Non-psychology student interested in psych PhD; have some concerns

[tspike]

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Hi all,

I am currently a software engineer with a BA in Linguistics and an MS in Computer Science. Over the past few years, my interest in psychology has grown steadily. Through close interactions with and observing the treatment of a sufferer of severe obsessive-compulsive disorder, I have become quite interested in anxiety treatment. I used the last semester of my Computer Science MS to take cross-listed cognitive science courses as an opportunity to pursue this interest. I also attended the major national conference on OCD.

The thought of using my training in CS to the end of better diagnosis, analysis, and treatment is intriguing. I have a fairly extensive background in implementing statistical learning systems and the thought of transforming my career into that of a scientist/practitioner/entrepreneur/educator is appealing to me. I believe that having access to a research program and to sufferers would be immensely valuable in developing and deploying the next generation of psychological treatment tools. I got a great deal of satisfaction out of watching the recovery of my friend, and along the way had a number of ideas regarding how the process could be improved.

All of that is well and good, but I'd be lying if I said the thought of abandoning a lucrative, flexible career wasn't intimidating. I would need to take at least two full semesters of prerequisite courses, study for and take the GRE, complete the application cycle, and of course, complete graduate school for any of this to be possible.

That entails the better part of a decade of commitment, and I'm concerned. To those of you who have done something similar or who have relevant experience, what jumps out at you? I'm well acquainted with the typical advice on whether or not to apply to grad school, but I believe my situation is unique in several ways and I am curious to hear others' takes on it.

Cheers,
Tres

 

[Xararsis]

Hi all,

I am currently a software engineer with a BA in Linguistics and an MS in Computer Science. Over the past few years, my interest in psychology has grown steadily. Through close interactions with and observing the treatment of a sufferer of severe obsessive-compulsive disorder, I have become quite interested in anxiety treatment. I used the last semester of my Computer Science MS to take cross-listed cognitive science courses as an opportunity to pursue this interest. I also attended the major national conference on OCD.

The thought of using my training in CS to the end of better diagnosis, analysis, and treatment is intriguing. I have a fairly extensive background in implementing statistical learning systems and the thought of transforming my career into that of a scientist/practitioner/entrepreneur/educator is appealing to me. I believe that having access to a research program and to sufferers would be immensely valuable in developing and deploying the next generation of psychological treatment tools. I got a great deal of satisfaction out of watching the recovery of my friend, and along the way had a number of ideas regarding how the process could be improved.

All of that is well and good, but I'd be lying if I said the thought of abandoning a lucrative, flexible career wasn't intimidating. I would need to take at least two full semesters of prerequisite courses, study for and take the GRE, complete the application cycle, and of course, complete graduate school for any of this to be possible.

That entails the better part of a decade of commitment, and I'm concerned. To those of you who have done something similar or who have relevant experience, what jumps out at you? I'm well acquainted with the typical advice on whether or not to apply to grad school, but I believe my situation is unique in several ways and I am curious to hear others' takes on it.

Cheers,
Tres

This is something I can help you out with as I am in a (sort of) similar boat. I am currently in a marketing phd program and have decided that for me it is worthwhile to at least apply to psych phd programs and get closer to my genuine interests. However, your situation might be different.

I think one additional piece of information that might be useful for me and any other people wanting to chime in is what specifically interests you about the prospect of applying to psych programs. Is it the ability to ask research questions that are more directly interesting to you? Is it to obtain the tools necessary to work with others in a more direct therapeutic setting? Is it the potential to have a more lasting impact on others? Elaborating on this would be helpful.

If it has to do with having a more direct impact on others or working more closely with others, I think I might be able to help you. One thing I can say that probably isn't considered "typical" advice is to volunteer at a crisis hotline and see what you get out of the experience. This is something I have done since joining my marketing phd program and I find it very fulfilling. It has also let me know that I have the potential to become a competent therapist with further education and training. For some people. doing something small like this every week (for me it's 3.5 hrs) might be enough to "supplement" this other interest of yours.

While this is one possibility of many, perhaps the best way to think about this is not in black and white (i.e. cs vs psych) terms but rather in a way that lets you integrate both of them simultaneously.

 

[tspike]

Thanks very much for your reply.

I think one additional piece of information that might be useful for me and any other people wanting to chime in is what specifically interests you about the prospect of applying to psych programs. Is it the ability to ask research questions that are more directly interesting to you? Is it to obtain the tools necessary to work with others in a more direct therapeutic setting? Is it the potential to have a more lasting impact on others? Elaborating on this would be helpful.

I would have to say that it is the combination of those things itself that is appealing to me. I tend to be happiest when I can keep both my mind and my soul interested. Helping people alone is not a sufficient motivator; my brain gets bored. Being intellectually stimulated isn't sufficient; my soul feels dead. I also greatly value autonomy. The idea of being able to "put on different hats" between being an emotional and therapeutic supporter, businessman, teacher/professor, and/or technical director for a career draws me.

The crisis hotline idea is intriguing. I do from time to time volunteer my time to online depression forums, but a telephone setting might prove more insightful.

Fundamentally, I think I want some kind of reassurance that the life I'm envisioning is even possible and not end up disillusioned many years into an educational program. I know that total confidence in that respect is impossible, but firsthand experience from others who have done similar things is very valuable. I think your advice to consider it less of an either/or proposition (what a CS thing for me to do! =) and more of a fusion of interests is wise.

 

[Ollie123]

You don't mention your specific skills within computer science, but have you considered options that might allow you to utilize your skills as part of a clinical research team?

I can't say I'm terribly familiar with the job market, but academic hospitals and large, multidisciplinary research centers might have need of someone with your background. Advances in computing have resulted in a greater need for expertise in this area, and psychology has simultaneously become a more technical field. This seems to be primarily within cognitive domains (neural network models, etc.) as of right now. However, it is beginning to venture into more applied science and there may be opportunities out there in computational neuroscience, etc.

I'm not trying to dissuade you from pursuing a PhD in psychology by any stretch of the imagination, but this may let you get more fulfillment from your degree without a complete change of careers. Alternatively, if you can find a job and work for awhile in that field, some time in it might help solidify your decision to pursue additional education in a clinical field. I suspect it is probably a tough field to "break into" just due to it being very highly specialized right now, but there may be opportunities out there to get involved. Depending on your flexibility on where you live, what you do, salary expectations, etc. you might be able to get your foot in the door somewhere and go from there.

 

[docma]

I agree that you probably do not need to complete all the steps through a psychology PhD in order to find a way into work in this area of interest, especially if you are skilled in working on a team. What you do need to do is find clinicians/researchers who are working in this area and start learning what and how they work together and who is on their team. It is probably possible, legal/ethical and more practical to join an existing team in a role where you might lead research, teach/consult/write analyses (or software). It is definitely possible to have a role that is instrumental in treatment protocols and social science without going through the traditional gateway of a doctorate in clinical psychology and licensure. Given you already have specific skills and interests it would be worth investigating these alternatives first before getting in the long line of frustrated traditional grads seeking a Ph.D program and internship

 

[Psychology 76]

You don't mention your specific skills within computer science, but have you considered options that might allow you to utilize your skills as part of a clinical research team?

I can't say I'm terribly familiar with the job market, but academic hospitals and large, multidisciplinary research centers might have need of someone with your background. Advances in computing have resulted in a greater need for expertise in this area, and psychology has simultaneously become a more technical field. This seems to be primarily within cognitive domains (neural network models, etc.) as of right now. However, it is beginning to venture into more applied science and there may be opportunities out there in computational neuroscience, etc.

I'm not trying to dissuade you from pursuing a PhD in psychology by any stretch of the imagination, but this may let you get more fulfillment from your degree without a complete change of careers. Alternatively, if you can find a job and work for awhile in that field, some time in it might help solidify your decision to pursue additional education in a clinical field. I suspect it is probably a tough field to "break into" just due to it being very highly specialized right now, but there may be opportunities out there to get involved. Depending on your flexibility on where you live, what you do, salary expectations, etc. you might be able to get your foot in the door somewhere and go from there.

I would totally agree with this. In the labs I've worked in any computer science knowledge is incredibly valuable. If clinical research is something that interests you I think it could be a good fit without going too far away from your training.

 

[roubs]

It seems one key aspect of your potential decision to switch careers involves seeing the success of your friend's OCD treatment. I'd think about how you would react to clients who are refractory to treatment, skip sessions or otherwise do not improve. My cohort and I have recently started our first clinical practicum and several students frustration levels soar. Many of us also have inflated expectations of how much progress we can achieve and how quickly we can achieve it. Not to rain on your parade but it's worth it to think about these kinds of frustrations and how you would feel about them. Perhaps you could limit this by being on a research team as you described.

 

[lizzo76]

Are you interested in a Clinical Psychology PhD program? I don't want to dissuade you, but Clinical Psychology PhD programs are, overall, more difficult to get into than medical school. Some accept around 2% of applicants. As someone who majored in psychology at a good school, TA-ed, worked with a prof for a year while doing an independent study, volunteered in a psych ward while in school, etc., but have been working out of the field for 11 years, I don't expect I could get into a PhD program in this field without, maybe, first pursuing a terminal masters to beef up my research and get new relevant letters of recommendation. I'm not trying to be really discouraging, but I'm just not sure if you realize how competitive these programs are. Would you consider a masters in a related field? Or, as others have suggested, use your skills in some way which does not require pursuing an advanced degree?