Non-traditional DO Student Just Matched Gen Surg… Ask me anything…
Non-traditional DO Student Just Matched Gen Surg… Ask me anything…
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misshighenergy
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What were your extracurriculars?
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Is it what you wanted?
SOSA e board,
SAOAO e board
Tutor
Cadaver lab TA
I’m also Army National Guard
Lots of research
I duel applied Ortho and Gen Surg
Rowan
My research was actually all orthopedic surgery based since I knew that would be the specialty that definitely required that specific type of research. I had a mentor who gave me a topic for a systematic review that I could spearhead myself. I hooked up with his research fellow to help me out with edits . That fellow also got me involved in 2 other studies. All 3 eventually were published and I presented them at small conferences locally and online. I also did data collection for 7 or so studies which I was non credited on. Also had a couple credited abstracts and posters from my prior career as a PT
I applied all locally to programs in NJ, PA, NY, DE, and some Maryland. Staying local was really important to me since I have a family.
I received 7 interviews from 40 applications. I could have applied to more GS programs and prob got more interviews but I didn’t want to apply to institutions for both ortho and GS. That isn’t a good look. I would probably have still kept it at 40 if I only applied GS since location was super important. All my interviews were from this pool of local programs.
I actually didn’t do an audition in GS since I had to dedicate more time to ortho to be competitive. Makes me feel honored that my program ranked me high enough to pick me despite not having auditioned. If I did audition it would have also have been local
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Np glad to help. It stung not getting Ortho but you also have to remember literally thousands of students went unmatched this year. It’s an honor to match period and you can’t ever lose sight of that. Go into medical school and give it everything you have and at the end you can rest easy knowing you did all you could and where you end up is where you were meant to be. You can’t worry about the things outside of your control.
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What were the reasons you decided against a research year for ortho?
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What were your stats? Also what did you use for LORs for general surgery? Crazy that you matched with no aways.
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Did you have any worries that certain programs would be bias against you being a DO?
I had sufficient research without a research year. Since that was a strong part of my app I didn’t feel it was necessary. I have a family and I’m an older student. I didn’t want to take an extra year to complete med school if it wasn’t necessary. That being said, I had a scored step/level 1. Without that, research is even more huge to stand out from the rest in any surgical specialty.
I’m incredibly grateful that my program took me without visiting there. GS is not a typical Ortho backup because it’s still very competitive in its own right. COMLEX 1&2 were 699/639 STEP 1&2 were 248/243. The drop in scores may have been a factor costing me Ortho. My second kid was born around that time, plus I was studying for boards and Ortho, plus I had to go train with the Army. Was not an easy time for step/level 2 lol
LORs I used 2 general surgeons that I worked with, an OB-GYN who I operated with and I was close with, and my mentor who I did research with who was an Ortho
Yes I did…. That’s why I didn’t apply all over the country. I’d recommend applying to everything in the region you want to be in and then applying to DO friendly places outside of where you’d prefer to be in. The odds of getting into a non DO friendly program somewhere in an area that won’t be familiar with your school is a waste of time and money IMO.
For instance I applied to every program in NJ and then DO friendly programs outside of NJ. GS appears to be less divided then Ortho from what I saw.
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How do you feel about the upcoming 70-90 hour work week with your family and new kiddo?
Asking as a non-trad 25 y/o who just started prereqs and has surgery in their top 3 interests
Asking as a non-trad 25 y/o who just started prereqs and has surgery in their top 3 interests
I have a 1.5 year old and a 2.5 year old. Trust me, losing time with them and their mom keeps me up at night. It’s all about time management and communication with my wife while optimizing the time with them which is similar to rotations, auditions, and board studies. Residency sucks no matter the specialty but in the end everything I do is so they have an easier life in addition to fulfilling my passion. As an attending I’ll have more say in the time I put in and everything will be worth it. I’m grateful that my support system is incredible and that we had them while I was in school rather than residency.
theoceanman
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Should I go full gunner mode once I start medical school for research and EC's so I could be competitive enough for general surgery/anesthesiology (my top 2 choices)?
Edit: I'm not trying to be funny, but a genuine concern that I had with matching.
Edit: I'm not trying to be funny, but a genuine concern that I had with matching.
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Not OP, but every post regarding those two fields has required step scores above 240+ and a good number of research experiences. DO schools are not particularly adept at providing research save for a few outliers. I would go full "gunner" mode in that you are consistently on the look out for opportunities and ensuring that you will be prepared to kill Step 1/2. With 600 more DO students being added next year alongside Step 1 p/f being in full swing, the game is changing quickly. I'm even concerned going after a historically uncompetitive field.
theoceanman
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That’s what I saw too, anesthesiology is starting to become much more competitive than what it used to be
I’d tell you first thing you should do when you start medical school is establish good study habits, a support system, and just get acclimated to your new situation. Then I would tell you get to work. I hate the word “gunner”. To me that means working hard but also at the detriment of somebody else. Don’t be THAT gunner. Don’t be an a$$hole, but get to work. Definitely make connections with people in the specialties you want. Use your connections that got you to med school in the first place. Get on papers and take a few leadership positions. Pass step/level 1 and study for it as if it were for a score. That will help you get the highest score you can on step/level 2.
I didn’t do this but since you are relying on step/level 2, consider a research year after year 3. You take level 2 immediately before auditions. You start auditions before you even have your score back and know if you are competitive or not. A research year allows you to get your score before audition and adequately prepare for them while getting on a few papers. Of course speak with your school advisers first before doing this.
EVERYTHING is competitive especially for the DOs. 4K applicants didn’t match this year. Go into medical school thinking you want to be the best you can be and you will. Grades and networking are key to this
theoceanman
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Thank you so much for all this advice!!
Happy to help! You can only control the things you can control. Worrying about the rest is wasted energy.
theoceanman
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Oh I thought it meant "gunning into it" like going full try-hard in medical school from Day 1 by doing multiple research projects, seeking mentors and advisors in the area for the specialty you're interested in doing residency, etc., I did not actually think it was about sabotaging other students...
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I deleted it because I realized i was mostly talking out of my ass. I was remembering posts from a long time ago and hearing stories of people swapping structure labels in cadaver lab late at night etc.
But yes, a lot of schools had a very competitive nature because class rankings and grades were very important. And still are at some schools. So being a gunner then vs now is much different at least from my understanding.
Whether it’s old school or new school definition it’s not a complimentary term. Even if it isn’t referring to you as an active saboteur, it implies that your kinda a know if all or annoying robot that does nothing but school.
I joined the NJ Army National Guard in spring 2020, my M1 year. I drill once a month which consists of doing vitals, hearing tests, vision tests, record review, and other stuff to help the providers. We do yearly health assessments on soldiers to make sure they are ready to deploy. I’m committed for 6 years drilling with an additional 2 where I can drill or go on IRR status ( which means I don’t drill and don’t get paid. If they absolutely need me they can bring me back on a drilling status but that doesn’t happen).
Your MOS as a medical student is 00E which doesn’t exist anywhere else in the military bc you are basically useless as far as the Army is concerned until you graduate.
I’m preparing my packet now for when I graduate. I’ll be changed to the Medical Corps rather than the Medical Service Corps and I’ll get promoted to Captain O-3. As a resident I’ll do similar duties as a student except I’ll learn to do what the attendings do and do some of the medical clearing work myself. I will not perform the duties of a General Surgeon but my specific MOS will reflect being a GS. If I want to do that actual work I can go to the reserves.
As a student and resident you are NON DEPLOYABLE. MDSSP and STRAP are stipends you can get while in med school and residency respectively but they extend your commitment 2 years for every year you take it. HLRP is loan forgiveness, 40k a year for a max 6 years. This also extends your commitment 1 year for every 1 year you take it. If your commitment extends past your residency/fellowship you CAN and WILL BE DEPLOYED.
I don’t take any additional help and I’ll go on IRR Jan of my PGY-3 year.
Each state has its own benefits in addition to the federal stuff. NJ gives a tuition waiver for ALL college as long as it’s a public school so medical school tuition was paid.
HPSP is the military scholarship from Army, Navy or Air Force. You do nothing in med school and everything is paid for. You apply to the military match and if you don’t match you do the civilian match. After you finish residency/fellowship you serve at least 4 years active duty. You are stationed where the military needs you and you will be deployed over seas at least once. You will perform your specialty. This is for people who are more serious about military medicine.
misshighenergy
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starting my first year at pcom this august. how does one get involved with national guard ( not an NJ resident , i’m a PA resident )
Congratulations on your acceptance! I put 2 address below for you. The first lets you put in an area code to find a recruiter near you. I’d call them and they should be able to get you in contact with the recruiter in the area specific to AMEDD (Army Medical Department). The second link takes you to the AMEDD page on the National Guard website. I’d look up the PA Army Guard website too and check out info specific to PA. Each state has their own benefits in addition to the federal ones. No tuition waiver in PA though so you’re on the hook for med school unless you do loan reimbursement, which extends your commitment. Congrats and good luck! Feel free to ask more questions if you have them.
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OMS-3 . do you know if navy offers FTOS for radiology, I couldn't find that info in the BUPERS note. wanting to duel apply neurosurg and rads but I want FTOS or NADDS and realize they are hard to come by. Yes I know you're gen surg but you went through the match process and maybe you know someone who matched rads. I just really need some answers, thanks in advance. best of luck to you!
I’m sorry I don’t know anything about that really. I’m Army and I’m National Guard so I didn’t do the military match. From what I understand you can military match and/or civilian match. In the end what specialty you can do is up to the needs of the military. Generally you do your 4 years after residency/fellowship regardless. The exceptions and processes are beyond my knowledge. Sorry and good luck. Happy to try to answer any other questions
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Striving D.O.
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I am doing the HPSP scholarship and got accepted into a D.O. program that starts this fall. I really want to do general surgery and I have heard mixed things about being military surgeon. Are you doing general surgery in the military?
Congrats on the acceptance! I’m not HPSP so no I didn’t do the military match. I’m in the National Guard. Scroll up and I explained in detail what I do.
HPSP is the military scholarship from Army, Navy or Air Force. You do nothing in med school and everything is paid for. You apply to the military match and if you don’t match you do the civilian match. After you finish residency/fellowship you serve at least 4 years active duty. You are stationed where the military needs you and you will be deployed over seas at least once. You will perform your specialty. This is for people who are more serious about military medicine.
What are your concerns specifically?
HPSP is the military scholarship from Army, Navy or Air Force. You do nothing in med school and everything is paid for. You apply to the military match and if you don’t match you do the civilian match. After you finish residency/fellowship you serve at least 4 years active duty. You are stationed where the military needs you and you will be deployed over seas at least once. You will perform your specialty. This is for people who are more serious about military medicine.
What are your concerns specifically?
D
deleted1139416
Were your Gen Surg LORs from academic attendings in residency programs or PP attendings? Thanks for doing this!!
I had both. Go into audition season with solid letters to use that may not be academic docs. That way if you aren’t comfortable asking docs at programs that you audition at you will still be set for your app. I even had other docs that weren’t GS write me letters. One of my best was an OB-GYN who I was close with. Having options doesn’t hurt
