Non-traditional applicant questions, and seeking opinions

[Paralegalities]

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Hey everyone,

I've lurked here on and off for awhile, and was wondering what your thoughts on this would be. I'm currently 22 and am graduating from college with a non-science bachelors degree this semester. My mother is a DPT/PhD and is a professor for a medical school, so I was always around the medical field growing up, and have always been interested in it. However, I didn't think I was good enough originally to follow a pre-med type path, and since I also like law I've been following the pre-law path instead. As part of that, I currently work full-time as a paralegal for a social security disability law firm, and that experience combined with already finishing a degree and seeing my own capabilities are greater than I thought has made me question my path.

Due to the nature of disability law, my job consists almost entirely of dealing with every possible detail of very sick, dying, and mentally ill clients' medical conditions as well as nonstop communication with physicians, analyzing decades worth of medical records etc. and to be perfectly honest, I'm appalled by how subpar our clients' treatment is and how horribly they're treated by the medical community just because they're poor (real example from today, a client went into surgery and specifically told the surgeon many times to be careful with his neck because it was very sensitive, lo and behold the surgeon ignored him, propped his neck in a weird position for hours during surgery to spend less time on it since he wasn't getting paid much, and now the client is in far worse pain than what the surgery fixed and hasn't been able to move his neck at all for weeks, probably with permanent damage). As a result of seeing these things, and the extreme suffering these people go through, I've been swinging back towards a medical career instead of one in law to do what I can to provide good quality treatment and ease some of the suffering I see daily.

My dilemma is that since I have a non-science degree (although have taken a couple pre-req classes along the way and have done well) and now work full time (10 hours a day), I would only be able to take one class plus lab per semester at night, and it would take about 4 years of taking classes and MCAT studying, volunteering etc. to meet the requirements. I know the rigor of the class load is considered by admissions committees, and am kind of concerned they would just laugh at only taking one class at a time for years compared to full-time students taking 5+ classes at a time. Is taking one class at a time ok?

There's also no possible way I could do research. While my university has tons of research opportunities available, they refuse to accept volunteers, only for-credit students, and they require people to do it during business hours when I'd be at work. Will that be a problem for admissions committees?

Would my 5ish years by application time as a disability paralegal be seen as any kind of benefit, considering I work far more with the medical community than the law one?

In your opinion, are my reasons for wanting to pursue a medical career good enough? It seems like most pre-meds I know have these elaborate stories of dreaming of being a doctor for their entire life etc. and I kind of feel like mine doesn't match up with that.

Are my stats decent enough? 3.85 overall GPA, 3.75 science GPA, vice president and treasurer of two academic related college clubs, employed as a full time paralegal who manages four legal interns per semester.

Any thoughts or advice are appreciated, and sorry this post ended up so long haha.

 

[clinicallabguy]

Perhaps one of the adcoms can comment specifically on the 1 course per semester situation. But it seems to me that it could very possibly be a liability, as well as unnecessarily prolonging the process. Right now it seems like you are understandably being cautious about risking your current position to pursue something that isn't a guarantee. So you need to do some soul searching and determine how determined you are to pursue medical school. Your full-time paralegal job is going to take up precious time that would need to be utilized with prerequisite courses, studying for the MCAT, pursuing research, participating in clinical experiences, volunteer time, etc.

Why do you want to keep your paralegal job the whole time you are studying? Can you find a job that also gives you some clinical experience? Do you need a full-time job for some reason? Or can you live on a part-time income to free up some study time and extracurricular activity time? You can certainly keep your paralegal job while you formulate a plan and a way forward. But I would suggest that if you really commit to medicine, then you should start to gravitate to positions that will help you move your career forward, like clinical positions or paid research positions or something like that.

I was a non-traditional student in undergrad. I was married and had 1 kid during undergrad, and had to work nearly full-time. So I searched for a solution that would allow me to work in a position that gave me clinical experience while I studied. So I majored clinical laboratory sciences, and got a job analyzing blood samples and microbiology samples as well as performing phlebotomy. And after I got an associates in it, it paid well enough to provide for my small family.

 

[Paralegalities]

Perhaps one of the adcoms can comment specifically on the 1 course per semester situation. But it seems to me that it could very possibly be a liability, as well as unnecessarily prolonging the process. Right now it seems like you are understandably being cautious about risking your current position to pursue something that isn't a guarantee. So you need to do some soul searching and determine how determined you are to pursue medical school. Your full-time paralegal job is going to take up precious time that would need to be utilized with prerequisite courses, studying for the MCAT, pursuing research, participating in clinical experiences, volunteer time, etc.

Why do you want to keep your paralegal job the whole time you are studying? Can you find a job that also gives you some clinical experience? Do you need a full-time job for some reason? Or can you live on a part-time income to free up some study time and extracurricular activity time? You can certainly keep your paralegal job while you formulate a plan and a way forward. But I would suggest that if you really commit to medicine, then you should start to gravitate to positions that will help you move your career forward, like clinical positions or paid research positions or something like that.

I was a non-traditional student in undergrad. I was married and had 1 kid during undergrad, and had to work nearly full-time. So I searched for a solution that would allow me to work in a position that gave me clinical experience while I studied. So I majored clinical laboratory sciences, and got a job analyzing blood samples and microbiology samples as well as performing phlebotomy. And after I got an associates in it, it paid well enough to provide for my small family.

I wanted to keep the paralegal job while studying for the income mostly, it paid decently, so even if I couldn't get into medical school those years wouldn't have been a complete waste since I'd still have a decent amount of money saved up from it I could use to pursue other options. The universe works in mysterious ways though, because this is no longer a problem for me, as I got fired yesterday out of nowhere (out of 20 employees, 12 have quit or been fired this week, it's a huge mess).

I'm still interested in the answer to the 1-2 class per semester question though if any Adcoms see this, since I'm not sure what my next job will entail.

I agree that getting a clinical job would be the best option, it just seems like all of those in my area require some type of certification that take a long time to get with no guarantee of ever being hired with it. Even things like medical assisting and EMT still require a year of classes/experience to maybe get an entry level job. I'll continue looking into it though. I appreciate the response and advice.

 

[TwoHighways]

Find a way to take two classes per term. You’ll be able to address the why medicine and why you only took classes half time in your essays. Do well on the MCAT, and the rigor of your coursework won’t be questioned so much. Also, this is admittedly coming from my own biased worldview, but try to take a bigger picture approach when looking at the problems with the healthcare system. What can we be doing better to prevent the need for invasive surgeries? How can we get our population healthier as a whole? FWIW, a career in the law, specifically policy advocation may be more efficacious than being a physician. Food for thought.

 

[deleted1011020]

I took 12 credits (and sometimes more) a semester working full time 40-60 hrs for 4 years. You can definitely do it, it just takes some scheduling finessing and you will definitely not have much of a life.

I managed to have hobbies, a puppy, and a girlfriend but there were stretches where hobbies/sleep were sacrificed.

To address the research issue, either take a credit class that allows for research and find a mentor in public health, computational biology, etc. Those kinds of fields require less in-person time and are probably higher yield in terms if publishing.

 

[Dr. Faust]

Take some pre-reqs to figure out your aptitude for pursuing a science career. Getting into law school is way easier than getting into medical school, so do not assume that because the current road is not as bad as you thought that the next one will be equally as easy.

 

[Paralegalities]

Take some pre-reqs to figure out your aptitude for pursuing a science career. Getting into law school is way easier than getting into medical school, so do not assume that because the current road is not as bad as you thought that the next one will be equally as easy.

I completely agree that law school is easier, and that starting off slower would be better to see if I can still do well. I'm reasonably sure I can though, as I took a few science classes just for personal interest while getting my non-science degree, and always did well with very little time spent on them during 18 credit semesters.

Biostatistics - A
Biology I - B (I spent almost zero effort on this class due to academic burnout, it would have been an easy A if I cared more)
Biology I Lab - A-
Anatomy and Physiology I with lab - A
Anatomy and Physiology II with lab - A
Introductory Neuroscience - A
Pharmacology - A
Microbiology with lab - A

 

[dogbert2234]

With regard to your initial question on research, it really depends on what kind of school you would want to attend. If you aren't set on studying at a Harvard, Mayo Clinic, or Columbia, you can definitely get accepted without having research experience. It helps, but is by no means necessary.

As for your job, you are just as well off doing a post-baccalaureate program to complete your pre-reqs and taking out a loan instead of trying to work your way through the next 5 years. Medical schools will already love that you have a non-science background, and having job experience will also be a plus. Your story and reasons for wanting to pursue medicine are just as valid as anyone else's, and they set you apart from other applicants. But if you're serious about medicine, chances are you'll be going into massive amounts of debt as soon as you start school. If you try to stay out of debt now, you're just prolonging the inevitable--and the sooner you get out of school, the sooner you can pay it off.

 

[Goro]

My dilemma is that since I have a non-science degree (although have taken a couple pre-req classes along the way and have done well) and now work full time (10 hours a day), I would only be able to take one class plus lab per semester at night, and it would take about 4 years of taking classes and MCAT studying, volunteering etc. to meet the requirements. I know the rigor of the class load is considered by admissions committees, and am kind of concerned they would just laugh at only taking one class at a time for years compared to full-time students taking 5+ classes at a time. Is taking one class at a time ok?

There's also no possible way I could do research. While my university has tons of research opportunities available, they refuse to accept volunteers, only for-credit students, and they require people to do it during business hours when I'd be at work. Will that be a problem for admissions committees?

Would my 5ish years by application time as a disability paralegal be seen as any kind of benefit, considering I work far more with the medical community than the law one?

In your opinion, are my reasons for wanting to pursue a medical career good enough? It seems like most pre-meds I know have these elaborate stories of dreaming of being a doctor for their entire life etc. and I kind of feel like mine doesn't match up with that.

Are my stats decent enough? 3.85 overall GPA, 3.75 science GPA, vice president and treasurer of two academic related college clubs, employed as a full time paralegal who manages four legal interns per semester.

I have interviewed people who took one class at a time and we rejected them. You have to be able to demonstrate that you can handle the rigors of a med school curriculum.

I suggest that you save up your money and then enroll in a post-bac program for career changers.

Research is overrated and you can get into med school without it, especially as a non-trad.

Your GPAs are fine right now.

You will need to volunteer with patients because when/if you see them, they're clients. You need to demonstrate that you know what you're getting into. You also need ot engage in nonclinical volunteering, and shadow doctors.

 

[Paralegalities]

With regard to your initial question on research, it really depends on what kind of school you would want to attend. If you aren't set on studying at a Harvard, Mayo Clinic, or Columbia, you can definitely get accepted without having research experience. It helps, but is by no means necessary.

I don't really have a preference for which school I'd want to attend, anything in the United States would be fine with me as long as it results in becoming a physician. Preferably MD of course, but I have no issues at all with DO if that's how things turn out.

I have interviewed people who took one class at a time and we rejected them. You have to be able to demonstrate that you can handle the rigors of a med school curriculum.

I suggest that you save up your money and then enroll in a post-bac program for career changers.

Research is overrated and you can get into med school without it, especially as a non-trad.

Your GPAs are fine right now.

You will need to volunteer with patients because when/if you see them, they're clients. You need to demonstrate that you know what you're getting into. You also need ot engage in nonclinical volunteering, and shadow doctors.

Outside of a formal post-bac program (which seems super expensive after some googling), what do you think should be the minimum number of science credits per semester I should take to be competitive?

The city I live in now is perfect for a DIY post-bac, as there are two major universities, an extremely high quality community college (top 10 in the country), and two large hospitals to volunteer/shadow at all within a few miles of each other. However... due to the nature of science/math classes stacking on each other and the classes I've already taken, I'm not sure it's even possible to find more than 6-8 science credits per semester I'd qualify to take since everything has pre-requisites.

Also, I understand 4 year university classes are more competitive but considering I already have a degree would med schools be understanding of me taking community college pre-req classes? I found extremely conflicting answers in the search bar here. It's 1/3 the price and a lot of their science professors are the exact same people teaching the same classes at the 4 year university next door, so it'd be hard to justify paying triple the price for me unless it's truly necessary.

 

[Wolvvs]

The city I live in now is perfect for a DIY post-bac, as there are two major universities, an extremely high quality community college (top 10 in the country), and two large hospitals to volunteer/shadow at all within a few miles of each other. However... due to the nature of science/math classes stacking on each other and the classes I've already taken, I'm not sure it's even possible to find more than 6-8 science credits per semester I'd qualify to take since everything has pre-requisites.

A formal post-bac wouldn't be ideal for you as you are already part of the way there. You could start with Chemistry and Physics, which have no prerequisites. You will also need to take Bio II (if your Bio I satisfies the prerequisite, otherwise you may need Bio I again), Organic Chemistry I (and II if you want to have the most schools available), and Biochemistry. It doesn't look like you need additional upper level biology courses as you already did well in those.

You can stick to two classes per semester if you have a full-time job, otherwise you should take additional classes. Ideally you could get a full-time job that includes clinical experience.

I would leave it to Goro to answer CC vs 4 year, but based on previous posts, you're not doing this to avoid tough weed-out classes at your university and you already demonstrated you could do well in science classes, so CC might be a reasonable choice.

 

[Goro]

I don't really have a preference for which school I'd want to attend, anything in the United States would be fine with me as long as it results in becoming a physician. Preferably MD of course, but I have no issues at all with DO if that's how things turn out.



Outside of a formal post-bac program (which seems super expensive after some googling), what do you think should be the minimum number of science credits per semester I should take to be competitive?

The city I live in now is perfect for a DIY post-bac, as there are two major universities, an extremely high quality community college (top 10 in the country), and two large hospitals to volunteer/shadow at all within a few miles of each other. However... due to the nature of science/math classes stacking on each other and the classes I've already taken, I'm not sure it's even possible to find more than 6-8 science credits per semester I'd qualify to take since everything has pre-requisites.

Also, I understand 4 year university classes are more competitive but considering I already have a degree would med schools be understanding of me taking community college pre-req classes? I found extremely conflicting answers in the search bar here. It's 1/3 the price and a lot of their science professors are the exact same people teaching the same classes at the 4 year university next door, so it'd be hard to justify paying triple the price for me unless it's truly necessary.

As anon-trad the CC route might be looked at more favorably. You're going to need to take a minimum of two classes to be taken seriously. And it's for your benefit as well. You need to prove to yourself that you can handle med school. There is no "I know I can do it" you need to prove it.