Non-compete Clauses

[LadyHalcyon]

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Wait, is this a contract you are signing with an IME company? Like PsyBar or something?

No. It's private practice.

 

[ClinicalABA]

... Therefore, I could potentially only get 4 cases my first year...

5 year, multi-state non-compete and it’s basically a contract/fee for service gig!?!? Seriously?

 

[ClinicalABA]

Many places will have a “you can’t work for anybody else while you work for us clause” and these are enforceable in the sense that they’ll they’ll fire your butt if you do. Working for this person with this crazy non-compete, very part time, might not be possible if you have a full time gig elsewhere.

 

[Sanman]

Actually, I don't think that is necessarily the case. It may be for employees that have worked there for a while, but it was made clear to me cases are assigned based on senority and niche areas. Therefore, I could potentially only get 4 cases my first year. But yes, I agree with your first statement.

The general business model I am thinking of goes something like this:

Sign many large referral contracts
Higher cheap labor that may or may not be qualified to do the work
Reap $$$ as a middle man
Protect referral contracts from labor using restrictive contracts
Bonus: ruin local economy in that area of the field.

I've seen this with IME, VA C&P evals, SNF/LTC facilities, etc.

Without a guaranteed number of referrals, why sign such a restrictive covenant? Can't work elsewhere in the state for ~$1000, no thanks.

 

[deleted760483]

I have a non compete with very specific wording about what is considered "competing" and it basically only restricts clinical activities with patients. I am currently teaching a class at one local university and serving as a research consultant at another, while occasionally doing paid presentations and writing a book. None of these are considered competing activities. I basically just can't do contract work for another hospital or PP.

 

[LadyHalcyon]

Yes. This noncompete is similar in that it only restricts certain clinical work. Right now I am trying to decide if I should attempt to negotiate and, if so, where I would draw the line. I think a year would be my max.

I have a non compete with very specific wording about what is considered "competing" and it basically only restricts clinical activities with patients. I am currently teaching a class at one local university and serving as a research consultant at another, while occasionally doing paid presentations and writing a book. None of these are considered competing activities. I basically just can't do contract work for another hospital or PP.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Yes. This noncompete is similar in that it only restricts certain clinical work. Right now I am trying to decide if I should attempt to negotiate and, if so, where I would draw the line. I think a year would be my max.

Honestly, from everything you’ve posted about this position, it seems not at all worth it.

 

[LadyHalcyon]

Yeah. That is what I was thinking, but then I figure what would it hurt? Although I am not sure the company is a good fit for me, ethically speaking. My dad says I should say I'll sign but only if they discard the noncompete--and that should be the only negotiating I do.

Honestly, from everything you’ve posted about this position, it seems not at all worth it.

 

[BuckeyeLove]

The general business model I am thinking of goes something like this:

Sign many large referral contracts
Higher cheap labor that may or may not be qualified to do the work
Reap $$$ as a middle man
Protect referral contracts from labor using restrictive contracts
Bonus: ruin local economy in that area of the field.

I've seen this with IME, VA C&P evals, SNF/LTC facilities, etc.

Without a guaranteed number of referrals, why sign such a restrictive covenant? Can't work elsewhere in the state for ~$1000, no thanks.

It's like...you somehow knew exactly what I saw on a day to day basis at my last PP. The middle man part especially. Making money hand over fist, thousands of evaluations going out for a variety of contracts in a year, all being completed by...postdocs. or ECP's. At worst, utilizing "psych assistants" to do majority of the work. Not to mention anyone with a semblance of ethics would bounce. I really am worried about all of the ECP's that I know get woo'd into working at this particular practice, as they don't seem to appreciate that by doing so, they can't work anywhere in the state for a year potentially (as the work agreement is very carefully crafted). for some reason it took me until passing my written boards to a. see the totality of the hot mess, and b. realize my overall worth/value.

 

[PsyDr]

These are the same *****s that get crappy offices, with crappy furniture, and then are surprised when they don't get high end patients.

There's much better ways to do business.

 

[Sanman]

These are the same *****s that get crappy offices, with crappy furniture, and then are surprised when they don't get high end patients.

There's much better ways to do business.

I agree that there is a much better way to do business. However, I disagree that they are *****s. The thing all these practices usually have in common is being the only option via a third party payor. When competition does come knocking via access to the payor source, they usually are in trouble. However, some can get so big that they control regional activity and lock in payor sources via crony capitalism.

 

[PsyDr]

I agree that there is a much better way to do business. However, I disagree that they are *****s. The thing all these practices usually have in common is being the only option via a third party payor. When competition does come knocking via access to the payor source, they usually are in trouble. However, some can get so big that they control regional activity.

Obviously, I disagree. Having a single revenue source is ridiculously risky. Estranging your employees only means they’ll be competitors if you lose that revenue stream.

 

[Sanman]

Obviously, I disagree. Having a single revenue source is ridiculously risky. Estranging your employees only means they’ll be competitors if you lose that revenue stream.

I completely agree with you regarding long-term stability of a company depending on those factors. However, one can make quick cash and move on. For example, several large geriatric behavioral health companies have been sold to private equity firms. Some, at least, treated employees poorly and were mismanaged. However, the owners got paid and got out.

 

[LadyHalcyon]

Well, I said I couldn't sign a noncompete and now they want to negotiate