Non-Trad Advice because mid-twenties is confusing

[BlackLotus95]

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Hello! So I am a 24 year old recently accepted into a postbacc that has two tracks to choose from. I think my interviewer was really trying to sell me on the 2 year track but they also have a 1 year track. I’m allowed to choose when I enroll. But I’m currently struggling with the choice and getting what I can from the program. I initially wanted to do 1 year but now I’m not so sure.

So first a bit of background. I’m married to an active duty marine. He will be with me here for 3 years then likely head out (we’ve lived separate before, we know the drill). I got a BA in Psych from Penn State and I’m currently changing careers. I have a 3.42 cGPA and a 3.8sGPA (I really fell in love with science, who would’ve guessed? Not I.) I don’t have prerequisites done and lack volunteer hours. I have a lot of clinical experience from working a year directly under a psychiatrist as an assistant to a physician and I currently work overnight part time as an MHT. I have LORs from my program head at PSU, the MD I worked for, and the PhD who also was my administrator. No research experience sadly, very little volunteer hours too. I have Crohn’s disease and it hit me pretty hard at one point.

In the 1 year track, you don’t really have time to get more shadow hours or volunteer necessarily. And I will have to quit my job. But I won’t be so old when I graduate med school and get out of residency. Plus less interest building on my loans. And I’ll presumably be in med school by the time my husband has to leave. 2 year let’s me bulk up my app more and get more MCAT prep time (included in tuition with the program). The program offers a lot of avenues to get shadowing, volunteer, and research hours.

My goal at the end is to get linkage to their med school and to get the most I can out of the program. Ultimately I can also go back to home to Texas as well to try TMDSAS. So anyone else ever in this boat? What would be a good plan? Truthfully no one in my life gets how med school entrance works so I really have no one to talk to personally. Thanks in advance and any advice is appreciated. Sorry this is so long!


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[Rachapkis]

Life is a long, long term venture. I think that you will find that an extra year spent in your twenties, if that's what you choose, will be immaterial in the grand scheme of things. Moreover, the key to becoming a doctor is to make sure that you do things well, not fast. Good luck and enjoy the journey.

 

[candbgirl]

Do you want to get into med school ? If so do what you have to and take as long as needed. You only want to apply once so take your time and do it right. What’s a year. If you apply without a strong application you might have to reapply.

 

[BlackLotus95]

Very true. I shouldn’t let my age bother me half as much as it does. I think you guys are right. A lot of my family is pushing for me to go faster, but I don’t think they get it. Thanks for the advice.


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[Select All That Apply]

@BlackLotus95 Formalized post-bacs are do or die arrangements. They are normally frowned upon on this site if you can use the resources to do a DIY post-bac. In a DIY post-bac you are taking classes at an undergraduate level with many other unspecialized pre-meds. In this manner, your grades in your classes are privy to the same forces that you would normally expect from undergrad such as a curve, guided settings, formalized lab, etc. However, in many of these formalized post-bacs you will be taking classes with far more focused individuals who are putting a lot of things on the line in order to get linkage into the medical school program.

With the increased difficulty of getting into medical school, it should be noted that difficulties with respect to post-bacs can and will vary heavily. The two major benefits to doing a formalized post-bac is that a. you get the schedule that you need to demonstrate competency and b. the programs usually have a linkage promise if you are able to perform and earn a certain GPA in the program. The downsides to doing a formalized post-bac is that a. they are difficult (see a previous thread lower than this about someone having difficulty in their program), b. they can be designed to weed out students (what is the internal attrition rating of the program), and c. they don't consider whether an applicant can finish the post-bac or find linkage into their actual program.

Due to these programs being "special" it should be noted that many students who go in expecting what they know of studying/adapting/performing from undergrad are thrown into a much different arrangement than they originally conceived. However, the added expectations are often because the program denotes itself as being such... "special" and therefore many of the rules that you would normally expect may not always hold true. You can't necessarily withdraw from classes in a formalized post-bac like you can in a DIY post-bac. And you are under added scrutiny and tight schedule controls which are designed to test you under pressure. Often there is a certain type of student that schools are attempting to select through these feeder programs and if you are one or two standard deviations off from these expectations, the issues are exacerbated due to the design of the program and force many students into many situations where they either overcome them or they bomb out.

 

[jamaica jan sun princess]

I tried to do a 1 year diy postbacc Summer 2018 through Spring 2019. I was able to complete two each of biology, chemistry, organic chemistry, and physics plus one semester of biochemistry with As. I was also able to get a good amount of volunteer experience, but not enough. Taking 12-16 hours of science with labs didn't leave much time for MCAT studying either. I wish I'd planned for two years from the start but I've managed to find a good extra gap year resume booster that leaves time for volunteering and MCAT studying.

 

[Rachapkis]

1) Your are only 24. I have worked with hundreds of students in their 30s, 40s, and even 50s, who successfully apply and complete medical school. (See my several examples below)

2) I advise against taking 1 year program as it leave you no time for volunteering, no time for MCAT prep, no time for application prep. Do 2 years.

************
In August NPR had a story about a former auto mechanic who graduated medical school at age 47 (yes, forty-seven)


The former Chair of the Board of Trustees for the AMA, Rebecca Patchin MD, was a nurse for 10 years and did not start medical school until 35 years of age
The former president of the AOA and current Dean of the Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine, Karen Nichols, DO, was a lab tech and didnt start medical school until she was about 30.
The first female African American Dean of any US MD or DO school , Barbara Lee-Ross, was a teacher and single mother when she was accepted to the founding class of the Michigan DO school at age 30, She is also Diana Ross's sister

I have worked with hundreds of students in their 30s, 40s, and even 50s, who successfully apply and complete medical school

I really enjoyed the NPR program about the auto mechanic who became a doctor in his 40s. I also enjoyed hearing about the professor who inspired him. Thanks for sharing!

 

[BlackLotus95]

Thanks for sharing! As for DIY postbac, I live in an area with so many postbac options many colleges are hesitant to take you on I’ve found as non-degree seeking. They really want to just do a postbac program and if you’re not, why? There’s so many around. The program I’ve chosen seems to really care about their students. I interviewed at others that did seem very “weed out” and they let you sink or swim without resources. Plus the program is younger so they definitely want you to succeed.

And I appreciate the program! I know my family is pushing me to get things going, but they truly don’t understand the process. My father had a career going at 23 and felt I should too and not “waste” my time as they feel my brother has. But I really liked that interview and gave me a great perspective. I think I will do the 2 year and have a stronger application. A year in my 20s won’t matter when I’m in my 60s/70s and getting ready to retire looking back at what I’ve accomplished.


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[Med Ed]

I think I will do the 2 year and have a stronger application. A year in my 20s won’t matter when I’m in my 60s/70s and getting ready to retire looking back at what I’ve accomplished.

Good call. Applying to medical school sucks. Do it right, do it once.

 

[Bonne Nuit]

Thanks for sharing! As for DIY postbac, I live in an area with so many postbac options many colleges are hesitant to take you on I’ve found as non-degree seeking.

I did a DIY post bac and I strongly recommend going at it as a degree seeking student. You get access to federal loans and priority registration when you declare a major - in fact, I’d say it’s really difficult to do a DIY post bac if you remain non-degree seeking. It’s not like you’re forced to actually finish the degree. I just stopped enrolling once I had my prereqs out of the way. Just offering that alternative to a formal post bac.

Anyway, I’m in my mid-30s and just applying this cycle. You have plenty of time, so you need to do this at a pace that sets you up for the greatest chance of success. This is a marathon you’ve entered, not a sprint.

 

[BlackLotus95]

Do you have to take any unnecessary classes? I personally just don’t want to waste time taking a class I don’t need to considering I already have a BA full of classes I didn’t always care for. And how does that effect your ability to schedule things out? I know to get federal loans, you need to be full time which can be hard to make a schedule fitting for a year or 2 if they try to do some of the superfluous things my university put in each academic year.


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[Bonne Nuit]

Do you have to take any unnecessary classes? I personally just don’t want to waste time taking a class I don’t need to considering I already have a BA full of classes I didn’t always care for. And how does that effect your ability to schedule things out? I know to get federal loans, you need to be full time which can be hard to make a schedule fitting for a year or 2 if they try to do some of the superfluous things my university put in each academic year.


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I didn’t have to take any unnecessary classes. My previous bachelor’s degree (also in psychology, btw) fulfilled all the general education requirements for my post bac school, so all those were out of the way. I just showed up on the first day of fall semester having enrolled in calculus I, gen chem I, and biology I and proceeded from there.

You’ll need to check with someone in admissions or advising to be certain, but I had no trouble taking the classes (and only the classes) that I wanted/needed. I also saved a ton of money compared to what I would have spent on a formal post bac program.

It was not at all difficult for me to carry a full course load every term. The only way I could see this being hard is if you’re going to a tiny school where the core science prerequisites aren’t offered every term (e.g. some very small schools might offer biochem in alternating years). I went to a medium-sized state school and I had no issues.

 

[tuowl15]

I was in the exact same boat as you! I was 24 and the post bacc admissions gave me the option of doing 1 or 2 year. Going off the fact that you went to PSU and could possibly be from PA, there’s a small chance we’re talking about the same program if you want to PM me.

Anyways, I really thought I wanted to do the one year and the advisors pushed for the two year primarily due to my lack of volunteering, but gave me the option nonetheless. The thought of pushing things down the road an extra year felt unnecessary. I talked to a current student who had the choice as well and chose the 2 year. It sounded very daunting and almost overwhelming, but I am so thankful I went with the two year. I worked part time throughout the whole thing (20-25 hours/week) and still had time to study. I landed a pretty sweet research fellowship over the summer that I think solidified my app. I had extra time to prep for the mcat which was a godsend.

I think the most important aspect was the extra time volunteering. I started volunteering right after I interviewed (about 6 months prior to matriculating). By the time I applied this application cycle, I had 2.5 years of volunteering with the same organization. I only volunteered with one organization the entire time but I think schools really liked seeing the commitment. It didn’t look like I was doing it to check a box and it genuinely helped reinforce my decision to pursue medicine and has been a great talking point on interviews. Hope this helps!

 

[Select All That Apply]

@BlackLotus95 There's a subforum for post-bac programs where people sometimes air what they like and what they don't like about their programs. Anecdotal stories are always going to be n=1 in terms of effectiveness, but having that type of insight can be useful when choosing between programs. Especially if you are in an area that's saturated with post-bac programs. Perhaps what is more useful would be asking for matriculation data. Specifically, I know programs like RVUCOM when I was looking at it a couple of years ago would post what % of their SMP students ended up matriculating into the DO school and how many other students ended up choosing to defer out or applying elsewhere. I think that data like this is more important in conveying the nature of the post-bac than a gut feeling you have from orientation.

Another aspect that's incalculable is knowing whether or not you will succeed in a dedicated post-bac. It's similar to when QB high school prospects are selected to play in college ball or college athletes are drafted into the NFL. There are many talented players in high school who don't have the field of vision or are used to adopting a call system they are not familiar with when it comes to transitioning into the college environment. Similarly, many promising QB college students can't hack the NFL or fall prey to injuries sooner rather than later causing them to have an incredibly short career. When it comes to performing in a high stakes environment, there are no guarantees that the student (as promising as they are) will be able to cope with the amount of credits and the material thrown at the student. I have been having the impression that as schools grow out their feeder programs (post-bac & SMP programs) that they have less of a connection with each individual student as they bring in more and more revenue/students from supplemental programs. Each student lost has an incredibly negative connotation, but I don't think any school is failing to fill in available seats. These certainly aren't law schools.

For these reasons, the onus is on students to be more prepared for getting into situations where they feel like they are being thrown under the bus and still be able to perform under such conditions. There is only so much trust students should be putting in their institution to faithfully carry them across the finish line, it is more likely that schools plague students with "professionalism & integrity" classes and "wellness lectures" preceding major exams that pose more hurdles for them to overcome when they really need to perform. That's why I tend to recommend conservative options to people who aren't aware of what it is like to be flooded with gross anatomy, physio, microbio, and biochem at the same time. Because the experience is not the same for all students and if you find yourself struggling, then it is often too late to learn how to perform.

 

[caterwaiter]

I did a 2 year career-changer post-bac program and found that I enjoyed (and needed) the time to adjust to a rigorous science study schedule, volunteer, work (a little too much, but besides the point), and nurture relationships. Highly recommend. I'm also in my mid 20's and am finding the older-than-average pressures to be tiring, but I genuinely believe our life experiences are infinitely valuable. Feel free to PM me if you want to chat more!

 

[ReturnToMed]

I did DIY at my local uni. DIY imo is good if you can do because like someone else said before you are with undergrads who are in general less focused so you have a better chance at getting higher grades.

I had a friend do Penn's post-bac. Based upon our conversations, I don't think he really benefitted from it. He applied twice and ended up goin DO his 2nd cycle. I would advise against Penn's program.