Nonprestigious schools known for placement in particular competitive residencies

[flatearth22]

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Usually by the quality of their own home program. Inspired by this: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=12317489&postcount=209

The ones I know of:

Rush: Orthopedics

NYMC: Radiology

Drexel: Anesthesiology, EM(?)

Any more?

 

[Nymphicus]

Any US MD granting school.

 

[Morzh]

Any US MD granting school.

👍👍

 

[flatearth22]

Any US MD granting school.

The idea is that although NYMC and Rush are ranked similarly Rush has a strong ortho program, great exposure to ortho, and the ability to receive great advising and LOR's in ortho.. So more students get interested in that particular specialty and have success matching. The match data back this up. So while it is obviously possible to match into any residency from any med school it is probably an easier road to get ortho if you have the advising, LOR's, and exposure from prominent Rush ortho people rather than trying out for ortho from NYMC, for example.

 

[blizzah]

Are rad, anesthesiology and EM particularly competitive? Obviously it is hard to get into top places for those specialties, but overall I thought they were just average.

 

[deleted103644]

Usually by the quality of their own home program. Inspired by this: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=12317489&postcount=209

The ones I know of:

Rush: Orthopedics

NYMC: Radiology

Drexel: Anesthesiology, EM(?)

Any more?

The radiology PD for NYMC likes to encourage students to apply. They always send far more than any other school, but that doesn't mean they necessarily do any better (some go to good places, some to bad, a few don't match - and just matching is easy in radiology for US seniors).

She is a good advisor for radiology applicants though, but your individual shot at a good program would be better going to one of the other NYC academic places.

 

[kautionwirez]

The idea is that although NYMC and Rush are ranked similarly Rush has a strong ortho program, great exposure to ortho, and the ability to receive great advising and LOR's in ortho.. So more students get interested in that particular specialty and have success matching. The match data back this up. So while it is obviously possible to match into any residency from any med school it is probably an easier road to get ortho if you have the advising, LOR's, and exposure from prominent Rush ortho people rather than trying out for ortho from NYMC, for example.

Rush is higher ranked than NYMC.

check yo us news rankings foo!

 

[kautionwirez]

The radiology PD for NYMC likes to encourage students to apply. They always send far more than any other school, but that doesn't mean they necessarily do any better (some go to good places, some to bad, a few don't match - and just matching is easy in radiology for US seniors).

She is a good advisor for radiology applicants though, but your individual shot at a good program would be better going to one of the other NYC academic places.

are you a NYMC student?

what do you think about gsurg/neurosurg matching for NYMC?

 

[deleted103644]

are you a NYMC student?

what do you think about gsurg/neurosurg matching for NYMC?

Only know rads, sorry. Look for a match list.

 

[flatearth22]

Rush is higher ranked than NYMC.

check yo us news rankings foo!

Meh after top 50 it's all the same 😛

 

[SeminoleVesicle]

Just look at each school's match list buddy.

 

[flatearth22]

Just look at each school's match list buddy.

Too much work...plus it's not always that obvious because match lists change year to year and might just represent interest of a particular class and not strength of a particular school. Getting it by word-of-mouth like I did with NYMC and Rush and having it corroborated here seems like an easier method.

 

[Law2Doc]

Just look at each school's match list buddy.

Meaningless. A healthy percentage of the top students at every school who could land any specialty match into IM every year. Why? Because it's not about what you can get, it's about what you want to do for the next 40 years. Premeds are so focused on getting into a top school and then getting into a competitive residency that they don't realize that in med school the game changes. It's no longer about what you can get, it becomes what you want, where you want to end up, what works with family and SO, etc. The analysis is simply foreign to most premeds. So you see a list and think, boy nobody got ortho in Boston, while the reality may really be a list where everybody wanted to become endocrinologists in Nebraska and they all got exactly what they wanted, ergo the best match list possible. This dichotomy (want vs could get) more or less renders match lists useless to you.

There are lots of schools where 60 people could have gotten ortho if they wanted it, but only 10 applied, and all matched. Does that really make the place worse for ortho than the place where 30 people wanted ortho but only 12 got it? Of course not. But if you looked at a match list, and only got the final tally, youd come to the entirely wrong conclusion.

 

[drizzt3117]

The idea is that although NYMC and Rush are ranked similarly Rush has a strong ortho program, great exposure to ortho, and the ability to receive great advising and LOR's in ortho.. So more students get interested in that particular specialty and have success matching. The match data back this up. So while it is obviously possible to match into any residency from any med school it is probably an easier road to get ortho if you have the advising, LOR's, and exposure from prominent Rush ortho people rather than trying out for ortho from NYMC, for example.

I don't really think that's true. Any top 50 program will have some top faculty in ortho. Tufts matched 15/15 into ortho last year, they're not particularly well-known for ortho. The determining factor there is how many people in each class want to do a given specialty.

 

[flatearth22]

I don't really think that's true. Any top 50 program will have some top faculty in ortho. Tufts matched 15/15 into ortho last year, they're not particularly well-known for ortho. The determining factor there is how many people in each class want to do a given specialty.

Yeah that's why I specified non-prestigious schools. Obviously the higher ranked schools have better faculty, more resources, and make it easier to match where you want. But are there mid-tier schools that are known for specific competitive programs besides the ones listed? Like if someone was choosing between NYMC and Rush (sorry to use the same example over and over again) and knew they wanted Ortho then it would probably facilitated by going to Rush, whereas if they knew they wanted Rads then it would be facilitated by going to NYMC.

 

[EBTrailRunner]

Meaningless. A healthy percentage of the top students at every school who could land any specialty match into IM every year. Why? Because it's not about what you can get, it's about what you want to do for the next 40 years. Premeds are so focused on getting into a top school and then getting into a competitive residency that they don't realize that in med school the game changes. It's no longer about what you can get, it becomes what you want, where you want to end up, what works with family and SO, etc. The analysis is simply foreign to most premeds. So you see a list and think, boy nobody got ortho in Boston, while the reality may really be a list where everybody wanted to become endocrinologists in Nebraska and they all got exactly what they wanted, ergo the best match list possible. This dichotomy (want vs could get) more or less renders match lists useless to you.

There are lots of schools where 60 people could have gotten ortho if they wanted it, but only 10 applied, and all matched. Does that really make the place worse for ortho than the place where 30 people wanted ortho but only 12 got it? Of course not. But if you looked at a match list, and only got the final tally, youd come to the entirely wrong conclusion.

Good insight. What utility would you say a match list has then (for an incoming MS1)?

 

[Skinceutical]

Like if someone was choosing between NYMC and Rush (sorry to use the same example over and over again) and knew they wanted Ortho then it would probably facilitated by going to Rush, whereas if they knew they wanted Rads then it would be facilitated by going to NYMC.

Not really.

Your chances of matching in orthopaedics or radiology are far more dependent on your future performance in medical school and on the boards than which mid-tier medical school you ultimately attend. Frankly, any applicant would be ill-advised to use this as a criterion for choosing a school. Statistically speaking, there's probably about a 75% chance that any given accepted applicant to Rush will not be in a position to apply to ortho in 3 years (whether it's due to grades or USMLE scores or what have you). Basing your decision to attend Rush, or NYMC, or any other similar school solely because you think it would make you more competitive for a particular specialty would be a mistake.

Meh after top 50 it's all the same

Yes, because top 50 schools like the University of Massachusetts Worcester, Temple, and the University of Florida are so much more prestigious than bottom-feeders like UT Houston, Miami, and Jefferson.

 

[Mistadawkins]

Meaningless. A healthy percentage of the top students at every school who could land any specialty match into IM every year. Why? Because it's not about what you can get, it's about what you want to do for the next 40 years. Premeds are so focused on getting into a top school and then getting into a competitive residency that they don't realize that in med school the game changes. It's no longer about what you can get, it becomes what you want, where you want to end up, what works with family and SO, etc. The analysis is simply foreign to most premeds. So you see a list and think, boy nobody got ortho in Boston, while the reality may really be a list where everybody wanted to become endocrinologists in Nebraska and they all got exactly what they wanted, ergo the best match list possible. This dichotomy (want vs could get) more or less renders match lists useless to you.

There are lots of schools where 60 people could have gotten ortho if they wanted it, but only 10 applied, and all matched. Does that really make the place worse for ortho than the place where 30 people wanted ortho but only 12 got it? Of course not. But if you looked at a match list, and only got the final tally, youd come to the entirely wrong conclusion.

Wow, great insight!

 

[flatearth22]

Not really.

Your chances of matching in orthopaedics or radiology are far more dependent on your future performance in medical school and on the boards than which mid-tier medical school you ultimately attend. Frankly, any applicant would be ill-advised to use this as a criterion for choosing a school. Statistically speaking, there's probably about a 75% chance that any given accepted applicant to Rush will not be in a position to apply to ortho in 3 years (whether it's due to grades or USMLE scores or what have you). Basing your decision to attend Rush, or NYMC, or any other similar school solely because you think it would make you more competitive for a particular specialty would be a mistake.


Yes, because top 50 schools like the University of Massachusetts Worcester, Temple, and the University of Florida are so much more prestigious than bottom-feeders like UT Houston, Miami, and Jefferson.

Well obviously it's hard to match into Ortho. But all things being equal one would have better shot at Rush because of the exposure, LOR's, faculty, home program prestige etc. than NYMC.

And FYI the 😛 (that you didn't quote) denotes sarcasm

 

[tantacles]

Not really.

Your chances of matching in orthopaedics or radiology are far more dependent on your future performance in medical school and on the boards than which mid-tier medical school you ultimately attend. Frankly, any applicant would be ill-advised to use this as a criterion for choosing a school. Statistically speaking, there's probably about a 75% chance that any given accepted applicant to Rush will not be in a position to apply to ortho in 3 years (whether it's due to grades or USMLE scores or what have you). Basing your decision to attend Rush, or NYMC, or any other similar school solely because you think it would make you more competitive for a particular specialty would be a mistake.

Yes, because top 50 schools like the University of Massachusetts Worcester, Temple, and the University of Florida are so much more prestigious than bottom-feeders like UT Houston, Miami, and Jefferson.

You underestimate Worcester, man. The city has, like, 20 dive bars, and upwards of 10 of them have hookers. How many other cities can say that?

 

[45408]

Good insight. What utility would you say a match list has then (for an incoming MS1)?

Virtually none.

 

[KinasePro]

OP, I think you're more interested in what "non-prestigious" medical schools have particularly excellent home residency programs. Working backwards from there, you can make an educated guess as to where you'll find well-connected mentors in your specialty of choice.

Obviously, there's no guarantee that going to a medical school with strong home programs will help you in the match, and this logic is a gamble, at best... But if I was 100% certain I wanted to pursue ortho (and let's be serious, there are plenty of people who know exactly what they want to do before matriculation), I'd probably pick Rush/Tennessee/Jefferson/Utah over similar schools that I liked as much or that cost me the same in tuition.

 

[deleted103644]

This is what I'd recommend:

Look at US News for Ortho and see how hospitals compare. If you're interested in a specialty that isn't listed, check to see if there are any top doctors in the field at that hospital.

Aside from personal connections from well known faculty, mid or low tier schools will mostly be interchangeable aside from local networking. Your match will mainly be by class rank and board score, although you'll have a rougher time than someone at a top place.

So if there are no big faculty and you don't know where you want to practice, might as well flip a coin.

Match lists might show you where people have gone, but if those residents reflected poorly on the school they could make it harder to follow rather than easier.

 

[EBTrailRunner]

How can someone get a sense of top residency programs for a specific specialty before they've done their clinical clerkships?

 

[KinasePro]

How can someone get a sense of top residency programs for a specific specialty before they've done their clinical clerkships?

Therein lies the problem. If you have no access to senior medical students or junior residents, this business of assessing residency programs as a pre-med becomes pretty futile.

You can glean SOME information from the SDN residency forums and peruse the residency reviews/impressions threads. Maybe lurk the forums at the sub-specialty websites (auntminnie.com, uncleharvey.com, uromatch.com).

 

[deleted103644]

How can someone get a sense of top residency programs for a specific specialty before they've done their clinical clerkships?

SDN is the only reference you have really (or auntminnie for rads). There are more options for IM and that's probably the best specialty to look at since a) there will always be people who want to do it and b) there are semi-objective rankings out there.

 

[shinbeats]

lol@premeds dreaming about competitive specialties. flatearth get your step scores first.

 

[music2doc]

Would sites such as http://www.residentphysician.com/ and http://www.brimr.org/NIH_Awards/2011/NIH_Awards_2011.htm be useful? They list the NIH awards by department for different departments. It seems that that might give some indication of how strong a dept is at a given school, so, for instance, if someone were set on EM and had to decide between VCU and Arizona (both in the 60-80 range of national rankings), a student from Arizona would appear to have a better home EM dept (ranked #8 of 32 in funding with $694k vs VCU at #24 of 32 with $194k). On the other hand, USC is ranked dead last and is clearly better than either of these schools....

Any thoughts? Are such resources of value at all? It seems that a dept with excellent NIH funding would be more likely to be a well-respected dept, but this would obviously have to be balanced with other factors.

 

[kautionwirez]

Meaningless. A healthy percentage of the top students at every school who could land any specialty match into IM every year. Why? Because it's not about what you can get, it's about what you want to do for the next 40 years. Premeds are so focused on getting into a top school and then getting into a competitive residency that they don't realize that in med school the game changes. It's no longer about what you can get, it becomes what you want, where you want to end up, what works with family and SO, etc. The analysis is simply foreign to most premeds. So you see a list and think, boy nobody got ortho in Boston, while the reality may really be a list where everybody wanted to become endocrinologists in Nebraska and they all got exactly what they wanted, ergo the best match list possible. This dichotomy (want vs could get) more or less renders match lists useless to you.

There are lots of schools where 60 people could have gotten ortho if they wanted it, but only 10 applied, and all matched. Does that really make the place worse for ortho than the place where 30 people wanted ortho but only 12 got it? Of course not. But if you looked at a match list, and only got the final tally, youd come to the entirely wrong conclusion.

Not really.

Your chances of matching in orthopaedics or radiology are far more dependent on your future performance in medical school and on the boards than which mid-tier medical school you ultimately attend. Frankly, any applicant would be ill-advised to use this as a criterion for choosing a school. Statistically speaking, there's probably about a 75% chance that any given accepted applicant to Rush will not be in a position to apply to ortho in 3 years (whether it's due to grades or USMLE scores or what have you). Basing your decision to attend Rush, or NYMC, or any other similar school solely because you think it would make you more competitive for a particular specialty would be a mistake.


Yes, because top 50 schools like the University of Massachusetts Worcester, Temple, and the University of Florida are so much more prestigious than bottom-feeders like UT Houston, Miami, and Jefferson.

I concur.

-Peter Griffin

Virtually none.

Match list says nothing and it's all about:

Step 1 scores/AOA/Clinical grades/LORs/(Your school prestige)/Interview.

amirite?