can't. You'll have earned all your letters and SLORs from your electives and thats way more important than a grade. My school for instance doesn't even give grades for core clerkships and no one has asked me anything about it. I think the important things are the letters you get from any EM rotation. Some schools don't have a required EM rotation for core at all, so don't worry about it.
 
EctopicFetus said:
See if you can change it. if not you will need 2 other EM electives prior to that so you can match!

What are you talking about...is there some kind of requirement to have 2 EM rotations to match? I think that is ideal but I don't agree it is some kiss of death not to have them. I JUST finished my 2nd EM rotation this month and no info on it will be in the PD's hands at the programs I already interviewed at. I know it sounds strange, but I don't think having a ton of EM rotations your senior year means all that much to all applicants. I think non-trad medics for instance know they want to do EM, and have sometimes years more EM experience already than one rotation can give them. So as long as you can come up with a way to get the SLORs and the letters without a bunch of EM rotations, then I don't see it as a negative. I had some 33+ interview invites with merely a community EM elective (pass/fail) completed. They all knew I had another EM rotation in the Spring but only one PD even cared to know where it would be. I wouldn't even be replying to this thread but I just found your comment about having to have them to match to be questionable. Did I interpret it wrong?
 
I must say, I disagree Corpsman. You definitely want to change your schedule! You need your EM grade from your home program not to mention these are the folks who should be writing your LORs. I think it would come up in interviews if this is missing. The only exception I can think of is if your school does not have a program. Then, it might not matter.
 
I have sept and october open but was hoping to save them for away rotations...more important to get the grade then do an away??? Also, what would be the latest month that would be beneficial to change to? December?
 
corpsmanUP said:
What are you talking about...is there some kind of requirement to have 2 EM rotations to match? I think that is ideal but I don't agree it is some kiss of death not to have them. I JUST finished my 2nd EM rotation this month and no info on it will be in the PD's hands at the programs I already interviewed at. I know it sounds strange, but I don't think having a ton of EM rotations your senior year means all that much to all applicants. I think non-trad medics for instance know they want to do EM, and have sometimes years more EM experience already than one rotation can give them. So as long as you can come up with a way to get the SLORs and the letters without a bunch of EM rotations, then I don't see it as a negative. I had some 33+ interview invites with merely a community EM elective (pass/fail) completed. They all knew I had another EM rotation in the Spring but only one PD even cared to know where it would be. I wouldn't even be replying to this thread but I just found your comment about having to have them to match to be questionable. Did I interpret it wrong?
I dont think it is the kiss of death but having letters from only one place might not show a commitment to EM. I think though it becomes quite helpful especially if you dont know what type of place you want to end up at. EVERY county program I interviewed at mentioned my County rotation and every non-"County" type rotation mentioned the other one. I agree you dont need tons but 2 is ideal IMO. I guess more accurately I should say it would be BETTER to do 2 unless you have insane boards (like corpsman). I have a friend who only did one (because they decided late on EM) with avg EM board scores (220) and they only got one rotation in and didnt fare great getting interviews. They did get enough where I am sure they will match but not so well as others that had LORs from multiple places.
 
The latest to get your LORs in is Mid Nov or so. So you kind of need to be done by October and put the rush on your writers. Hope this helps!
 
That sounds reasonable Ectopic. I do agree that 2 is ideal. The main point of my thesis though was to keep the hopes high of the applicant who does not have the ability to schedule their EM rotations the way they would like. Benzo, lots of people don't have a home program. Think about people in the Dakotas, half the med schools in Texas, Montana, Oklahoma, Kansas, non-Vanderbilt-Tennessee territory, and many other med schools who simply don't have en EM rotation. There are also many med schools who don't have a required EM rotation. Worse than that, there are ones like mine who require it but at least half the class will not do the rotation until after Christmas in the Spring. I really think the term "commitment" is overrated at this juncture in a med student's career. We punish applicants who come late to the field in senior year because they are not "commited" but then when we run them off we tell them the next year that they aren't desired because they already have a year of post graduate training. So they are left to apply to the programs who don't care about this issue or to the 2-4 programs. Its a bad situation. It really is common I believe to do an EM rotation and then realize you have found your home when previously you wanted to do something else. I can tell you that as a hopeful PD in the year 2015 or later, if things are still as they are now, I'll make a concerted effort to NOT care if someone has 2 EM rotations before match, or even one if they can explain it away. The bottom line is that a lot of applicants know they want to do EM but just can't get their schedules to work to fit in 2 EM rotations. Some have a tough time with even 1. Show me some good board scores, and bring to the table a fundamental understanding of EM based on other scholarly activities, and to me that person is as competitive as the applicant who half the time stood around for a month at some academic powerhouse trying to get a letter. I bet a good 25% of applicants bring extra life experiences in EM to the table, and why should these people need 2 rotations? I chose to do ICU's and a sub-I medicine because I knew I could do more as a student. And these rotations were way more useful than being allowed to see some fast track or low acuity patients in the ED at a rate of 4 per shift!

And if you are a DO, your school likely does not encourage or assist your interest in EM. It can be an uphill battle trying to schedule even 1 EM elective, and there might not even be a core. Plus, as I said before, even though we have a core, we have pass/fail grading as MANY schools now do in 3rd and 4th year. So having a "pass" for a core EM does nothing to help the PD decided if you are worth something. Its the letters that matter, so if you can get them, I think thats what matters. I got letters from 2 docs I had worked with as a PA in the past.

So don't slit your wrist if you aren't able to come up with 2 EM rotations before match. Just prove yourself in other ways.
 
i can't believe a school couldn't work it out for a student interested in a field to do a month at their institution (if said institution has a home program of course) in the first few months of 4th year -- it's in their own best interest to match students in their field!!! this is for the school AND the school's dept... makes no sense.

at my school we were allowed to declare 1 rotation to be guaranteed in the first i believe 4 months of 4th year, for career decision making reasons.
 
If your school does not have an accredited EM residency program, you will need to do an away rotation at one. CORD (council of residency directors) has a standardized evaluation form (Standardized letter of recommendation - SLOR) which is universally accepted (and nearly universally required) by most EM programs. The CORD SLOR is the most effective letter of recommendation you can get - especially if you only do one EM rotation. That being said, be sure to re-schedule your EM rotation to have an evaluation form completed with your residency application materials - August or September would be the perfect time, but no later. EM is a highly competitive field, and you will be hurting your application by applying for residency without a single rotation in the specialty.

Perhaps BKN can shed some light on this...
 
ninerniner... and others.

I start reviewing and offering interviews as soon as the post office opens. Interviews begin after Nov 1 so we have the dean's letter and at that time the application should be complete except for scores that may not come until later. You don't want letters to arrive after your interview, because, clearly the interviewers won't take them into account. I would see letters arriving later, but I can't change the interview scores on that basis. Thus if you are going to do a EM rotation in Nov or December (not recommended), schedule your interviews for Jan and Feb.

To get an interview at my program you need a couple of letters, transcript and MLE1 or COLEX1. I'm don't require SLORS at that point, but they help. If there isn't at least one and prerferably two by interview time, it's going to be noted.

I would not care whether the home institution had an eval or not. What I want is SLORs from one academic EM program. Two would be even nicer. More than that I don't think would be important.

Ideal approach: July or August rotation in you home ED where you are known and loved and they'll buff you up. Go on the road in August or Sept and wow them. Then get SLORS from both rotations. The most senior faculty who had a chance to work with you at least two shifts are likely to be the most influential. Ask them specifically "Can you write a strong recommendation for me?" If they don't answer "Yes!", seek someone else. 😉
 
Here is my situation specifically...i'm doing an elective ER rotation as my first rotation as a third year in july. Obviously, i'm going to be a little green to expect any sort of glowing letter from this rotation. I then had hoped to do aways in sept. and october of my fourth year in hopes of scoring letters. I could most likely change my core ER to september but would take away hopes of a letter from one of my audtions. Thoughts?
 
Do two week EM rotations count for anything? We are able to schedule a few 2 week rotation electives during our 3rd year, and I was thinking of doing one EM and one trauma surgery. Probably not possible to get a letter from that, but will this count as an "elective"?

Q
 
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