Non-ACGME Fellowships

[jstargirl17]

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Hey all! I’m a U.S. MD 4th year student who recently matched to a competitive top academic institution. As I’m looking at fellowship options post-residency via FM, I know that there are several ACGME accredited fellowships. I also know that there are MANY non-ACGME accredited fellowships (women’s health and reproductive health interest me right now). I was wondering will doing a non-ACGME fellowship allow me to work in a women’s health clinic/center? Could I tailor to future patients as a women’s health specialist/reproductive health specialist? Or FM-trained outpatient ONLY gynecologist? I understand that I’m not an OB/GYN (cannot do surgeries) but my goal is to provide comprehensive outpatient GYN/reproductive health care to girls and women of all ages

In addition, I was also wondering has anyone heard of the women’s heart health/cardiovascular diseases fellowship? I recently found out there there are several one-year non-ACGME accredited women’s cardiovascular diseases fellowships that are open to IM, FM, OB/GYN, and medpeds (top programs are Christ Hospital in Cincinnati, Cedars-Sinai in LA). How would this career be categorized (would it be non-invasive cardiologist and/or women’s heart disease specialist)? What about job opportunities would be available/accessible? I understand that it’s not the same as IM board-certified cardiologists but could I still work in women’s heart health clinic in a women’s center or an outpatient cardiology clinic?

 

[Sardonix]

I was wondering will doing a non-ACGME fellowship allow me to work in a women’s health clinic/center?

I mean, sure, but as I understand it so will residency. Just prove to them you have the experience and interest to do so. NP and PAs without any particular training do it all the time. In the mean time, consider the pay you will lose out on by doing said non-accredited fellowship and if that fellowship will in the long term be worth that loss, either financially, logistically, or emotionally.

Could I tailor to future patients as a women’s health specialist/reproductive health specialist?

Yes, you could tailor your practice to focus on women's health no problem. Ensure you get the experience you need on rotations during residency and establish close relations with your OBGYN attendings for extra learning and references to get into related jobs.

As a reproductive health specialist? That depends what you mean. If it comes to counseling men and women regarding reproductive health, sure. If it comes to IUI and IVF... absolutely not, like not a single chance. So I am just going to assume that is not what you mean.

Or FM-trained outpatient ONLY gynecologist? I understand that I’m not an OB/GYN (cannot do surgeries) but my goal is to provide comprehensive outpatient GYN/reproductive health care to girls and women of all ages

Sure. May take a couple years to build your panel and rep and may depend on location but go forth and conquer.

In addition, I was also wondering has anyone heard of the women’s heart health/cardiovascular diseases fellowship? ... How would this career be categorized

I would probably categorize it as taking advantage of FM physicians financially for a highly niche specialization that will do nothing for you outside of rural access areas.

Every city, including small cities and large towns, already have cardiologists. So if the goal is to practice in small town, by all means do so. But much like EM "fellowships" do not adequately train US FM physicians to be a comparable to EM trained physicians, I do not think such training will enable you to compete with actual cardiologists except for incredibly rural areas where there is no better option. When it comes to reading stress tests, echos, ABIs,... other cardiac diagnostics, why would I refer someone to FM for that if I have a cardiologist available? If the goal is to join a previous established cardiology practice as a PCP/generalist, then the "fellowship" would be pointless in my mind as you can already do that.

These "fellowships" are non-accredited for a reason. It's hard enough to get the detailed, nuanced answers you seek about actually reputable and accredited fellowships like addiction, sleep medicine etc on here as is. I'd be happy to be surprised, but I do not know of anyone on here who has gone through the routes you are discussing or has the insight you seek. That said, if you are incredibly passionate about the training it would provide and are realistic about your career goals, it's your money to burn if the math and motivation work for you.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Hey all! I’m a U.S. MD 4th year student who recently matched to a competitive top academic institution. As I’m looking at fellowship options post-residency via FM, I know that there are several ACGME accredited fellowships. I also know that there are MANY non-ACGME accredited fellowships (women’s health and reproductive health interest me right now). I was wondering will doing a non-ACGME fellowship allow me to work in a women’s health clinic/center? Could I tailor to future patients as a women’s health specialist/reproductive health specialist? Or FM-trained outpatient ONLY gynecologist? I understand that I’m not an OB/GYN (cannot do surgeries) but my goal is to provide comprehensive outpatient GYN/reproductive health care to girls and women of all ages

In addition, I was also wondering has anyone heard of the women’s heart health/cardiovascular diseases fellowship? I recently found out there there are several one-year non-ACGME accredited women’s cardiovascular diseases fellowships that are open to IM, FM, OB/GYN, and medpeds (top programs are Christ Hospital in Cincinnati, Cedars-Sinai in LA). How would this career be categorized (would it be non-invasive cardiologist and/or women’s heart disease specialist)? What about job opportunities would be available/accessible? I understand that it’s not the same as IM board-certified cardiologists but could I still work in women’s heart health clinic in a women’s center or an outpatient cardiology clinic?

This is one of those times that "can" and "should" need to be differentiated strongly.

Yes, as a medical doctor you CAN do pretty much whatever you want as long as your patients aren't being harmed.

But, what do you as an FM doing exclusively outpatient GYN have to offer that makes you better than an OB/GYN? Why should an OB/GYN office hire you over either a midlevel or an OB/GYN who doesn't want to delivery/operate anymore?

Your best bet is to find an FM office and become the women's health person there. Not doing only gynecology, but being the main person who does IUDs, Nexplanon, even pap's if some of the other doctors don't want to do them. You'll still likely need to do a fair bit of general FM as well though.

I was not previously aware of CV disease fellowships for FM. I can't imagine that would be enough to get a cardiology office to hire you. Similar to the above, why should a cardiology group hire you over either a cardiologist or a midlevel?

Also, why did you go for FM if you wanted to be an OB/GYN or a cardiologist?

 

[jstargirl17]

I did FM because I like women’s health and wanted to do comprehensive gynecological care without having to operate via GYN surg. I want to be able to do GYN procedures and work wirh women of all ages (peds/adolescents to menopause). I didn’t want to do OB/GYN due to lifestyle even though I strongly considered it. I’m very much interested in doing a women’s health fellowship or reproductive health fellowship
I dual applied FM and IM. Part of me wonders if I should’ve ranked IM programs higher since I thought about specializing in medical oncology (be a breast and GYN Onc specialist) or do GI.. but I matched FM so I’m just going to focus on being the best intern I can be and see what happens

There are FM doctors who do sports med and only see sports med patients (do you ask them why they didn’t do ortho)? There are FM doctors who only do urgent care and/or EM (you ask them why they didn’t do EM)? There are also OB/GYNs who do only outpatient gynecology

Women’s Health Fellowships

1. Non-OB
   1. Specialized Women’s Health Fellowship at Cleveland Clinic (2 years) —> most alumna are FM/IM and go to work at Cleveland Clinic’s women’s health clinic or at women’s health clinics at other academic institutions
   2. Case Western Reserve University Women’s Health Fellowship (1 year)
   3. University of Virginia Women’s Midlife Fellowship (1-2 years)
   4. Mayo Clinic (Florida) Women’s Health Fellowship (1 year)
   5. Mayo Clinic (Minnesota) General Internal Medicine Fellowship
   6. Mayo Clinic (Arizona) Women’s Health Fellowship (1 year)
   7. Women’s Veterans Healthcare Advanced Fellowship in Women’s Health (2 years)
2. Reproductive Health (ability to do procedural abortion care)
   1. University of Michigan Reproductive Health Fellowship (1 year)*
   2. University of Maryland Reproductive Health Fellowship*
   3. Johns Hopkins Academic Women’s Health Fellowship in General Internal Medicine (1 year, option 2nd research year)
   4. Cambridge Health Alliance Reproductive Health and Advocacy Fellowship (1 year)*
   5. Rutgers Health Reproductive Health Fellowship*
   6. University of Washington Reproductive Health & Advocacy Fellowship (1 year)*
   7. Allen Project Reproductive Health Care & Advocacy Fellowship*

 

[Sardonix]

There are FM doctors who do sports med and only see sports med patients (do you ask them why they didn’t do ortho)?

This was one of the first questions on interview day my program's sports med faculty ask fellowship applicants.

But again, it should be noted that sports medicine is an established and accredited fellowship pathway... even if the job market has been rough lately.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I did FM because I like women’s health and wanted to do comprehensive gynecological care without having to operate via GYN surg. I want to be able to do GYN procedures and work wirh women of all ages (peds/adolescents to menopause). I didn’t want to do OB/GYN due to lifestyle even though I strongly considered it. I’m very much interested in doing a women’s health fellowship or reproductive health fellowship
I dual applied FM and IM. Part of me wonders if I should’ve ranked IM programs higher since I thought about specializing in medical oncology (be a breast and GYN Onc specialist) or do GI.. but I matched FM so I’m just going to focus on being the best intern I can be and see what happens

There are FM doctors who do sports med and only see sports med patients (do you ask them why they didn’t do ortho)? There are FM doctors who only do urgent care and/or EM (you ask them why they didn’t do EM)? There are also OB/GYNs who do only outpatient gynecology

Women’s Health Fellowships

1. Non-OB
   1. Specialized Women’s Health Fellowship at Cleveland Clinic (2 years) —> most alumna are FM/IM and go to work at Cleveland Clinic’s women’s health clinic or at women’s health clinics at other academic institutions
   2. Case Western Reserve University Women’s Health Fellowship (1 year)
   3. University of Virginia Women’s Midlife Fellowship (1-2 years)
   4. Mayo Clinic (Florida) Women’s Health Fellowship (1 year)
   5. Mayo Clinic (Minnesota) General Internal Medicine Fellowship
   6. Mayo Clinic (Arizona) Women’s Health Fellowship (1 year)
   7. Women’s Veterans Healthcare Advanced Fellowship in Women’s Health (2 years)
2. Reproductive Health (ability to do procedural abortion care)
   1. University of Michigan Reproductive Health Fellowship (1 year)*
   2. University of Maryland Reproductive Health Fellowship*
   3. Johns Hopkins Academic Women’s Health Fellowship in General Internal Medicine (1 year, option 2nd research year)
   4. Cambridge Health Alliance Reproductive Health and Advocacy Fellowship (1 year)*
   5. Rutgers Health Reproductive Health Fellowship*
   6. University of Washington Reproductive Health & Advocacy Fellowship (1 year)*
   7. Allen Project Reproductive Health Care & Advocacy Fellowship*

Yes, I do question why someone went into FM if they know from the beginning that they want to work in the ED.

There isn't an already existing urgent care residency so not sure why that would be a problem.

If you know before even starting residency that you want to do sports med, I would be curious why you didn't do ortho as the poster above noted.

Why would I be bothered by OB/GYNs that do only outpatient gynecology?

Here's the thing, as I mentioned previously: why would someone hire an FP to do outpatient-only gyn over an OB/GYN or even a midlevel?