No More DentiCal!!!

[Valleyfornia]

whats up everyone,

I was just wondering what students in california dental schools feel about this, and what their schools have said about this issue. Patient pool sizes are going to drop without denti-cal so what is your school doing about this, if anything?

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[xhamburgersamx]

hOpefully the schools starts promoting some kind of incentive deals based on referral, coupons, family, etc.

It's so true that many patients in California were on dentical or some sort of low-income or social security insurance benefits. Tough times have to be met with even tougher measures.

I'm thinking an increase in tuition over the next 3 years to compensate for lost-income + extra funds to assists really poor patients. Lay off professors, decrease working hours, limit supplies, etc. This only makes sense.

I don't think any school will lower graduation requirements.

 

[54807]

Yeah...this will likely suck.

Of my 30 or so patients, only 2 are dentical. However, my peers have a much larger pool of dentical patients and they have stated it would be a major loss.

Everytime dentical cuts happen, there is a lawsuit against the state by medical patients. So we shall see what happens.

The reality is that there is no money, and teeth care is less important than overall body care. So money will be kept in medical....

I don't think Pacific has the ability to raise student fees that much more. They are already super high and faculty are already paid rock bottom. So what can they do?

The patient fees are also pretty high for the population served. So another toughy.

 

[mike3kgt]

I'm thinking an increase in tuition over the next 3 years to compensate for lost-income + extra funds to assists really poor patients. Lay off professors, decrease working hours, limit supplies, etc. This only makes sense.

Although it seems logical and the only way to go, it simply won't happen. Students more often than not will step up and find the patients and dental schools usually won't help. Schools certainly don't want to be giving away treatment for free to anybody.

Comprehensive adult medicaid is absolutely the most egregious thing I have ever witnessed in my professional career. I moved from Florida to Ohio and have found a huge difference dentistry-wise. Adult medicaid in FL = extraction & dentures and that's it. Here in Ohio, they cover almost everything including RCT, composites, and crowns (anterior)!!!

I think all state should terminate their adult medicaid dental coverage (except extractions & dentures) and transfer those dollars saved and transfer it into helping the children who are truly suffering. Children should not suffer through pain or hardship because of the actions (or lack-thereof) of their parents. I have seen it too many times to stomach it.

The dental schools will find a way to work without medicaid coverage, just like we did down at Nova. It is a shame, however, that students suffer because of lost patients (requirements) due to no medicaid funding, but you will find a way to finish your requirements, keep proactive! If anything, it will be a great lesson for you as a dentist to learn how to talk to your patients and help to convince them to take ownership of their health and mouths rather than only do "what insurance covers."

As for the truly poor, I can honestly say that I feel bad for them now they no longer having a source to go to when things get really bad with their teeth. A good many of the patients on medicaid, however, that I have seen have a cell phone and smoke 1-2 packs of cigarettes a day. Just letting go of smoking for a month can pay for a good amount of low-cost dentistry at the dental school. Remember, nobody will die because they did not receive a maxillary partial, or because they failed to fix a leaky composite, but you sure as heck can die from a tooth abscess and will significantly suffer due to malnourishment (rationale for extractions & dentures). Medical medicaid services probably will still be there to cover these patients who swell up and will be able to get antibiotics from the hospital until they can get money for an extraction

After working in public health for 1.5 years, I can tell you that people do, and will, find a way to pay for an extraction... if for only that one tooth. There are dental schools with fees lower than private practice to depend upon, and there are usually community health clinics and free clinics (depending on your area).

I say, good riddance DentiCal!

 

[54807]

I think all state should terminate their adult medicaid dental coverage (except extractions & dentures) and transfer those dollars saved and transfer it into helping the children who are truly suffering. Children should not suffer through pain or hardship because of the actions (or lack-thereof) of their parents. I have seen it too many times to stomach it.

I agree with you quite a bit. We also have a program that pays for LOTS of dental treatment in our HIV population. There are cases floating around in the $20k+. Ludicrous. The number of $X00 cases is huge.

How many kids' sealants, exams, and fillings could be done with $20k....

 

[Valleyfornia]

Denti-Cal for children is/will still be in effect, its just the adult denti-cal that is being cut as of July 1 2009.

I just think that not having adult denti-cal will cause many low cost/dentical provider offices to go out of business, essentially making dental care for "rich folks" only. Those who can't afford dental care will just wait till the pain becomes so bad that they would have to go to the ER, causing the state more money.

but it looks like the schools have already felt the hit, apparently UCSF has already let some of their faculty go (according to a post on the pre-dent forum)

 

[spearmint]

Although it seems logical and the only way to go, it simply won't happen. Students more often than not will step up and find the patients and dental schools usually won't help. Schools certainly don't want to be giving away treatment for free to anybody.

Although it has not taken effect yet, the President and Regents of all the UC's are discussing measures to keep the UC system afloat, and one of which is to raise students' cost. So yes, it will be likely that the schools will have to increase tuition. They will be mandating furloughs and salary reductions across the board for staff and faculty. So, I'm not surprised if the dental schools have had to let go of a few of their faculties already. It sucks all around 👎. (I think the schools should increase the number of students they admit to bring in more cash 😛)

I'm not sure how the CA schools are going to be able to provide all their students with enough clinical exposure with such a dramatic loss of their patient pool in a short period of time.

 

[mike3kgt]

...So yes, it will be likely that the schools will have to increase tuition. They will be mandating furloughs and salary reductions across the board for staff and faculty. So, I'm not surprised if the dental schools have had to let go of a few of their faculties already. It sucks all around 👎.

This is happening in many places around the county. Some schools are letting go of faculty and others are simply having hiring freezes.

(I think the schools should increase the number of students they admit to bring in more cash 😛)

This is also, tragically, happening in many schools across the country.

I'm not sure how the CA schools are going to be able to provide all their students with enough clinical exposure with such a dramatic loss of their patient pool in a short period of time.

Students often times will find a way to get their stuff done, however, there will absolutely be difficulties in the short term. Hopefully if students are affected, the administration will recognize the potentially shortcomings... emphasis on the 'hopefully'.

Remember, that many times people end up in dental schools because it's the cheapest option in their town. The school where I went to did not participate in any dental benefit plans or government plans and we had patients coming out of our ears. Recruit patients, bring them in, get your friends, do whatever you can (ethically) so that way you are 100% done on the last day of clinic.

Maybe not basing their clinics around DentiCal there will be a lot of openings for traditional patients to come in and do some nice dentistry. Ask yourself is the glass is half-full or half-empty?

California has some serious budget issues right now, so I don't put anything past them in terms of making serious and painful cuts. I feel for any student or professional who is practicing in CA at this current time.

 

[Daurang]

California, like Government Motors, is controlled by union hacks and too big to fail. Obama will save the day because the feds can print unlimited amounts of money to hand out to every irresponsible loser.

 

[DrReo]

California, like Government Motors, is controlled by union hacks and too big to fail. Obama will save the day because the feds can print unlimited amounts of money to hand out to every irresponsible loser.

Isn't this what the gubberment is suppose to do? They love to regulate. Let's get back to celebrating Al Franken's win!

 

[Daurang]

Why can't they just live within their means like the rest of us? You're very selfish to pass all that debts down to your children and grandchildren. It's not a sutainable path when a bunch of public union employees get to retire at 55 with pension equal to 90% of their salary. It's not sustainable when illegals can just get all their schooling and foodstamps and medical care for free. Do you want your taxes to go up some more for such nonsense? Why is it 'charitable' to take someone else's money to give to such nonsense but 'selfish' to try to save your own hardeearned money?

 

[DrReo]

Why can't they just live within their means like the rest of us? You're very selfish to pass all that debts down to your children and grandhildren. It's not a sutainable path when a bunch of public union employees get to retire at 55 with pension equal to 90% of their salary. It's not sustainable when illegals can just get all their schooling and foodstamps and medical care for free. Do you want your taxes to go up some more for such nonsense? Why is it 'charitable' to take someone else's money to give to such nonsense but 'selfish' to try to save your own hardeearned money?

Politician's love to give away anything that isn't theirs. They love to reward those who do not have the motivation, work ethic, dedication, or whatever the excuse is to hold a job and provide for their family. I understand the means for foodstamps, dentical and medical care for a limited time. The programs should not allow for a lifer status. Why punish those who have worked hard for their reward with taxes? With regards to illegals in the country, more severe consequences should occur when an illegal is spot and/or hired by Walmart or whoever wants the cheap labor. Astronomical fines, punishment by exucution, etc. would eliminate this or put a greater fear in the law benders. There's no reason why the American People should pay for anyone but themselves, especially illegal aliens. I'm glad we have a group full of airheads who think opposite running the house.

 

[youngmc27]

As someone who is just starting clinic I have to say that this sucks. I know our school has a lot of Dentical patients and I hope that we weill still be ablr to get all we need to complete our graduation requirements

 

[UCSFAlumni]

One of the fundamental taxes on everyone, like everything else in this this financial meltdown, originates in housing costs. As housing costs inflate, so must salaries. IMO the problem is not that so many organizations and schools didn't live within their means, but rather, it's the fault of every individual who bought a home in the last 30 years by bidding up rather than down. If you look at Fed statistics over the last 60 years personal savings as a proportion of income reached a high in 1980 at 10% of income and plummeted to less than zero by 2008. 1980 was when the modern derivatives market first took off. Sub-primes came along later, as well as crazier lending rules, to super-deflate people's savings and common sense, but the trend was well under way by that time. Money was already being sucked from the greater population to enrich, not homeowners who only held the illusion of greater wealth, but those in investment banking. The problem was and still is that the cost of housing is not proportionally matched to productivity.

For comparison, look at home prices to income in the 1950's ... only twice the median income. Try more like 4-12 times that today. It is not sustainable. It could also be an effect of the bulge cohort getting desperate all at the same time, but either way there was declining common sense starting in 1980.

But it's not the first time this has happened, - prior to the stock collapse which officially triggered the "Great Depression" of the 1930's, there was also a collapse in real estate, which like today, had inflated into a bubble.

I feel sorry for my old alma mater, but I am curious, if I remember correctly, although UCSF accepted Dentical, most of the Dentical patients seen usually had dental problems too far gone to be of much use as teaching patients or for use in exams. Most of the ideal lesion cases came from people not on Dentical who just wanted to save money (since it is half the cost of usual fees in the "real" world). I would think a loss of Dentical might actually encourage some people to stick with the dental school since they won't get a better deal anywhere else.

 

[katterine7]

I see a lot of people on this board agree that government interventions are not profitable for anyone. Especially not for your children. To bring it even closer to home than Denti-Cal issues, what do you guys think of the requirements that the ADA imposes on dentists offices. The regulation preventing for example dental hygienists to open their own independent offices. This would reduce the cost of dentistry and lower the hassles a typical dentist office has. Would you support deregulation of dental hygienists?

 

[DrJeff]

I see a lot of people on this board agree that government interventions are not profitable for anyone. Especially not for your children. To bring it even closer to home than Denti-Cal issues, what do you guys think of the requirements that the ADA imposes on dentists offices. The regulation preventing for example dental hygienists to open their own independent offices. This would reduce the cost of dentistry and lower the hassles a typical dentist office has. Would you support deregulation of dental hygienists?

What you find in the vast majority of situations where hygienists are allowed to open up on their own and practice independent of the direct supervision of a dentist (Colorado was the 1st state to allow this roughly 5 years ago) is the following:

1) there's not as much excitement/interest amongt hygienists to leave a dentists supervised practice and open their own business as one might think

2) For those hygienists that do open up their own practices independent of a dentists, the overhead quickly becomes an issue

3) Referrals back for treatment issues. What happens, and how do patients handle when some dental pathology is identified by the independent hygienist and further dentist rendered treatment is needed?? Will that patient follow up to seek care???

What has happened in Colorado is that many of the hygienist owned independent practices closed after a while because of the economics. And while for some the idea of owning their own practice may be desireable, often the certainity and comfort that a regular, steady, weekly/bi weekly paycheck that can be offered by a dentist owned practice is much more appealing than an independent practice

 

[mrlantern]

I offer my condolences to the present dental students who often rely on DentiCal patients for clinical requirements.

But personally for myself, I don't give a flying **** and am wishing my state does the same. These people don't want dental care anyway, and I don't understand why they bother coming to the dentist and cause a hard time for an exam/cleaning and then keep making fake upcoming appts for restoratives and exos.