No MCAT!

[~~premed82~~]

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I recently found out that some one I know (who by the way just graduated from HS)-has gotten in to a medical school in Russia(?)! No MCAT- only complete two semesters of college and on her way. I'm confused, anyone heard of this program and what it's about? I have heard of going to the Carribean, but Russia-is there some program I don't know about?


Thanks!

 

[mcat_study]

yes, you don;t need MCAT to go to med school in russia. but you will still have to take USMLE to practice med in the US, and u have to be fluent in russian (i don;t think they have English instructors). i was accepted there, but being a US med school graduate will give me broader choices and more chances to land a good residency. But dunno, just my 2 cents. also they don;t have very modern hospitals, not equipped well, so it could be a down side in ur learning experience.

 

[~~premed82~~]

yes, you don;t need MCAT to go to med school in russia. but you will still have to take USMLE to practice med in the US, and u have to be fluent in russian. i was accepted there, but being a US med school graduate will give me broader choices and more chances to land a good residency. But dunno, just my 2 cents.

Thanks for the in-put, much appreciated!

 

[physiodoc]

anyone know any other schools where no MCAT is needed? ...just in case lol

 

[docolive]

Most of the european schools that do not need the MCAT are 6-year programs starting after highschool. These days, most schools in Eastern Europe require the MCAT if you are applying to a 4 year program, as a citizen of the United States. So, the only way you really can by-pass the mcat is if you are a highschool graduate (an impressive one at that) who goes straight to medical school.

 

[CardiacIntensivist]

anyone know any other schools where no MCAT is needed? ...just in case lol

Australia

 

[MEG@COOL]

In Soviet Russia....

 

[deleted106503]

Isn't there a place in the Cayman Islands that doesn't require it?

 

[smuwillobrien]

McMaster in Canada doesn't require the MCAT.

 

[akinf]

McMaster, The University of Ottawa, Universite de Montreal, Universite de Laval, Universite de Sherbrooke, and the Northern Ontario School of Medicine all do not require the MCAT. These are all Canadian medical schools.

 

[dr.kicia]

I recently found out that some one I know (who by the way just graduated from HS)-has gotten in to a medical school in Russia(?)! No MCAT- only complete two semesters of college and on her way. I'm confused, anyone heard of this program and what it's about? I have heard of going to the Carribean, but Russia-is there some program I don't know about?


Thanks!

some caribbean schools do not need MCAT though it's hIGHLY recomended....example here can be Saba which as far as i am concerned is one of the best caribbean schools. As far as European schools go i highly advise you not to go Eastern Europe for your education. There are a lot of school which are established for the one and only reson----money. You can go to Hungary(Debrecen), Czech Repb., Poland(Jagiellonian or Karol Marcinkowski in Poznan) etc...but you will always be FMG.

I am from Poland. Polish med schools suck in every respect, especially english division programs. There is school in Warsaw that also doesn't require MCAT but i would never go to Poland for medical education (you can research my posts for more info on Polish schools).
If you want to acctually learn, and not just get a paper on which it will say you're doctor, i suggest american schools and then if you do not get in go for caribbean. European schools have a different teaching program that doesn't really prepare you for boards (a lot of ppl fail them). Asside from that none of them will let you do more then 6 weeks of clinicals in US...which as you may or may not know are very important for getting LORs for your residency.
All caribbean schools have 2 years of clinicals in US.

But to be honest it's always best to do your education in the country where you want to practice. Otherwise you run into whole bunch of licencing problems.
Rush is not good in medicine and your friend who went to RUssia will realize in few years that it wasn't the best move. You need to realize that you will be a doctor...wouldn't you want to KNOW what you are doing? Ppl's life will depend on your expertise...
just my $0.02

 

[~~premed82~~]

some caribbean schools do not need MCAT though it's hIGHLY recomended....example here can be Saba which as far as i am concerned is one of the best caribbean schools. As far as European schools go i highly advise you not to go Eastern Europe for your education. There are a lot of school which are established for the one and only reson----money. You can go to Hungary(Debrecen), Czech Repb., Poland(Jagiellonian or Karol Marcinkowski in Poznan) etc...but you will always be FMG.

I am from Poland. Polish med schools suck in every respect, especially english division programs. There is school in Warsaw that also doesn't require MCAT but i would never go to Poland for medical education (you can research my posts for more info on Polish schools).
If you want to acctually learn, and not just get a paper on which it will say you're doctor, i suggest american schools and then if you do not get in go for caribbean. European schools have a different teaching program that doesn't really prepare you for boards (a lot of ppl fail them). Asside from that none of them will let you do more then 6 weeks of clinicals in US...which as you may or may not know are very important for getting LORs for your residency.
All caribbean schools have 2 years of clinicals in US.

But to be honest it's always best to do your education in the country where you want to practice. Otherwise you run into whole bunch of licencing problems.
Rush is not good in medicine and your friend who went to RUssia will realize in few years that it wasn't the best move. You need to realize that you will be a doctor...wouldn't you want to KNOW what you are doing? Ppl's life will depend on your expertise...
just my $0.02

Wow! Excellent advise indeed. I really feel for her, as of now she has not taken any advise we've offered-she's hell bent. My fear is she will regret this in the long-run. Not to mention she is only 19 yrs. old-I just hope it does not turn into a issue where she has to come back and start back at the freshmen level.

$0.02 worth 1 million dollars. Thanks!

Peace

 

[dr.kicia]

Wow! Excellent adivse indeed. I really feel for her, as of now she has not taken any adivse we've offered-she's hell bent. My fear is she will regret this in the long-run. Not to mention she is only 19 yrs. old-I just hope it does not turn into a issue where she has to come back and start back at the freshmen level.

$0.02 worth 1 million dollars. Thanks!

Peace

i also forgot to mention that none of Polish or Russian english division 4yr MD programs are approved by all 50 states, which means that you can NEVER practice for example. in Cali or NY(those are the most strickted states in terms of FMGs)...you cannot even do clinicals there. You may get your licence in let's say Wisconsin and even do fellowship in let's say neurosurgery but if your school wasn't approved at the time of your graduation by Cali you will never be able to practice in Cali....i think this is the most important factor by which Caribbean schools win over Estern European onces.

I could have easily go for Polish med school, pay 8k a year and get my MD there... but i've seen their hospitals and school labs and talked to the med students...and by all means this would be the LAST aalternative on my list...first of all i want to be a DO and second of all i would not want to learn from docs who are 10 years behind US technology. I do not want to just do it...i want too do it RIGHT.

 

[DiverDoc]

Isn't there a place in the Cayman Islands that doesn't require it?

St. Matthews SOM... And they do now

 

[Schaden Freud]

Yeah, but you have to live in Russia...

I recently found out that some one I know (who by the way just graduated from HS)-has gotten in to a medical school in Russia(?)! No MCAT- only complete two semesters of college and on her way. I'm confused, anyone heard of this program and what it's about? I have heard of going to the Carribean, but Russia-is there some program I don't know about?


Thanks!

 

[UMP]

i also forgot to mention that none of Polish or Russian english division 4yr MD programs are approved by all 50 states, which means that you can NEVER practice for example. in Cali or NY(those are the most strickted states in terms of FMGs)...you cannot even do clinicals there. You may get your licence in let's say Wisconsin and even do fellowship in let's say neurosurgery but if your school wasn't approved at the time of your graduation by Cali you will never be able to practice in Cali....i think this is the most important factor by which Caribbean schools win over Estern European onces.

I could have easily go for Polish med school, pay 8k a year and get my MD there... but i've seen their hospitals and school labs and talked to the med students...and by all means this would be the LAST aalternative on my list...first of all i want to be a DO and second of all i would not want to learn from docs who are 10 years behind US technology. I do not want to just do it...i want too do it RIGHT.

wow... you're being blunt and harsh, but fairly on the money.
op: Your friend is probably going in to one of these English division programs, where the teaching will be in English... teaching style is different, you need a translator during clinicals, culture shock, life is not as easy in Russia...
there is also a bit of a problem with the Xenophobic skinhead russian gangs that seem to attack foreigners constantly... if she is white she'll probably be ok, but if she looks just slightly non-Russian she'll have to move around in groups and be scared for her life most of her time there...
then the problem is that Cali has only accredited the drbecen and the prague 6-year english programs... i can go on and on, I've done my research too, it's an awful idea

 

[gujuDoc]

Australia

Actually I had a friend who was trying to go to Australia for medical school because she wants to settle there and she said they DO require the MCAT.

 

[~~premed82~~]

wow... you're being blunt and harsh, but fairly on the money.
op: Your friend is probably going in to one of these English division programs, where the teaching will be in English... teaching style is different, you need a translator during clinicals, culture shock, life is not as easy in Russia...
there is also a bit of a problem with the Xenophobic skinhead russian gangs that seem to attack foreigners constantly... if she is white she'll probably be ok, but if she looks just slightly non-Russian she'll have to move around in groups and be scared for her life most of her time there...
then the problem is that Cali has only accredited the drbecen and the prague 6-year english programs... i can go on and on, I've done my research too, it's an awful idea

This is getting me even more worried, she is from India. Please PM me if you have any other in-put. I am just definitely hoping this turns out for the best and that she comes back in one piece.


Thanks

 

[dr.kicia]

This is getting me even more worried, she is from India. Please PM me if you have any other in-put. I am just definitely hoping this turns out for the best and that she comes back in one piece.


Thanks

well i am not using pm because i know that sometime soon there will be people with that same questions needed to be answeared. UMP is very right. Poland has the same problem, especially around town called Katowice. There is a med school there and about a year and a half ago an idian student from US(he was at the 4yr-MD program) was stubbed to death by one of skinheads in the club.
As far as i know Russia is even worse.

To UMP: yeah i am harsh because i know the reality over there...I also know that English Division students are at best only hated by polish students who think that ED do not know anything and they only get in to med school becaus ethe pay big $$$ for it.
This is the overall idea that Polsih ppl have. They think that American Schools are worthless and that we all here are dumb and do not know where Africa is on the map.
I know because i was told when i was there 3 months ago that it is probobly very easy for me to be at the university because American Education is for "retared" ppl. Poles also think that they are so very smart that they would be greeted on the airport by HArvard representatives just to agree to go to that school...And learning in a country where the professor on neurosurgery is barely standing and smells like liquor store is not my idea for learning medicine. I spoke to students who said that once i have a good TA it's a group effort on the exams....this just blown me with no words...If you turn on Polish news every day there is some talk about a doctor who accidently killed a patient because for instance he didn't practice anestesiology for 6 years and was called in for surgery....i mean i could go on and on.

 

[BigRedPremed]

You guys are willing to do med school in another country and have to face all of the bureaucracy bullsh*t when you come back and want to practice just so you can avoid having to study for a couple of months for the MCAT?

 

[BrianUM]

There are ways to get into med school in your own backyard (America) w/o having to take MCAT...I recently got into a BS/MD program at UMiami for college students where I got accepted before I took the MCAT and don't need a minimum score from what I've been told.

 

[BigRedPremed]

There are ways to get into med school in your own backyard (America) w/o having to take MCAT...I recently got into a BS/MD program at UMiami for college students where I got accepted before I took the MCAT and don't need a minimum score from what I've been told.

I was reading your mdapplicants profile. Why are you required to take the MCAT if there are no minimum requirements? In other words, why would the program require you to take the MCAT without specifying a minimum score for you to achieve?

 

[sekem]

I recently found out that some one I know (who by the way just graduated from HS)-has gotten in to a medical school in Russia(?)! No MCAT- only complete two semesters of college and on her way. I'm confused, anyone heard of this program and what it's about? I have heard of going to the Carribean, but Russia-is there some program I don't know about?


Thanks!

This is the funniest this ever! Why on earth you need MCAT to go to Russia? Don't you know you only need MCAT for U.S?

 

[BrianUM]

I was reading your mdapplicants profile. Why are you required to take the MCAT if there are no minimum requirements? In other words, why would the program require you to take the MCAT without specifying a minimum score for you to achieve?

Various reasons. For someone who was applying for the program after the requirements for the program changed, they are required to maintain a 3.7 gpa science and overall and get a 26 MCAT. The requirements changed after I enrolled as a college freshman so I only need a 3.4 overall, 3.2 science and no min MCAT from what I've been told.

The reasons that they make you take the MCAT may be to evaluate whether not your ready for medical school (they could hold you back an extra yr in college if they wish), make scholarship decisions, etc. It appears to be more of a formality.

 

[UMP]

there is a forum that has a bunch of info on caribbean and foreign schools in general...

here is the subforum for EE and Russian schools:

http://www.valuemd.com/european-russian-medical-schools/

try posing your questions there, you'll generally get a pretty honest assessment since most people over there will not try to sugar coat it.

These programs are very YOUNG... the oldest being 12-15 years old. Who knows, maybe within a decade they will be as good as the carib programs or even better. But, as most people on that website will tell you, exhaust every possible option to go to school in the US.


One last note to the OP:

convince your friend to go to one of the Polish, Czech, or Hungarian schools if she is dead set on the Eastern European option. There might be a gap in living standards between the US and Poland, but there is a gigantic canyon between the US and Russia... Russia is a third world country in many regards. The Polish, Czech, and Hungarian schools will also give her the option of practicing in all the European Union countries, whereas Russia will not. Stop your friend... the more I think about it, she is making a TERRIBLE decision

 

[UMP]

well i am not using pm because i know that sometime soon there will be people with that same questions needed to be answeared. UMP is very right. Poland has the same problem, especially around town called Katowice. There is a med school there and about a year and a half ago an idian student from US(he was at the 4yr-MD program) was stubbed to death by one of skinheads in the club.
As far as i know Russia is even worse.

To UMP: yeah i am harsh because i know the reality over there...I also know that English Division students are at best only hated by polish students who think that ED do not know anything and they only get in to med school becaus ethe pay big $$$ for it.
This is the overall idea that Polsih ppl have. They think that American Schools are worthless and that we all here are dumb and do not know where Africa is on the map.
I know because i was told when i was there 3 months ago that it is probobly very easy for me to be at the university because American Education is for "retared" ppl. Poles also think that they are so very smart that they would be greeted on the airport by HArvard representatives just to agree to go to that school...And learning in a country where the professor on neurosurgery is barely standing and smells like liquor store is not my idea for learning medicine. I spoke to students who said that once i have a good TA it's a group effort on the exams....this just blown me with no words...If you turn on Polish news every day there is some talk about a doctor who accidently killed a patient because for instance he didn't practice anestesiology for 6 years and was called in for surgery....i mean i could go on and on.

problem is with the massive brain drain in Poland with the best leaving for northern europe or the british isles... if you were paid less than the bus drivers in your country wouldn't you want to move too?
Last time I heard an IM doc got about 800-1000 zl a month, which is about $300 ... I'd get my MD and run to Western Europe in a second, where countries like Sweden are recruting you to come due to their doctor shortage. They offer insane incentives like houses and cars and pay that is astronomical compared to what the bankrupt socialized medicine in Poland gives out...

 

[dr.kicia]

This is the funniest this ever! Why on earth you need MCAT to go to Russia? Don't you know you only need MCAT for U.S?

ummmm...you need to do some research on this topic still...
Yes you do need MCAT for many EnglishDivision MD programs outside of US.

 

[dr.kicia]

problem is with the massive brain drain in Poland with the best leaving for northern europe or the british isles... if you were paid less than the bus drivers in your country wouldn't you want to move too?
Last time I heard an IM doc got about 800-1000 zl a month, which is about $300 ... I'd get my MD and run to Western Europe in a second, where countries like Sweden are recruting you to come due to their doctor shortage. They offer insane incentives like houses and cars and pay that is astronomical compared to what the bankrupt socialized medicine in Poland gives out...

i totally agree with you on that...in Poland doctors are either rediculously rich or make nothing and have not even a chance to do residency...but this wasn't my argument LOL.
The argument was wether Polish med schools are on the same level as US ones. And i think we know the answer to that question.

 

[CardiacIntensivist]

Actually I had a friend who was trying to go to Australia for medical school because she wants to settle there and she said they DO require the MCAT.

Hmm.. then it must be certain medical schools there. I met a 20 year old 2nd year medical student from Australia over the summer who went to medical school out of high school and never heard of the MCAT or even of the application process we have here in America. She was quite shocked when I told her all about it.

 

[docolive]

Hmm.. then it must be certain medical schools there. I met a 20 year old 2nd year medical student from Australia over the summer who went to medical school out of high school and never heard of the MCAT or even of the application process we have here in America. She was quite shocked when I told her all about it.

Yes, because people going straight out of highschool into 6 year programs do not need to take the MCAT.

 

[stiffany]

Yes, because people going straight out of highschool into 6 year programs do not need to take the MCAT.

They're not six year programs definitively in other countries. For instance, in the UK you bust your bum during high school and your A levels and then head on to medical school after graduating from high school for three years (or four years if you want a special distinction related to research and high honors).

 

[docolive]

They're not six year programs definitively in other countries. For instance, in the UK you bust your bum during high school and your A levels and then head on to medical school after graduating from high school for three years (or four years if you want a special distinction related to research and high honors).

Oh definitely..but that is because of the quality of secondary education that one receives in Western european countries. There are some people who graduated from a college prep I attended in the U.S. that went straight into 6yr medical programs in Poland.... one of whom received an internship at Yale as well. Now she is an MD practicing on the east coast.
My response was all over the place, but just thought I'd share. This was in the 1990's.

 

[dr.kicia]

Oh definitely..but that is because of the quality of secondary education that one receives in Western european countries. There are some people who graduated from a college prep I attended in the U.S. that went straight into 6yr medical programs in Poland.... one of whom received an internship at Yale as well. Now she is an MD practicing on the east coast.
My response was all over the place, but just thought I'd share. This was in the 1990's.

unfortunatelly things have changed...and not for the better.
I can only speek for Poland since it's my country of origin and i know its reality.
If you are a Polish hs student it really doesn't matter if you get all D's throughout hs....what matters is the entrance exam.
When i took it ppl would go to the bathroom and write out proplems for their friends etc....it's crazy

 

[docolive]

unfortunatelly things have changed...and not for the better.
I can only speek for Poland since it's my country of origin and i know its reality.
If you are a Polish hs student it really doesn't matter if you get all D's throughout hs....what matters is the entrance exam.
When i took it ppl would go to the bathroom and write out proplems for their friends etc....it's crazy

oh my. That's a shame.
🙁

 

[dr.kicia]

oh my. That's a shame.
🙁

yeah...i have crossed the alternative of getting medical education in Poland from my list....though i could have been right now in Poland in my MS1...i rather do it the right way!

 

[docolive]

yeah...i have crossed the alternative of getting medical education in Poland from my list....though i could have been right now in Poland in my MS1...i rather do it the right way!

Yes, I agree. Who knows what may happen in the next decade....it may become nearly impossible to get your residency of choice, let alone the fact that you must take additional examinations like ECFMG. Better to go to a good school here, with the right curriculum and clinical experience to ace those boards!

 

[mdthisyear]

The ECFMG is not an additional exam that non-US grads need to take. It stands for: The Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates. A foreign md needs to take only those exams a US MD takes-step 1, 2 and the Clinical skills exam. Once you pass these tests, these folks certify you. This certification is required to start your residency in the US.

Don't know about the living standards in those countries, but the grads from there (the original ones from there, not the folks who go there from the US to get their MD degree) are of a high standard.

Safety does seem to be a concern if your skin colour makes you stand out. Recently an Indian student was stabbed to death in St. Petersburg.

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2006/09/25/studentkilled.shtml

 

[~~premed82~~]

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2006/09/25/studentkilled.shtml

DAAAAANG!