non-accredited dental schools

[sunshiney]

I know medical students have the option of going to the Caribbean if they can not get accepted to a school in the states, do dental students have an option like this?

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[ias2512]

I know medical students have the option of going to the Caribbean if they can not get accepted to a school in the states, do dental students have an option like this?

I actually i had the same question for the longest time...
I asked around and everyone told me NO...the US will only recognize dental schools inside the states, if you come from somewhere else you have to do some years in dental school again...not completely sure though...

 

[colt]

Yeah, if you go to a foreign dental school (exception Canada) you would need to do 2 yrs here in America. From what I've read, it is difficult to get in too....some Indians and Asians score almost perfect on the test.

By the time you did 4 yrs undergrad, 4 yrs abroad and 2 more in America.....your debt would be 😱

 

[Dr. Dai Phan]

I actually i had the same question for the longest time...
I asked around and everyone told me NO...the US will only recognize dental schools inside the states, if you come from somewhere else you have to do some years in dental school again...not completely sure though...

The ADA will only recognize dental grads from US and Canada to be licensed to practice in the US. International dental grads must apply and seek advanced standing in US Dental School before awarded the DDS/DMD degrees. Residencies are different as foreign grads can enter programs just like US grads do but they can't practice on their own. DP

 

[fightingspirit]

2 yrs here in America. From what I've read, it is difficult to get in too....some Indians and Asians score almost perfect on the test.

By the time you did 4 yrs undergrad, 4 yrs abroad and 2 more in America.....your debt would be 😱

actually, they usually end up advanced standing for at least 2 years (most do 3). they pay from their pockets the entire tuition or borrow money from private lenders (higher interest rates), given that they have sponsors (usually wealthy familly friends).
in terms of how much would their dept be, well, not much more than ours. in fact, it may be even less. most of those foreign grads pay next to nothing (in dollars) when they attend highschool--and d-school in their home countries. we, on the other hand, usually pay for 4 years of undergrad education here in the states--some of us even pay for highschool. We end up paying for at least 8 years of education all together. they end up paying for at most 3 years so even if they have higher interest rates, in the long run, they may be better off. and in the case of indians and asians, many of them have wealthy relatives here in the states who are perfectly capable of paying the whole thing in cash.

they do face two major hurdles though. because technically every chinese and indian d-school grad wants to come here, the competition for limited spots drives up the admission standards to the max. therefore, it is very common to see 97 and 98 on NBDE1 in their applications. they also have to deal with residency issues. if they are on a student visa, well they would probably need to adjust to working visa (which expires and needs periodic costly renewal). having the licence to practice in the U.S is one thing but being eligible to stay permanently is another! many will end up getting their green cards through marriage though. i would not be surprised if it turns out that many of the indian girls who come here as advanced standing d-students have arranged marriages with indian doctors or indian med-students who are american citizens.

it may difficult for them to specialize though. i dont know...all in all, they are not in a situation that is as bad as one would think it is. hey, at least the dental profession makes them pay a buck or two before they start reaping the benefits. in the medical profession, it seems to be less fair for americans! all the foreign grads need to do is take the USMLEs, pass'em and voila! they are in internal medicine making a very decent income. and beleive it or not, if they score high on their USMLEs and their uncle or friend is also indian or from the same country and is the head of say the radiology dept., then they may very well land lucrative lifestyle medical specialties like rediology, derm and pathology. the foreign grad may have paid next to nothing for his/her education in the home country and yet find him/herself working side by side with the american kid who will have spent a fortune on private undergrad and medical schools.

 

[colt]

actually, they usually end up advanced standing for at least 2 years (most do 3). they pay from their pockets the entire tuition or borrow money from private lenders (higher interest rates), given that they have sponsors (usually wealthy familly friends).
in terms of how much would their dept be, well, not much more than ours. in fact, it may be even less. most of those foreign grads pay next to nothing (in dollars) when they attend highschool--and d-school in their home countries. we, on the other hand, usually pay for 4 years of undergrad education here in the states--some of us even pay for highschool. We end up paying for at least 8 years of education all together. they end up paying for at most 3 years so even if they have higher interest rates, in the long run, they may be better off. and in the case of indians and asians, many of them have wealthy relatives here in the states who are perfectly capable of paying the whole thing in cash.

I was referring to American citizens doing undergrad in US and going abroad for d-school....then trying to come back for 2 more years(kinda like the carrib med students). That would be 10-12 yrs of school, and from what I've read, the foreign schools are expensive.

 

[fightingspirit]

I was referring to American citizens doing undergrad in US and going abroad for d-school....then trying to come back for 2 more years(kinda like the carrib med students). That would be 10-12 yrs of school, and from what I've read, the foreign schools are expensive.

oh i see....sure they are expensive for americans. they charge them way way more than their own....lol

 

[NonTradMed]

in the medical profession, it seems to be less fair for americans! all the foreign grads need to do is take the USMLEs, pass'em and voila! they are in internal medicine making a very decent income. and beleive it or not, if they score high on their USMLEs and their uncle or friend is also indian or from the same country and is the head of say the radiology dept., then they may very well land lucrative lifestyle medical specialties like rediology, derm and pathology. the foreign grad may have paid next to nothing for his/her education in the home country and yet find him/herself working side by side with the american kid who will have spent a fortune on private undergrad and medical schools.

Actually, from my experience, it's not as easy as just taking the USMLE. One has to take it, then go through the match and redo residency in order to practice.

It's easier said than done because many foreigners come in with English problems. My parents work in a large pham company, and before that, they worked at a state medical school as biologists, so they had many, many friends who were chinese doctors and couldn't get into a residency because their English was so poor.

And when you are competiting against US students who went Carribean, well, there's no contest simply when it comes to language skills. Especially when residency directors are interviewing you and trying to figure out whether to take the native english speaker who went Carribean, or someone witha thick accent.

From the friends who succeeded, the average number of years spent preparing for the USMLE was about 3-4 years of fulltime studying. Of course, if language isn't an issue, and you know all the technical medical terms in english, then it shouldn't be as bad, but from my experience, a lot of foreign physicians don't have that luxury. To have to figure out all those medical terms in english is not doable for many.

As for lucrative specialities, FMG (foreign medical graduates) rarely, if ever match into lucrative fields. Foreign physicians get the 'leftovers' after US graduates match. And so spots like derm are already typically taken by US graduates.

Part of the reason, from my understanding, is that since residencies are funded through medicare by Congress, they are reluctant to allow that training money to go to an FMG. From speaking to some of my parents' FMG friends, many say they are forced to match into undesireable locations and unpopular specialities. Hence, what may seem a cakewalk is complicated by regulations and language barriers.

There is also a lot of discrimination (fairly or not) against doctors who went to other countries to do med school---my roommate whose parents went to med school in england and were fluent in english (obviously) could only do internal medicine, because the better residency spots were given to the US graduates. There are exceptions. Radiology, surgery etc have been given to FMGs, but they are just that, exceptions.

Although foreign physicians don't have to take any money out to eventually practice medicine except for the amount to take the USMLE and do interviews for residencies, it's not as easy as you make it out to be, otherwise, my parents wouldn't have so many physician friends working as lab techs.

 

[duh?]

Excellent post. Thanks for shedding some light on what some foreign medical doctors have to go through to practice in the US. 👍

Actually, from my experience, it's not as easy as just taking the USMLE. One has to take it, then go through the match and redo residency in order to practice.

It's easier said than done because many foreigners come in with English problems. My parents work in a large pham company, and before that, they worked at a state medical school as biologists, so they had many, many friends who were chinese doctors and couldn't get into a residency because their English was so poor.

And when you are competiting against US students who went Carribean, well, there's no contest simply when it comes to language skills. Especially when residency directors are interviewing you and trying to figure out whether to take the native english speaker who went Carribean, or someone witha thick accent.

From the friends who succeeded, the average number of years spent preparing for the USMLE was about 3-4 years of fulltime studying. Of course, if language isn't an issue, and you know all the technical medical terms in english, then it shouldn't be as bad, but from my experience, a lot of foreign physicians don't have that luxury. To have to figure out all those medical terms in english is not doable for many.

As for lucrative specialities, FMG (foreign medical graduates) rarely, if ever match into lucrative fields. Foreign physicians get the 'leftovers' after US graduates match. And so spots like derm are already typically taken by US graduates.

Part of the reason, from my understanding, is that since residencies are funded through medicare by Congress, they are reluctant to allow that training money to go to an FMG. From speaking to some of my parents' FMG friends, many say they are forced to match into undesireable locations and unpopular specialities. Hence, what may seem a cakewalk is complicated by regulations and language barriers.

There is also a lot of discrimination (fairly or not) against doctors who went to other countries to do med school---my roommate whose parents went to med school in england and were fluent in english (obviously) could only do internal medicine, because the better residency spots were given to the US graduates. There are exceptions. Radiology, surgery etc have been given to FMGs, but they are just that, exceptions.

Although foreign physicians don't have to take any money out to eventually practice medicine except for the amount to take the USMLE and do interviews for residencies, it's not as easy as you make it out to be, otherwise, my parents wouldn't have so many physician friends working as lab techs.

 

[fightingspirit]

Actually, from my experience, it's not as easy as just taking the USMLE. One has to take it, then go through the match and redo residency in order to practice.

It's easier said than done because many foreigners come in with English problems. My parents work in a large pham company, and before that, they worked at a state medical school as biologists, so they had many, many friends who were chinese doctors and couldn't get into a residency because their English was so poor.

And when you are competiting against US students who went Carribean, well, there's no contest simply when it comes to language skills. Especially when residency directors are interviewing you and trying to figure out whether to take the native english speaker who went Carribean, or someone witha thick accent.

From the friends who succeeded, the average number of years spent preparing for the USMLE was about 3-4 years of fulltime studying. Of course, if language isn't an issue, and you know all the technical medical terms in english, then it shouldn't be as bad, but from my experience, a lot of foreign physicians don't have that luxury. To have to figure out all those medical terms in english is not doable for many.

As for lucrative specialities, FMG (foreign medical graduates) rarely, if ever match into lucrative fields. Foreign physicians get the 'leftovers' after US graduates match. And so spots like derm are already typically taken by US graduates.

Part of the reason, from my understanding, is that since residencies are funded through medicare by Congress, they are reluctant to allow that training money to go to an FMG. From speaking to some of my parents' FMG friends, many say they are forced to match into undesireable locations and unpopular specialities. Hence, what may seem a cakewalk is complicated by regulations and language barriers.

There is also a lot of discrimination (fairly or not) against doctors who went to other countries to do med school---my roommate whose parents went to med school in england and were fluent in english (obviously) could only do internal medicine, because the better residency spots were given to the US graduates. There are exceptions. Radiology, surgery etc have been given to FMGs, but they are just that, exceptions.

Although foreign physicians don't have to take any money out to eventually practice medicine except for the amount to take the USMLE and do interviews for residencies, it's not as easy as you make it out to be, otherwise, my parents wouldn't have so many physician friends working as lab techs.

true enough, it is not a cakewalk. what i meant was that their plight is less than that of foreign dental grads. as far as language barriers, well, you are right but that does not apply for all FMGs; generally, indians speak english as fluently as americans, if not better. so the language barrier applies mostly to a proportion of FMGs, not to mention the fact that many FMGs will have attended medical schools that teach in english anyways. you have mentioned the chinese but may i remind you that indian, pakistani, and arab FMGs are not doing bad at all? i totally agree with the whole undesirable location and undesirable specialty statements you made. do you feel that it is unfair? i (just my personnal opinion) don't; being in america is a privilege and being a physician in america is a double-privilege so even if they end up family practitioners in small town nebraska or wyoming, it is still 100 times better than their situation in the countries of their origins. after all, that's why they come here. also, i did not intend to give the impression that it is easy for them to get into radiology or derm; but, like you implied, it happens...and frankly, even if it is an exceptional match, it's still a triple-privilege and a bit unfair for the poor american who spent a considerable amount of money for the education....

as far as chinese docs working as lab-techs, i know exactly what you mean by this. i worked for a major blood research facility and many of the lab-techs were chinese docs. and from working with them and hearing what PIs said about them, i can make a few negative remarks but i won't. let's put it this way: the best and brightest among chinese docs seem to be able to have a good chance working and/or specializing as docs in china or in the U.S, as opposed to doing bench science.