no summer after first year -- disadvantage?

[Fermi]

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The school I've chosen to attend this fall has an unusually long M1 year--September through July--which gives me only 4 weeks until classes start again. As I'm sure many students do research and clinical experiences during this summer, will this be a significant disadvantage when it comes to applying for residencies? In other words, did you find that this was really the only time you had to get a significant/unique experience or publication to present on your residency apps? Fourth year is probably the only other similar "elective" time, but by then you're already interviewing.

I've already turned down one other school, which has a regular summer, but I'm waitlisted at another ~equally ranked school which also has a summer. Just wondering how important that summer is?

 

[Winged Scapula]

Having research on your CV is not a requirement, even for competitive specialties, although it would certainly be recommended for those.

Summer is not the only time to work on a project. Faculty at your school will be working in their labs year round - thus you might consider putting in a few hours a week throughout the year rather than committing a whole summer (especially when its so short). They might be glad to have the help at other times. Do you have any time off between 2nd and 3rd year?

There are many, many students who do not have research experience yet manage to get good residencies; even with competitive residencies many students may have research but most are not published. What matters *most* is your gpa and USMLE scores; if those are outstanding you will be competitive at most residency programs.

Hope this helps.

 

[Col_4:14]

Hey Kim, thanks for your post. I have been wondering the same question. Do you HAVE to do research to secure a competitive match??

 

[Winged Scapula]

Originally posted by Col_4:14:
•Hey Kim, thanks for your post. I have been wondering the same question. Do you HAVE to do research to secure a competitive match??•

I don't know of any programs that REQUIRE research, but obviously I don't have experience with all residency programs.

For those applying to competitive specialties, especially those at academic programs, research is suggested and may very well make you a more competitive applicant, but it doesn't replace good USMLE scores, LORs and gpa. I am sure there are applicants who get good residencies without research, but if it possibly makes you a more competitive candidate, it might make sense to do a little...just in case, because at most of those high powered competitive programs EVERYONE has good letters, USMLE scores and gpa. 😀

 

[Hopkins2010]

Originally posted by Kimberli Cox:
•Having research on your CV is not a requirement, even for competitive specialties, although it would certainly be recommended for those.

Summer is not the only time to work on a project. Faculty at your school will be working in their labs year round - thus you might consider putting in a few hours a week throughout the year rather than committing a whole summer (especially when its so short). They might be glad to have the help at other times. Do you have any time off between 2nd and 3rd year?

There are many, many students who do not have research experience yet manage to get good residencies; even with competitive residencies many students may have research but most are not published. What matters *most* is your gpa and USMLE scores; if those are outstanding you will be competitive at most residency programs.

Hope this helps.•

So residency is basically a numbers game and thats it? Med schools keep screaming and yelling about how its important to be well rounded and how they really try to look at all sides of an applicant. Why dont residency programs do the same?

 

[Fermi]

Originally posted by Kimberli Cox:
•Summer is not the only time to work on a project. Faculty at your school will be working in their labs year round - thus you might consider putting in a few hours a week throughout the year rather than committing a whole summer (especially when its so short). They might be glad to have the help at other times. Do you have any time off between 2nd and 3rd year?

Hope this helps.•

Yes, thanks Kimberli. I am definitely going to try to work a part time research project in during school. I will only have 4 weeks between M1 and M2, so I'll just relax then. As for M2-M3, I didn't think anyone really had much of a break. I thought it was basically a month break to study for the boards, then another couple weeks until rotations start. I'll have to check on my schedule. Thanks much for the info though.

 

[Winged Scapula]

baylor21 -

I wouldn't go so far as to say that residency is a "numbers game and that's it." However, like medical school if you don't have the baseline numbers for acceptance then you'll be limiting your chances. I think we had this discussion before on another thread.

I'll be the first to say that my Step 1 score was only average and I'm sure there were a number of Surgery programs who didn't want to take a chance on interviewing an IMG with average Step 1 scores. There were programs which said you had to have > 220 to be interviewed. However, there were obviously a number of programs who were able to see that I had met at least some standard of academic excellence and looked at other factors in my application.

Don't knock being well-rounded - had I had the same Step 1 scores I had but without other interesting things on my app, its highly likely I would not have gotten many interviews or even a position. And with especially competitive programs, being well-rounded and having extra-curriculars helps differentiate you from all the other AOA, 99% USMLE candidates.

Bottom line is that for competitive specialties there are some academic qualifications which programs will require - some make a bigger deal out of USMLE scores than others (ie, setting a minimum score for applicants) - once you've made those, it is the extra-curriculars, LORs, etc. which can make or break you as a candidate. Numbers aren't everything, but they get your foot in the door; the situation is the same for the residency candidate as it is for the pre-med with a 3.0/25 - you've gotta be awfully special in other areas to be *the one* the programs select. IMHO, numbers are the first thing programs look at - and that can determine whether or not the rest of your application gets looked at, at some programs.

As an aside, when you apply through ERAS you can see what programs have downloaded from the ERAS server. It was pretty obvious when programs only downloaded my USMLE scores (although my Step 2 was above average) that I wasn't gonna get invited for an interview when they hadn't bothered to download my transcript, my LORs or personal statement. 🙁 Their loss I tell myself.

 

[lilycat]

baylor21, I think it really depends on the program. I worked at a major academic medical center the last two years, and I met with the residency directors of several of the programs there to ask what they look for in their applicants. All of them emphasized grades, mainly clinical grades, first. Their rationale was that if you were getting honors in the clinical years, you probably did pretty well pre-clinical too. A few of the residency directors barely mentioned Step 1 scores (although I think that is unusual), going off of the same rationale that if the person has an outstanding academic record, their Step 1 is probably solid, and also they take into account that some people just do not test well, so again, back to the clinical grades. After that it seemed to be LORs and then extracurrics, in which research and volunteer work/community activism/leadership were all sort of lumped in together. Overall, it did seem very much like med school admissions -- you need to have the "right" numbers to get looked at in the first place, but then your whole app gets evaluated after that, and of course there is the interview.

 

[Fermi]

Originally posted by lilycat:
•After that it seemed to be LORs and then extracurrics, in which research and volunteer work/community activism/leadership were all sort of lumped in together. •

Are you referring to med school extracurrics or pre-medschool as well? I didn't think there was much time for them in med school, especially during clinical years. So that begs two separate questions:

Do you really have enough time to do significant volunteer/community work during school?

Do they look at your pre-medschool record (including undergrad, grad, work. etc.) in detail? How far back do they go?

 

[Winged Scapula]

drfermin...

When you apply for the match using ERAS (Electronic Residency Application Service; nearly all residency programs use it now) you enter the information about your extracurriculars yourself. Therefore, if you want to include pre-med school activities you are allowed; as far as I could see there was no limit to the number of activities you could enter (I entered all medically relavant stuff which went back to HS for me...a LONG time ago).

Do programs look at ECs prior to med school? I don't know although since most of my research and volunteer experience was before medical school and it was commented on during interviews, I would say that they do. Keeping up with such activities in medical school can be hard, but it is no impossible. For example, your AMSA chapter will have opportunities for leadership and community involvement for relatively little time invested. You may find certain clubs on campus appeal to you - Physicians for Social Change, a race or gender related group, Future FPs, etc.

No one really expects you to spend as much time doing community activities and research as you did before medical school (especially during the clinical years), but it IS possible, especially during vacations, summer break, etc. You just might have to look for the opportunities.

Now I'll turn it over to lilycat since she was the one asked the question! 😉

 

[WSU02]

Yes, you DO have time in med school to do volunteer work. You need to choose to spend your time in that way. You just have less time than previously.

One thing that really annoys me is the rumor, endlessly perpetuated, that med students have no time to do ______________. What a bunch of bullcocky! You have time, you just need to let some standards down - for example, my house is not as clean as it used to be. So what, I vacuum every 3 weeks instead of every week. But the time I save I can spend in other ways...like with my family. I could be ranked first in my class - but it isn't worth the time spent studying. I'd rather play peek-a-boo with my baby.
Hopefully, residency programs will recognize the fact that I'm a person with the potential to make a good doctor. I'm betting that they are going to look at the gestalt of my ERAS.
Kristi
sorry for venting...

 

[Winged Scapula]

No worries about venting, Kris. Your pet peeve ranks up there with mine - med students who complain that no one has ever done anything as challenging as they have.

I figure that those who are perpetuating these rumors are generally students who have never had a full time job, let alone a full time job AND going to school (with a family, as some of the SDNers have). If you've never worked those kind of hours, the impact medical school has on your life can seem overwhelming. 😀