no love?

[smellycat]

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Hi ladies and gents,
I've been really considering path and lately I've been telling a few people this and the reactions that i have been getting are unsettling.
Why do pathologist get no love? Do the current pathologists feel they are respected? ( a question i ask)

I've told a few people and these are the responses i've gotten:
-" Pathologist? I thought you wanted to be a real doctor..."
-"I'm disappointed, i thought you would be helping people...you are a people person..."

I hope you don't think that i'm being overly insecure, but it is disheartening. Does anyone else hear this garbage too? I know these people don't have a clue of what medicine is all about, but it is hard to hear this from people i know. They are just being honest to me...and i am wondering what you guys have been hearing....
thanks.

 

[valtrex]

I just started an ortho rotation today & the head orthopod asked me what I'm going into. After my response of pathology, there's a room of 15 orthopods laughing at me for the next 30seconds.

However after just finishing up my 1st day, which lasted 15 hours, and has every joint in my body aching.......I'm feeling more secure in my decision than ever.

 

[Goober]

Who cares what other people think. I got similar responses when I told people I was going into rads. Now that I am through the whole process, I can't tell you how glad I am not in primary care or surgery.

 

[Brian Pavlovitz]

Smellycat ("...what are they feeding you...?) 😉

I think most of us have had the same types of reactions when we say that we're interested in Pathology. However, the joke is on them!! For instance:

1. NO INTERNSHIP YEAR!!!!

2. Decent pay

3. You actually can have a life during residency AND when you're practicing!

4. You'll sleep in your own bed while others are being paged in the Resident's Lounge at 3am (I'm not a Resident, but I hear this is a problem).

5. Pathologists are just plain cool 😎

6. Pathologists are smart, usually without having to let the whole world know.

7. You can have your morning coffee while working (if signing out cases-- Probably not while grossing or doing autopsy...)

There are MANY more reasons why Pathology is so cool; I'm sure others with more experience can chime in. Don't worry about what the others think. When they see that you're enjoying your work, the joke will be on them.

Glad you're interested in Pathology--it's a wonderful field!

 

[yaah]

Don't pay attention to the ignorami of the world. I laugh at the people seriously thinking about fields like ortho. Their response is often something like, "oh year well I'll be making tons of $$$ etc etc superficial benefits etc etc."

They are just laughing because they don't know what path is. Like many people (and orthopedic people tend to have some of the most severe tunnel vision in medicine - seeing only their own field) they probably think it is all dead people.

Smellycat pathologists are real doctors. They give other doctors the information and the diagnoses they need in order to treat the patients. I think one is performing as equal a service, at least, to the patient population at large by making sure they have the correct diagnosis. Just because they shake the patient's hand and write the order for the tests means they are somehow doing more?

Lots of us are people persons as well. I find path to be intellectually challenging and stimulating, much more so than my clinical medicine experiences. And guess what? I get to interact with people a lot, and interpersonal skills are a big plus! Besides, I've met tons of clinical doctors who, if interpersonal skills were a prerequisite for the job, would have been booted from their positions a long time ago.

Pathologists enjoy their work, generally, you don't often hear complaints about the struggles and limitations of day to day work.

Don't worry about it - once they learn anything about the field they will realize what a big mistake they made in questioning you. Besides, who do they really want to be their pathologists, the ones they trust with their patients' diagnoses? The boring, unfriendly person with poor reasoning and judgment? Or the friendly, happy, and intelligent one?

 

[pathdawg]

I was a "real doctor" once (did Internal Medicine) and trust me, it ain't what its cracked up to be.

Believe me, the joke is on them.

With that said, the poster who recounted the story of having 15 orthopods laughing at you: that had to be pretty brutal.

Living well is the best revenge!

 

[quant]

Dear Smelly Cat

I used to work in an Intensive coronary care unit in a private setting.I worked there for almost 3 years and i guess (i think....) i know what im saying about.After 3 years of being adored by patients(at least they used to say that on my face,dont know what they said behind my back),by nurses who felt i should be a cardiologist for life, relatives who thought that they had someone to relate to with much more ease (and free advice) i should NOT have had any complaints.....but somehow deep down inside me, i always felt hollow for the kind of work i was doing.An ICCU they say is one of the most exciting places to be,always on the edge....always need to take quick decisions,saving people s lives and so on,the typical ideal of a common man s vision of being a doctor.... the only problem was my persona never was suited for such a job. I always wanted to sit back, think about deep problems and wonder why things are the way they are. I never found it appealing to wonder why the patient was constipated, or calculating the doses of the critical cardiac drugs which the nurses in the ICCU could calculate equally well just in case i happened to die in the midst of a cardiac crisis.

So after wondering for 3 years, which i know is a long time..... i finally decided to pursue a PhD and am presently in that stage. What were people s reactions to me doing a PhD?...............

1) WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYY? (my parents reaction...My dad is a PhD too)

2) Research?....on what the hell do you want to do research?

3) Research? I dont know doctors DID research...( I am an IMG from a country with rather high social and a societal pressures....)

4) Scientists often end up poor and miserable....(slightly enlightened people)

5) You are throwing away a glorious future....

The only person who encouraged me was my boss in the ICCU who was a worldly wise cardiologist who had seen enough of cardiology who had the guts to say...." what cardiologists do is routine,boring bullcrap....explore new horizons,learn new things,pander to YOUR inner feelings, do not play to the whims of people around you.....you will live your life,not them...."

That was nearly 3 years ago, today i can say with confidence that i do not regret for ONE moment what i did 3 years ago..i still probably have LONG way to go ..ultimately, in any field,YOU have to be comfortable with what you want to do. That kind of personal security and courage to do anything you want, unfortunately comes with either 1) Age 2) having extremely fortunate circumstances(lots of money etc etc) 3) sheer luck

You on the other hand have had the courage to think of alternate fields as the field you want to be. That others think less of you or discourage you should not come as a surprise since that kind of an attitude is the natural outcome of ignorance.

All i want to say is, think what kind of work would make you comfortable....would really cause you to enjoy it......no matter what pains you have to undergo, what kind of difficulties you have to face (yes even money!!!), at the end of the day would you really still love it?.....that in my humble opinion is the key to happiness. You might be a neurosurgeon and make a bag of money, but if you dont truly like it you feel miserable,no matter what money you make!!!....

No matter what i tell you....i KNOW you will still be confused because courage and conviction to believe in one s decisions come only with age....but the only thing i can do is say encourage you that you are NOT wrong....


Look up the fields, check out the people and im sure you ll be happy if you go into the field that YOU want to be in . You ll end up being miserable if you go into fields that you end up in because OTHERS think it is glamourous to be in. And yes, that includes ANYONE ......
hope this helps...

Regards
Quant

PS one of the most memorable things any person said to me(a prof in my med school) was if you are confused about something, ask a person who is highly successful in the thing you are confused about....but,dont ask him about his success...ask him about his PAIN which he underwent to be successful,the answer often would be enlightening....

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Dear Smelly Cat

I used to work in an Intensive coronary care unit in a private setting.I worked there for almost 3 years and i guess (i think....) i know what im saying about.After 3 years of being adored by patients(at least they used to say that on my face,dont know what they said behind my back),by nurses who felt i should be a cardiologist for life, relatives who thought that they had someone to relate to with much more ease (and free advice) i should NOT have had any complaints.....but somehow deep down inside me, i always felt hollow for the kind of work i was doing.An ICCU they say is one of the most exciting places to be,always on the edge....always need to take quick decisions,saving people s lives and so on,the typical ideal of a common man s vision of being a doctor.... the only problem was my persona never was suited for such a job. I always wanted to sit back, think about deep problems and wonder why things are the way they are. I never found it appealing to wonder why the patient was constipated, or calculating the doses of the critical cardiac drugs which the nurses in the ICCU could calculate equally well just in case i happened to die in the midst of a cardiac crisis.

So after wondering for 3 years, which i know is a long time..... i finally decided to pursue a PhD and am presently in that stage. What were people s reactions to me doing a PhD?...............

1) WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYY? (my parents reaction...My dad is a PhD too)

2) Research?....on what the hell do you want to do research?

3) Research? I dont know doctors DID research...( I am an IMG from a country with rather high social and a societal pressures....)

4) Scientists often end up poor and miserable....(slightly enlightened people)

5) You are throwing away a glorious future....

The only person who encouraged me was my boss in the ICCU who was a worldly wise cardiologist who had seen enough of cardiology who had the guts to say...." what cardiologists do is routine,boring bullcrap....explore new horizons,learn new things,pander to YOUR inner feelings, do not play to the whims of people around you.....you will live your life,not them...."

That was nearly 3 years ago, today i can say with confidence that i do not regret for ONE moment what i did 3 years ago..i still probably have LONG way to go ..ultimately, in any field,YOU have to be comfortable with what you want to do. That kind of personal security and courage to do anything you want, unfortunately comes with either 1) Age 2) having extremely fortunate circumstances(lots of money etc etc) 3) sheer luck

You on the other hand have had the courage to think of alternate fields as the field you want to be. That others think less of you or discourage you should not come as a surprise since that kind of an attitude is the natural outcome of ignorance.

All i want to say is, think what kind of work would make you comfortable....would really cause you to enjoy it......no matter what pains you have to undergo, what kind of difficulties you have to face (yes even money!!!), at the end of the day would you really still love it?.....that in my humble opinion is the key to happiness. You might be a neurosurgeon and make a bag of money, but if you dont truly like it you feel miserable,no matter what money you make!!!....

No matter what i tell you....i KNOW you will still be confused because courage and conviction to believe in one s decisions come only with age....but the only thing i can do is say encourage you that you are NOT wrong....


Look up the fields, check out the people and im sure you ll be happy if you go into the field that YOU want to be in . You ll end up being miserable if you go into fields that you end up in because OTHERS think it is glamourous to be in. And yes, that includes ANYONE ......
hope this helps...

Regards
Quant

PS one of the most memorable things any person said to me(a prof in my med school) was if you are confused about something, ask a person who is highly successful in the thing you are confused about....but,dont ask him about his success...ask him about his PAIN which he underwent to be successful,the answer often would be enlightening....

Quant, eloquently stated man!

Very similar issues when through my mind when I decided that I would want to devote myself to basic science research/academic pathology in the long run.

You mentioned that in medicine, you can be adored by your patients. Truly this is a gratifying feeling and it makes one all fuzzy and warm inside. Woop-dee-fricking-dah! Personally, I much more prefer having respect from peers within my field (for my contributions to the field) than shallow adoration from patients just because they were able to land a hot steaming pile of poo after being constipated for 5 days. Plus, I doubt patients can really appreciate the intricacies of the work that we really do. Their respect means little.

Finally, doing a job you enjoy is very important. I could've done clinical medicine, make money, wait until retirement, and then finally be happy. But I know I would not be happy at work, especially in a job where work comprises much of your day. I want to have a job that I can see myself doing until the day I die. Research is that for me.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Smellycat ("...what are they feeding you...?) 😉

I think most of us have had the same types of reactions when we say that we're interested in Pathology. However, the joke is on them!! For instance:

1. NO INTERNSHIP YEAR!!!!

2. Decent pay

3. You actually can have a life during residency AND when you're practicing!

4. You'll sleep in your own bed while others are being paged in the Resident's Lounge at 3am (I'm not a Resident, but I hear this is a problem).

5. Pathologists are just plain cool 😎

6. Pathologists are smart, usually without having to let the whole world know.

7. You can have your morning coffee while working (if signing out cases-- Probably not while grossing or doing autopsy...)

There are MANY more reasons why Pathology is so cool; I'm sure others with more experience can chime in. Don't worry about what the others think. When they see that you're enjoying your work, the joke will be on them.

Glad you're interested in Pathology--it's a wonderful field!

Amen Brutha! Reaffirmation!

Rock on Brian!

Crap! Another day of SubI starts in 4 hours. This needs to end soon...I mean seriously. 5 weeks, 2 days of clinical medicine left! This is way too long 🙁

 

[quant]

Thanks Andy
Just felt like writing stuff to get the load off my heart....A kind of catharsis if you may...I agree with your viewpoint that it is better to be respected by your own peers than the fleeting admiration of a patient which could very well turn into unimaginable loathing if things dont go their way. Agreed human nature is fickle, but i wouldnt want to end up being the butt of that fickleness.....
Regards
Quant

 

[b&ierstiefel]

word up Quant

i thank you for so eloquently stating my sentiments over the past year of my life. i couldn't have said it better and if i had made an attempt, it would have exuded much anger, resentment and could have offended some people.
before i settled into my desire to pursue pathology, i wondered everyday why i even entered medical school. on many days, i pondered quitting med school, doing a postdoc, and eventually getting a faculty position somewhere. luckily i ran into some people in my program who are going into pathology, discussed interests and career goals, and everything is history. now i find myself barely hanging on to my sanity as i finish my last few months of medical school.

what have i learned in the last 12 months?
-patient contact = overrated
-clinical medicine owns me; i suck at it and i have tremendous respect for people who stick with clinical medicine as it really is a truly challenging feat.
-graduate training is so much better than clinical medicine training (which is truly analogous to fraternity hazing). enjoy grad school while you can quant. grad school was the best 3 years of my life!!!!!

Cheers 🙂

 

[quant]

Andy
I can imagine the frustration and anger which you describe....i used to wonder what the hell was i doing here? I mean it is really a feeling which i can t even begin to express...There were times when i was wondering if I was living my own life.....people told me,"you are doing a noble service !"...but at what cost?
Anyway, i think it is done and over with, as i said earlier, wisdom comes with age or luck....for me it came with age and experience....life is too short man, there are so many things that are important....a lifetime is not enough to experience all the wonders of the life....and to think that i almost ended spending a lifetime wondering about old men unable to poop...shudder shudder...as some in the thread rightly said so...the joke is on them....

I really do admire the patience of people who can put up with this day in and day out....but then i guess someone needs to be in the trenches...

regards
Quant

 

[b&ierstiefel]

quant, i just replied to your PM.

you've got mail 🙂

sure one can say the joke is on them as you say. but people who go into clinical medicine enjoy it and it's great that there are lots of people who feel that way. we definitely need them working in the trenches. and we'll be in the trenches too as we navigate our way to piles of turd during autopsies

 

[Doctor B.]

As Cartman says: "Follow your dreams, you can reach your goals. I'm living proof."

When I told folks I was going into path, I got one of three responses: "Cool!", "Why the hell?" or "What's path?". I'm not going to regurgitate what's been said above but do what makes you happy and ignore the naysayers. Path is awesome.

BEEFCAKE!

 

[smellycat]

all the responses so far have been really helpful...and honestly made me feel much better...
Wish me luck, i'll be doing my month of path in about a week. I hope i LOVE IT!

 

[b&ierstiefel]

all the responses so far have been really helpful...and honestly made me feel much better...
Wish me luck, i'll be doing my month of path in about a week. I hope i LOVE IT!

I'm sure you'll do great. And if any other clinicians give you smack for wanting to go into pathology, just tell them, "Bring it!"

 

[Converse]

Why do pathologist get no love? Do the current pathologists feel they are respected? ( a question i ask)

I hope you don't think that i'm being overly insecure, but it is disheartening. Does anyone else hear this garbage too?

I deal with this bullcrap all the time.
-" Pathologist? I thought you wanted to be a real doctor..."
But pathologist ARE real doctors
-"I'm disappointed, i thought you would be helping people...you are a people person..."
We are helping people. You have to be a people person to be good in path.

One really has to live their own life, it is too short. I got funny looks when I told people I was going into path, but on the other hand, I GAVE funny looks when people told me they were going into ortho (I'm guilty, I couldn't help it).

 

[yaah]

I deal with this bullcrap all the time.

Just had to say I love the word bullcrap.

Good points converse! I think so many people go into med school with a bit of tunnel vision. Their vision of the ideal doctor is someone either in the OR, at the bedside, or the private office with the "Dr Joe Schmo, MD" hanging in the window. Some people get a bit beyond this, whether it is through competitiveness or whatever, and see that there are "peripheral" fields like radiology, ER, anesthesia where they can still be doctors but not worry about some of the stuff they don't like.

Fewer people, however, see path for the field it is. I think a lot of it has to do with the short attention span of people in this country and the aspiration to fit the ideal media-driven definition of what a doctor is. Some people do look hard at path and find it isn't for them. That's fine. Some people also really do love being one of the typical kinds of doctor. That's also fine.

I gave people funny looks too when they told me what fields they were going into. They were always kind of surprised. The future dermatologist just assumed that everyone wanted to go into derm, and that lots of people just weren't qualified enough.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

I deal with this bullcrap all the time.
-" Pathologist? I thought you wanted to be a real doctor..."
I case they don't know, pathologist ARE real doctors
-"I'm disappointed, i thought you would be helping people...you are a people person..."
We are helping people. You have to be a people person to be good in path.

People who say stuff like this are ignorant and I don't really care to enlighten them.
One really has to live their own life, it is too short. I got funny looks when I told people I was going into path, but on the other hand, I GAVE funny looks when people told me they were going into ortho (I'm guilty, I couldn't help it). Heck, I gave funny looks when people told me they were going into IM. Why do people want to torture themshelves? I guess different strokes for different folks.

Listen to your heart, not to other people who don't know or are just as lost and confused as you are. They aren't you, and therefore, don't know what's best for you. If you listen/follow the orthos, bend backwards, leave path to a field more fit to their narrow vision of what a doctor should be, you may gain their "respect." But what good is it? Is it worth being a a job you dislike for the rest of your life? For me, they can take their love and respect and shove it. I don't need it and I know what I'm doing. Really, the joke's on them. I met many doctors who realized this later in life and switched over to path.

Totally dude. Also, I get the impression that all this "bullcrap" will never really stop. I just got crap from a random moonlighter who overheard me telling a nurse that I was going into pathology. He asked me why I was doing the subI rotation. That guy was ignorant because he should have realized that subI's are REQUIRED and that I have do this whether I like it or not. And yes, I did tell him to "Bring It" (just kidding...but I should have 🙂 )

I laughed when I saw you say "the joke's on them." You're the second person to say that now. LOL.