No IIs yet - possible reapp for 3rd cycle advice

[supersaiyanvegeta]

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[mvsrocks]

Have you thought about applying DO? Also, do you have recent volunteer experiences, or are they all from undergrad?

 

[DrOngoGablogian]

I am sorry you are in this situation. Out of your 1-4, #4 stands out as a serious blow to your chances. I don't want to beat you up cause you already recognize this as an issue, but seriously, if you apply next cycle there is no room for excuses. Get them in early. I know you also said you took a lot of advice you received into account when deciding on your list, but in my opinion your final list was not one that would give you good odds. Out of the schools you applied to, you are a marginal candidate for at least 20 of them by a quick count. Not a bad candidate, just not a candidate with very good odds. That opinion is based not only on stats but all the info you presented taken into account together. You need to load your list up with more lower end schools and some DO schools to balance it out. Finally, I wonder what the tone of your app is. How are you selling yourself? Your app falls into the cookie-cutter pile and GW gets like 11,000 apps--so how are you making yourself stand out? Bottom line: you did everything you need to do, all the pieces are there, but your shortcomings when it comes to strategy are holding you back. PM me if you want to talk strategy.

Don't give up hope yet though. It is only December.

 

[Osteosaur]

I had similar stats to you and applied four times. I was 3.6, 515, research job with pubs, clinical volunteering. It can be very painful. I'll break down my thoughts as a multi-time reapplicant. Went from getting 1-3 IIs per cycle to getting 7 IIs and an 2 As.

1) I applied with 7 year old coursework. I don't think this was an issue.
2) Old clinical experience and lack of recent shadowing might be an issue here. If you don't keep it up it shows a lack of interest. I'd suggest helping out in an ED but its not a great environment for that right now. I think you need something that shows you want to be a doctor now and not 4 years ago.
3) I applied with old undergrad LORs to meet requirements but asked writers to update the dates, and more recent LORs from a PI to show the 'current' me was nice. Just stick to their requirements. Do you have reason to doubt the undergrad letter writers will sink you?
4) Applying late was a big mistake. The 515 is great but your GPA is weak.

My thoughts are these:
1) Your GPA sucks and you need to go DO. Most MD programs want 3.7 or higher. You are a 3.6 so you need cool activities to pull yourself out. You have the MCAT and research but that is not cutting it in your competitive state. Doing an SMP is risky, and bringing a 3.6 to a 3.7 via a DYI post-bacc won't happen in this lifetime. You're stuck with that 3.6. Your best option is to apply to osteopathic programs and hope lower-tier MD programs look upon you kindly (they might if you make changes). Fortunately at DO programs you won't be a worn-out three time applicant there but a fresh above-average applicant, make sure your DO application is GOLDEN.

2) New volunteering and shadowing. Has your application changed much in those two attempts? I am guessing you kept reapplying, hoping you were a hair away, and so stressed you never added any new activities. This does not look good. Consider some recent volunteering and/or shadowing. Its just that they are taking the you now and not the you in undergrad. Just do something. It doesn't have to be a lot, just a 2-4 hour a week thing to show you're helping people.

3) Apply early and re-write everything. You are a beggar here and cannot afford any slip-ups. It needs to be perfect and look like you're a brand-new person who reinvented themselves, even if you just added one activity. How much did your application change between seasons? Did you tweak? Totally re-write?

Feel free to PM me if you need advice, support, whatever.

 

[ndcpjf]

I would actually disagree that your "GPA sucks". I think that's too extreme. Is it tremendous? No. Is it terrible? Not at all. With your MCAT score, it looks like you have around a 70% chance for an acceptance.

That said I really don't have much expertise to help you. Do you have any leadership? Is there a way you can transfer into a leadership role within your current volunteer or research positions? I'm just trying to think of ways that you can demonstrate the qualities schools are looking for outside of the traditional gpa/mcat metrics.

 

[supersaiyanvegeta]

Thank you for your feedback everyone! To answer your questions: Yes, I have recent non-clinical volunteering over the past year and a half and currently volunteering with the underserved (non-clinical). I do have what I think would be considered leadership roles in my clinical research position over the past 3 years, in my non-clinical volunteering with the underserved which I started recently (50-60 hours), and also from undergrad (student org). Both during last cycle and the current cycle (although my options are more limited right now), I have added activities - 2 for the last cycle and 1 for the current cycle thus far. I also shadowed for about 20 hours last year while the cycle was going on. I haven't really considered DO yet because I thought my metrics, although not great, were competitive for mid or low tier MDs. However, I see @Osteosaur 's point, I am probably at the bottom of the pile at even low tier MD schools especially in the CA ORM bracket, even with "decent" metrics.

If I do re-apply for the 2021-2022 cycle, I would try to get some new clinical experience between now and then, continue non-clinical volunteering with the underserved, also perhaps take 1 or 2 upper div science courses to show that I have recent coursework, and obviously apply day 1 for primaries, pre-write, and have all secondaries complete by mid/end of July at the latest. Would really appreciate some input from SDN adcoms/advisors @Goro @Mr.Smile12 @gonnif @Faha @LizzyM especially about the recent coursework part - if that would be beneficial and is holding back my app because I am getting mixed feedback. Thank you!

 

[Osteosaur]

Just remember when @Goro posts his guide to reinvention he is on the second at a DO school which historically takes reinventors. Not to be harsh but I'm hearing "well some upper level science classes will redeem me into MD material".

You'll have to look into whether or not low tire MD programs will really care about a recent A or two.

If this was your first go, sure, try for that MD. The fact is you've tried twice and failed. I don't know what your life plan is, but you might be losing a lot of years chasing the prestige of the MD. Are you aiming for a non-DO friendly speciality? Otherwise DO tends to be a very safe bet for MD applicants who are just a little below average.

 

[Goro]

Thank you for your feedback everyone! To answer your questions: Yes, I have recent non-clinical volunteering over the past year and a half and currently volunteering with the underserved (non-clinical). I do have what I think would be considered leadership roles in my clinical research position over the past 3 years, in my non-clinical volunteering with the underserved which I started recently (50-60 hours), and also from undergrad (student org). Both during last cycle and the current cycle (although my options are more limited right now), I have added activities - 2 for the last cycle and 1 for the current cycle thus far. I also shadowed for about 20 hours last year while the cycle was going on. I haven't really considered DO yet because I thought my metrics, although not great, were competitive for mid or low tier MDs. However, I see @Osteosaur 's point, I am probably at the bottom of the pile at even low tier MD schools especially in the CA ORM bracket, even with "decent" metrics.

If I do re-apply for the 2021-2022 cycle, I would try to get some new clinical experience between now and then, continue non-clinical volunteering with the underserved, also perhaps take 1 or 2 upper div science courses to show that I have recent coursework, and obviously apply day 1 for primaries, pre-write, and have all secondaries complete by mid/end of July at the latest. Would really appreciate some input from SDN adcoms/advisors @Goro @Mr.Smile12 @gonnif @Faha @LizzyM especially about the recent coursework part - if that would be beneficial and is holding back my app because I am getting mixed feedback. Thank you!

Your GPAs do not suck, but your app timing is what hurt. The sGPA will hurt for UCSF and Keck class schools. I agree that you should have DO schools on your list.

U AZ, Keck, OH U and U Cincy were donations.

Target MD schools whose median stats are closest to yours.

Apply early next cycle, and rewrite all essays, having multiple eyeballs vet them

 

[supersaiyanvegeta]

@Goro Thank you for your input! Do you think it would be beneficial for me to take 1-2 upper div science courses to show that I have recent coursework/can handle the academic rigor of med school since I will be 5 years out of undergrad by next year or is this not really an issue?

Of course this will not really increase my GPAs at all or make my app more "MD material", that is not my intention @Osteosaur - this would be to show recent coursework to both MD and DO schools if I re-apply. I have read some threads on here with adcoms recommending recent coursework for some applicants and I want to know if that applies in my case because I have thus far gotten mixed feedback about it from my pre-med advisors so I am really confused and looking for guidance on whether that is an issue I should address.

 

[Goro]

@Goro Thank you for your input! Do you think it would be beneficial for me to take 1-2 upper div science courses to show that I have recent coursework/can handle the academic rigor of med school since I will be 5 years out of undergrad by next year or is this not really an issue?

Of course this will not really increase my GPAs at all or make my app more "MD material", that is not my intention @Osteosaur - this would be to show recent coursework to both MD and DO schools if I re-apply. I have read some threads on here with adcoms recommending recent coursework for some applicants and I want to know if that applies in my case because I have thus far gotten mixed feedback about it from my pre-med advisors so I am really confused and looking for guidance on whether that is an issue I should address.

How many courses would it take to get your sGPA to a 3.6?

If 2-3, go for it

 

[supersaiyanvegeta]

@Osteosaur trying to PM you but SDN won't let me - is your PM disabled??

 

[Osteosaur]

@Osteosaur trying to PM you but SDN won't let me - is your PM disabled??

Must be some new setting. Should be able to receive them now!