Non-psych publications: helpful for residency?

[235750]

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Hi everyone,

I'm an incoming first-year med student with a real interest in psych. I'm older and have worked in a hospital for years so it's a fairly informed preference. As far as I'm concerned, psychiatry is one of the most rewarding branches of medicine for many reasons that I won't get into

Like all students, I want to avoid the scramble by any means possible, and since this whole match business is out of control competitive now, I wanted to ask a few questions in regard to my future residency application.

I have published four papers this year (not in JAMA, but decent journals), all as the second author (out of 2 authors total) and have presented research at a poster session at the american cancer meeting. My questions are:

(1) As my papers/research are all OB or cardiology related, will they make any difference to my apps in the years to come? Will this be seen as a plus or a minus, or maybe they (PDs) won't care?
(2) Because they are/will be published before medical school starts, do they get discounted or otherwise ignored?

I don't care about matching at a 'top program' or any of that nonsense. I'm just hoping for somewhere near or in Philadelphia, maybe Drexel?

Thanks!

 

[Hurricane]

Any publications are helpful for residency and you already have more than most 🙂

 

[Faebinder]

Absolutely helpful.

 

[masterofmonkeys]

Everyone talked about my non-psych research on the interview trail.

I think it's helpful for anyone because its yet another way to demonstrate hard work.

For people going into research, I think it helps even more because you show that you understand 'what it takes' so to speak to do research. Even if it isn't related to psych, research is research. Writing a research paper, doing lit searches, understanding study design, grants, and the peer review process, is pretty darn helpful.

And even though the match has gotten more competitive, I don't think you're all that more likely to scramble now than you were in the past.

 

[235750]

Everyone talked about my non-psych research on the interview trail.

I think it's helpful for anyone because its yet another way to demonstrate hard work.

And even though the match has gotten more competitive, I don't think you're all that more likely to scramble now than you were in the past.

Thanks for everyone's comments. They are very helpful. I'm glad to hear all this work will pay off.

Again, my publications are happening before medical school, so I just want to make sure that they are still relevant. So, when you say it demonstrates hard work, does it matter that it's my full time job right now and not an EC activity in addition to med school?

Also, I'm glad to hear you think that the scramble isn't any more common now than it was before...because at the end of the day, whilst I love psychiatry, I would be happy with FM as long as there was no scramble involved

Thanks again!

 

[worriedwell]

I think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself here. But to answer your question, all publications help the resume. No way do they hurt you.

Second, you should focus on medical school and work hard (and do what it is you like to do, which if psychiatry related research, then great, if clinical or extracurricular work, great too). Your just starting school, there is a long road ahead.

Matching into psychiatry is not that hard from a US medical school without any red flags on your application. Successful research is NOT a red flag, its a bright green flag.

Its not complex...do your best in medical school, be a team player, get to know a few faculty members who will write you good letters, show special interest in your area of future study in some way, and thats that.

Everything else is just interesting conversation for the interview to help understand you as a person. Its all gravy. And remember, lots of people change their mind in terms of fields of interest while in medical school, so stay well rounded as well. Some people are so sure about their interest in surgery and then become psychiatrists and vice versa, so be humble and open minded about that. The emotional experience once you are there trumps what you thought were prior rational thoughts prior to that. I've seen it many times.


Best,
worriedwell

 

[whopper]

A non psyche publication is very respectable, in fact can be helpful in some ways because its demonstrates knowledge outside of the field.

I can remember several times having a cold sweat while injecting a medically unstable person full of an antipsychotic. Believe me, cardiology knowledge does become important in psychiatry, especially on the medical floor.

It also demonstrates a good foundation in research period--psychiatry or not.

Being published before medschool is even more of a plus & more impressive IMHO. You're at a headstart vs the competition.

 

[235750]

Being published before medschool is even more of a plus & more impressive IMHO. You're at a headstart vs the competition.

Thank you for your all your responses. I really appreciate it!

Also, thanks to worriedwell and whopper. I see your point about all aspects of medicine being helpful in a career in psych. May I add: just because I know how to write the computer code to perform multivariate logistic regression and apply it to Premature Ventricular Contraction (PVC) to predict CHF doesn't mean I know anything about cardiology! I'm a number cruncher, but don't tell the PDs that 😉

Also, I do not intend to do ANY research whilst in medical school. None. I'm of average intelligence so I'll have to work hard to be competetive grade/board score wise. I hope that won't effect my application..do you think it will? Like, I had a background in research and then I stopped it when the going went rough? Is that bad?

Its not complex...do your best in medical school, be a team player, get to know a few faculty members who will write you good letters, show special interest in your area of future study in some way, and thats that.

The thing is worriedwell, I work at a respected MD medical school and I saw people scramble who are far more intelligent than me. Maybe they screwed up the steps you laid out, or maybe things are more competitive nowadays than you realize. I don't know what lead them to the scramble, but what I do know is that I would rather face a pack of rabid monkeys then spend days faxing my CV to PDs across the country hoping that I haven't spent the last 4 years for nothing.

Also, to worriedwell, I forgot to mention: I'll be a DO student so that does make things more competitive for me. I know there aren't any AOA positions for psych according to the AOA website, so I'll be competing for ACGME spots (I really think it's ridiculous that DOs don't have more residency spots, it's not fair to you MDs, but that's another story 🙂 ). My hope is that these publications will make up for what I see as the biggest deficit in DO training: a lack of research opportunities. And of course I plan to take the USMLE step one in addition to the COMLEX, but not the step 2 as I've heard that's overkill.

Anyway, now that I gave you all this information, does anything change?

Cheers!

 

[worriedwell]

Perhaps I'm being insensitive to your concerns but part of me thinks you are over anxious about this:

I am surprised you knew a lot of people that were scrambling, but I would be flabbergasted if you knew a lot of people scrambling into psychiatry...maybe it is a lot more competitive then. A lot of people scramble after trying for surgical or derm or radiology residencies. I think far less people without any red flags scramble into psychiatry, fp, internal medicine, pediatrics.

I must admit to not having any knowledge of DO schools vs MD schools and how many programs accept DOs etc.

When I say do well in medical school, all I really mean is be a team player. The first two years matter very little, but you want to do everything you can to pass without retaking classes; the boards are not essential but can be helpful to do well in.

The most important thing is that you show that you can be genuinely caring to psychiatric patients and that you are easy to be around and conscientious. The top tier programs are competitive but many of the community psychiatry programs just want someone who is stable and consistent and smart enough to not do something dangerous and will be pleasant to work with. My understanding was that many programs still fill with FMGs but they would prefer American trained doctors, which implies (nothing against FMGs, as some of the brilliant doctors I know are FMGs) to me that if you are a basically competent DO trained doctor without any major concerns on your application, you'll match somewhere fine.

If there is a particular place you are interested in matching, do an away rotation there and get to know people. But again, you are so early in the process, you should just focus on learning the basic medical language and material for the next 2 years, the rest will come later on. Whether of average or high intelligence, everybody works very hard in medical school, and some surprise themselves with their performance.

One step at a time, there is no use in worrying about things too far down the road, just handle what is in front of you step by step.

 

[Indryd]

Is this "red flags" code for anything? Like are there specific red flags that one might need to worry about? Or are you guys just using this term to generally describe a "not horrible" applicant?

 

[BobA]

Is this "red flags" code for anything? Like are there specific red flags that one might need to worry about? Or are you guys just using this term to generally describe a "not horrible" applicant?

As far as I can tell the biggest red flags are known history of substance abuse, failing Step 1 or 2, really bad comments in your MSPE, maybe failing/needing to repeat a year of medical school. I imagine that a lot will depend on the specifics of the candidate and the specifics of the "red flag."

But in psych, a USAMG with any of these "red flags" can probably match (several residents at my home program definitely have "red flags"). Granted, it's not the most competitive psych residency.

 

[worriedwell]

Red flags are things that everybody knows are red flags...the items mentioned above sum up major red flags reasonably well. No code...but failing things and having bad things written in your final deans letter (as opposed to neutral are semi positive things) are the main things. And major psychiatric or substance abuse problems that disrupt training are also red flags even in a tolerant field like psychiatry. Not deal breakers neccessarily but they hurt.

 

[235750]

I am surprised you knew a lot of people that were scrambling, but I would be flabbergasted if you knew a lot of people scrambling into psychiatry

You are right Sir, I do not know if they scrambled with psychiatry as their main choice. I'm sure it was derm or ortho or something like that. Also, in terms of scrambling, I did know a fair amount of people who scrambled. I can't give you a precise number, but I can tell you it's a lot more than it used to be, and I can also tell you that two people who put psyc in their top three got their second or third choice. So I still think things are more competetive than you think. However, you are probably correct that I am too anxious. I think watching those students scramble effected me more than I care to admit!

I have no red flags (yet!) like drug abuse or any sort of criminal record.

When I say do well in medical school, all I really mean is be a team player. The first two years matter very little, but you want to do everything you can to pass without retaking classes; the boards are not essential but can be helpful to do well in.

One step at a time, there is no use in worrying about things too far down the road, just handle what is in front of you step by step.

I shall take your advice to heart. Thank you for taking the time to post

 

[tobi44]

Hi everyone,

I'm an incoming first-year med student with a real interest in psych. I'm older and have worked in a hospital for years so it's a fairly informed preference. As far as I'm concerned, psychiatry is one of the most rewarding branches of medicine for many reasons that I won't get into

Like all students, I want to avoid the scramble by any means possible, and since this whole match business is out of control competitive now, I wanted to ask a few questions in regard to my future residency application.

I have published four papers this year (not in JAMA, but decent journals), all as the second author (out of 2 authors total) and have presented research at a poster session at the american cancer meeting. My questions are:

(1) As my papers/research are all OB or cardiology related, will they make any difference to my apps in the years to come? Will this be seen as a plus or a minus, or maybe they (PDs) won't care?
(2) Because they are/will be published before medical school starts, do they get discounted or otherwise ignored?

I don't care about matching at a 'top program' or any of that nonsense. I'm just hoping for somewhere near or in Philadelphia, maybe Drexel?

Thanks!

Bumping this thread for a quick question. I heard about a respected publication in a different specialty taking submissions from medical students of articles that pretty much follow a template format on different disease topics. Its part of a data base that they are building and even though the submissions don't involve any original research they count as publications.

I'm a MSIII interested in psych. Do you think these are worth doing as a med student. Essentially just to boost my publication number, which is none at this point.

 

[splik]

no

 

[JamesPhilly]

It sounds similar to a 'review' article that you often see

If it didn't require a giant heap of time, I would consider it. Obviously your step 2 would be much more important, but this sounds like something you could do on your own time at home, maybe put in a couple of hours a week. It can't hurt right?

Good luck

 

[tobi44]

no

could you expand on why its not helpful? Could you clarify why JamesPhilly might think its useful?