No home otolaryngology program - help!

[aspinn]

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Hello. I am a third year at a smaller school that rotates at a hospital without an ENT department. We have only a private group that takes call at the hospital. None of the physicians in this practice have any interest in research. I have been spending free and post-call afternoons shadowing in their office.

My questions:
1. Are two away rotations sufficient? How can I prepare to impress them with the limited experience at my home institution? Are there books or websites that I can learn from?
2. Research - how do I find it? I have a few case reports that I wrote for the surgery department but that's really all. I have approached each physician in the private practice in town but none of them are interested in sponsoring any research and none had any ideas about what I could do instead. Anyone?

Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[StapedialMyoclonus]

for your first away rotation, goto a program that you have absolutely no chance at matching in. use that experience to prepare for your 2nd away. remember to go all out. take extra call. come in on weekends. read every night. good luck!

 

[neutropeniaboy]

My questions:
1. Are two away rotations sufficient? How can I prepare to impress them with the limited experience at my home institution? Are there books or websites that I can learn from?
2. Research - how do I find it?

Historically it is fairly difficult for students at programs without ENT departments to match (it's difficult enough for students with ENT programs...). You have no mentors. You generally don't have research. No one promotes ENT. You know the problems.

Contrary to the other poster, I would suggest doing 3 away rotations at places that are not top programs. Hang out on this forum and Otomatch to figure out what the more "blue collar" programs are that might emphasize work ethic a little more than research. Spend the last months of your 3rd year reading ENT Secrets and perhaps Pasha. By the time you hit your first rotation, the knowledge factor won't be a shock and you can rev up your work ethic -- first in, last out; q4 call; reading about all cases; knowing all the attendings; being helpful but not annoying. Approach an attending within the first week to see if they have any need for a student to do some aspect of their research. If you see something interesting, ask if it would be something worth writing up.

There's a common misconception out there that rotating at a really esteemed program will get you great letters. More often than not, the letters are really impersonal and demonstrate that the program director or chair really didn't know you that well. Why? Often times you don't work with them frequently and commonly they're writing letters for dozens of people like you who all think the same thing about rotating at a top 10 program.

Good luck.

 

[qmcat]

Historically it is fairly difficult for students at programs without ENT departments to match (it's difficult enough for students with ENT programs...). You have no mentors. You generally don't have research. No one promotes ENT. You know the problems.

Contrary to the other poster, I would suggest doing 3 away rotations at places that are not top programs...

Hi there, I'm in a similar situation being at a school without an ENT department. Would you still recommend doing 3 away rotations, in my case, if I had done summer research between M1-M2, and my PI offered to be my long-distance mentor? I've also worked with a community ENT doc, who used to be in academics, and he offered to help with anything I needed. Of course, I understand that matching without a home program will be harder, but I always had the impression that you shouldn't do too many aways if your board scores and everything else was in shape.

Thanks!

 

[StapedialMyoclonus]

Hi there, I'm in a similar situation being at a school without an ENT department. Would you still recommend doing 3 away rotations, in my case, if I had done summer research between M1-M2, and my PI offered to be my long-distance mentor? I've also worked with a community ENT doc, who used to be in academics, and he offered to help with anything I needed. Of course, I understand that matching without a home program will be harder, but I always had the impression that you shouldn't do too many aways if your board scores and everything else was in shape.

Thanks!

The advantages of going to a bigger place early include:
1. more opportunity to get involved in research
2. higher volume, which'll expose you to a greater variety of stuff
3. they'll likely be busier and whip you into shape for your subsequent aways

like other poster said, these top places are less likely to give you interviews and the LORs will probably be less personalized, but i think maintain it's important to use your first rotation to gain as much experience as possible and use your 2nd and 3rd aways to try to land interviews at places that are more realistic for your resume.

 

[neutropeniaboy]

Hi there, I'm in a similar situation being at a school without an ENT department. Would you still recommend doing 3 away rotations, in my case, if I had done summer research between M1-M2, and my PI offered to be my long-distance mentor? I've also worked with a community ENT doc, who used to be in academics, and he offered to help with anything I needed. Of course, I understand that matching without a home program will be harder, but I always had the impression that you shouldn't do too many aways if your board scores and everything else was in shape.

Thanks!

If you really want something, you have to go the distance. If you match into an ENT program and look back at doing 3 rotations, more than likely you will say "I don't know if it helped, but I'm glad I did it." If you don't match, you may end up asking yourself if you did everything you could have done.

 

[Maybeknot]

Good advice all around. Just wanted to add that you might also consider a month or two away research rotation. If you work with an ENT (you should), you will have far more face-to-face time than you would if you were doing a clinical rotation. Your research mentor would really know you, and if you're liked, you will have someone who is able to make calls on your behalf come interview or rank list time.

Finding a research rotation is a bit more difficult than a clinical one.... it requires much more initiative, but you can ask around during your clinical rotations to see if there are any attendings that have research projects that you can contribute to. Or, you can just go on ENT program websites and see if there's anything available (might require a bit of cold-emailing attendings or research directors).

 

[Repdsesstuinas]

Hey, similar position here. I am at a school without an ENT residency program but does have a division of otolaryngology in the department of surgery. The chair of the division has been like a mentor and is very helpful but it still hurts not having the name recognition that comes with a school with its own residency program.

I am doing only one away rotation in August because my wife is pregnant and due on Aug 31 and a second away is Sept is simply not practical. I am doing ENT month long elective at my home institution in Sept.

Honestly, it is scary not being able to do the number of aways that other ENT applicants in my position are doing. I did well on step I (261) and got junior AOA with one non-ENT publication in undergrad and so far one pseudo-ENT related poster presentation at ACP conference on epistaxis. Hoping to pick up more research. Good luck to everyone else in similar position!

 

[Schnozberries]

Long time reader, first post here. I just wanted to add my 2 cents and some inspiration.

I am a current 4th year from a mediocre medical school with no program. A fellow classmate and I both matched at our # 1 choices (both of which are very well known programs, 1 of which is considered by most to be very prestigious). Additionally, two of my friends from other schools with no programs matched at very competitive programs.

I can only speak for my classmate and myself, but our secret recipe of 7 herbs and spices was that we: applied very broadly (60+ and 90+ programs), did at least 3 away rotations (one of us did 4), worked very hard, and got involved with what little research was available to us at our school as well as with residents at away rotations. These efforts translated to 1 national poster presentation each (COSM and AAOHNS) and 1 published case report apiece, with very respectable LORs. With regard to finding research, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Ask enough people and you're bound to find someone who will help you out.

There is no secret. Just work as hard as you can without being annoying. There is lots of good advice regarding aways on this forum and otomatch, so I won't belabor that point.

This process certainly requires more upfront effort than candidates with home programs and faculty to make calls, have active research, etc, but I never felt "undermatched" once I got to the interview. Because of this initial effort, by the time interviews roll around, many candidates in our (your) situation feel very confident in their comittment to this specialty. This shows when attendings ask you, "Why ENT?" or "Ahh I see you come from a place with no program, are you sure you want to do ENT?" Hopefully your determination as well as the insight gained from the initial uphill battle and away rotations shines through to reveal a genuine passion for this field.

To sum it up. I mainly just wanted to let those of you inquiring on this thread know that there are some of us out there with no programs who not only match, but match at preferred programs. With enough hard work you can make this career a reality. Just do the best you can and cut the BS.

I sincerely wish everyone the best of luck.

 

[OtoHNS]

Great first post! You may want to consider copying it to one of the stickied ENT applicant FAQ threads as this is great answer to a common question/concern on the forum.

Long time reader, first post here. I just wanted to add my 2 cents and some inspiration.

I am a current 4th year from a mediocre medical school with no program. A fellow classmate and I both matched at our # 1 choices (both of which are very well known programs, 1 of which is considered by most to be very prestigious). Additionally, two of my friends from other schools with no programs matched at very competitive programs.

I can only speak for my classmate and myself, but our secret recipe of 7 herbs and spices was that we: applied very broadly (60+ and 90+ programs), did at least 3 away rotations (one of us did 4), worked very hard, and got involved with what little research was available to us at our school as well as with residents at away rotations. These efforts translated to 1 national poster presentation each (COSM and AAOHNS) and 1 published case report apiece, with very respectable LORs. With regard to finding research, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Ask enough people and you're bound to find someone who will help you out.

There is no secret. Just work as hard as you can without being annoying. There is lots of good advice regarding aways on this forum and otomatch, so I won't belabor that point.

This process certainly requires more upfront effort than candidates with home programs and faculty to make calls, have active research, etc, but I never felt "undermatched" once I got to the interview. Because of this initial effort, by the time interviews roll around, many candidates in our (your) situation feel very confident in their comittment to this specialty. This shows when attendings ask you, "Why ENT?" or "Ahh I see you come from a place with no program, are you sure you want to do ENT?" Hopefully your determination as well as the insight gained from the initial uphill battle and away rotations shines through to reveal a genuine passion for this field.

To sum it up. I mainly just wanted to let those of you inquiring on this thread that there are some of us out there with no programs who not only match, but match at preferred programs. With enough hard work you can make this career a reality. Just do the best you can and cut the BS.

I sincerely wish everyone the best of luck.