Nontrad courseload

[MIGLdr]

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As I get ready to plan out the remainder of the courses I need to take I got concerned about this issue. The way I have set things up, I'll be taking:

Spring: 2nd semester Bio
Summer: General Chem II
Fall: Physics I, Orgo I
Winter: Physics II, Orgo II, Orgo Lab

Although Physics and Orgo are no walks in the park, my undergrad premed peers (the nontrad variety) will typically take a heavier courseload then what I plan to (maybe 1 or 2 additional courses, since they have to be concerned about their major as well).

I actually had to quit my full-time consulting job to pursue this endeavor because it was 85% travel and there was no way I could simultaneously do the out-of-town-thing and take classes at a 4 year institution at the same time. I'm using the money I orginally saved up to buy a house to get the undergrad courses done, so at this point I'm cruising on savings and trying to live on a tight budget and frugally. (I have a 401K in reserve but plan never to touch that). At this point, I don't have a full/part time job, but plan to do something in the spring/summer to reduce the financial hemmorghage rate.

I have no family of my own to support, and no other significant responsibilities to others, so at the time I thought that concentrating full-force on academics for 1.5 years will be the quickest and most efficient way of achieving my end objective.

So my question is, does it look bad in the application process for a nontrad if I took less then a full courseload (like the plan I described above) and not have a fulltime job? Or should I try and enhance my courseload with some courses that are recommended but not required? (ie. other bio / chem classes)

Sorry if this sounds like an awkward and confusing question.

 

[notdeadyet]

So my question is, does it look bad in the application process for a nontrad if I took less then a full courseload (like the plan I described above) and not have a fulltime job? Or should I try and enhance my courseload with some courses that are recommended but not required? (ie. other bio / chem classes)

I've heard from multiple advisors that nontrads should make sure that they demonstrate recent coursework that shows you can handle a full-time load, regardless of your works situation.

If I were you, I'd take an extra class to bring you up to full-time student status. I would not want to work so hard for so long to have your ability to handle a full-time courseload called into question by adcoms. Just my $0.02....

 

[zebrafish]

So my question is, does it look bad in the application process for a nontrad if I took less then a full courseload (like the plan I described above) and not have a fulltime job? Or should I try and enhance my courseload with some courses that are recommended but not required? (ie. other bio / chem classes)

Sorry if this sounds like an awkward and confusing question.

I too am a non-trad. My husband and I left work to go back to school. We started a small contracting business to pay the bills and so far so good. I know when I filled out my aadsas app. they ask about work and how many hours you are putting in, so if your not working and not taking a full course they may not like that. My recommendation is get a part-time job, maybe even something mindless where you can do your homework on the job and take an extra class. Hope that helps

 

[relentless11]

Full-time is usually better than part-time, especially if you are coming from a situation where you want to prove yourself. If you had a 4.0 in the past, then its not really that much of a big deal. However all med schools will recommend that you take the "most rigorous" route whenever possible.

I agree that Physics and Ochem are pretty rough classes, but many undergrads do take both at the same time along wither electives. Quality over quantity, but at the same time you also want to challenge yourself too. Getting a 4.0 in 1 class is not as impressive as a 4.0 in 3-4 classes. The same can be said about the opposite. Its all about balance.

To be honest though, I know many have said that doing well in one class is better than doing poorly in 2-3 classes. Its true to some extent, BUT you aren't competing against yourself, you are competing against the next best applicant which may very well have done well under a full-time courseload. Remmeber that in med school, there is no such thing as a part-time student. Therefore you should get your mindset into being ABLE to study and do well in multiple hard classes at once. Block I of our first year here at UCD School of Medicine consists of 9-5 days. You take: doctoring, biochemistry, physiology, anatomy, and cell biology in addition to clinic work. You have to get at least a 75% to pass a class. Of course, despite it being pass/no pass, ranking high in your class helps you get into a good residency program..among other things.

Do what you think is best, since you know yourself the best. However in this game, I feel that its better to challenge yourself and strive to be ready for the future, while taking into account your limitations as well. Thats a roundable way of saying I have no idea what you should do since I'm not you😉. Good luck though=).

 

[MIGLdr]

Hey, thanks for the tips guys. It does make more sense now, and I think my reasoning for favoring a lighter courseload would have put me at a disadvantage.

Now, I'm trying to line up my classes for next fall. Thus far, it's:
-OrgoI
-Physics I
-<extra course 1> 🙄
-<extra course 2> 🙂

I will be working, volunteering, and taking classes this spring/summer so when the next school year starts I will only have Orgo / Physics / MCAT to worry about, when it comes to core courses.

Now, I'm trying to fit in more science courses for the 2 empty spots above, but Orgo conflicts with everything else I've tried at the moment lol. Would statistics be a good decent filler that adds value to my app?

I wanted to steer away from liberal arts courses because I want to stick to BCM GPA enhancers as much as possible.

 

[Nasrudin]

OP,

I think you're making good decisions. Statistics is a great course to add on. It not difficult and it's recomended by some med schools in the MSAR publication.

Keep it moving and do all that you can to maximize the couse load to performance relationship. Keep it at the back of your mind, that there are plenty of people out there that work full-time, get high grades, volunteer, and do other activities.

I used to scorn the idea that someone would tell me that I should do more than work full time and go to school full time. But as I'm closing in on my application time and thinking about all the aspects of a succesful application, I'm thinking that they were right to recomend pushing it beyond what you're comfortable with. good luck😀

 

[Flopotomist]

I have to disagree with the above posters. I see no reason to take a full course load just to show that you can handle a full load. Assuming there is no red flag on the academic side of things from your past, as a non-trad, the adcoms will likely be more interested in what you have done outside of school instead of whether you took 4 classes instead of 2 while you did your pre-reqs.

I did my pre-reqs one at a time over 4 years after my BA was done, and had interviews, and did fine. Not once was it even discussed in a negative light.

Good luck!

 

[postbacker]

I have to disagree with the above posters. I see no reason to take a full course load just to show that you can handle a full load. Assuming there is no red flag on the academic side of things from your past, as a non-trad, the adcoms will likely be more interested in what you have done outside of school instead of whether you took 4 classes instead of 2 while you did your pre-reqs.

I did my pre-reqs one at a time over 4 years after my BA was done, and had interviews, and did fine. Not once was it even discussed in a negative light.

Good luck!

I agree with this poster - I think that it is possible to get "too much" advice in this process - all of it is well intentioned - but if you are a non trad, returning to school for the pre reqs, you need to do what is right for YOU - ideally we would all jump out of our current lives and into a program like Goucher - but the reality is that this is not realistic for many non trads with financial responsibilities. (Along these same lines: if attending a CC is the only realistic route for you, then ignore the naysayers on SDN, kick butt, and move forward...)

Figure out what is right for you, and give it your best shot...good luck.

 

[GreyBlueEyes]

if you have no job and no family, i think it's smarter to go full time. you could probably add just one course and be going full time (12 hours). if nothing else, it gives you a little more room for error. if your only responsibility is going to school part time, you'd better make all As 😉 as someone else said, stats is a great class to add that you should find useful.

personally, i have three children and a husband who is active duty navy and so often not home (making me a single mom during those times). i have 3-4 courses scheduled each semester, 1-2 during the summer. most semesters they'll all be with labs (like this semester i'm taking 3 lab courses). i'm trying to finish my BS in chemistry. i also volunteer 4-6 hours/week. if nothing goes horribly wrong during finals, i should have straight As...i'm holding my breath, though, since my husband will be gone during that time. i swear, if any of the kids get sick during finals, they're going to my exam with me =p

point being, you're probably capable of more than you think. you don't have to stop with prereqs...there are lots of interesting classes you'd find useful 🙂 like biochem, genetics, etc. if your school has a nursing college there might even be some interesting health science courses, like medical terminology.

just some ideas 🙂

 

[cubbbie]

I have to disagree with the above posters. I see no reason to take a full course load just to show that you can handle a full load. Assuming there is no red flag on the academic side of things from your past, as a non-trad, the adcoms will likely be more interested in what you have done outside of school instead of whether you took 4 classes instead of 2 while you did your pre-reqs.

I did my pre-reqs one at a time over 4 years after my BA was done, and had interviews, and did fine. Not once was it even discussed in a negative light.

Good luck!

I'm with you. I think people seriously overestimate the amount of time admissions people spend examining a transcript. In reality, the the vast majority of cases (I'll give you not all cases), they'll merely take a glance at what classes you took and what grades you got in your classes. That's it. They won't look and see if you took a full load and relate that to what was going on in that moment in your life. It just doesn't work that way.

Now, with that in mind, you should try to finish the courses in a reasonable amount of time. If it takes you 5+ years to finish all the pre-reqs, that would raise a red flag. So what you need to be thinking about is the broader timeline, and not how many classes you're taking at a given semester.

It's far more important to do well in these classes than to pile on more than you can handle. I worked full-time and only did 2 classes at a time, and I've done really well in the application process. It was never an issue.

 

[Flopotomist]

I would be curious to see the status of people who are advocating going full time - are they actually IN med school? Sounds like they are still pre-med and making assumptions about the process.

 

[Chrissy]

"I've heard from multiple advisors that nontrads should make sure that they demonstrate recent coursework that shows you can handle a full-time load, regardless of your works situation.

If I were you, I'd take an extra class to bring you up to full-time student status. I would not want to work so hard for so long to have your ability to handle a full-time courseload called into question by adcoms. Just my $0.02...."

This is just not true. It will definitely help you as a non-trad to do well with a fulltime courseload, but I know for a fact that many of the most successful applicants from my post-bacc program are those who work fulltime and take usually 2 classes as well. In general, undergraduates vastly underestimate the difficulty of working 40 hrs plus attending class three nights a week and doing well in the classes. It is equally, if not more, impressive, than an undergrad courseload. my two cents...

 

[gotmeds?]

I would be curious to see the status of people who are advocating going full time - are they actually IN med school? Sounds like they are still pre-med and making assumptions about the process.

I never took a full-time courseload during my post-bacc and I got accepted to several schools. With that being said, I do think that taking less than a full-time load put me at a disadvantage. I compensated for this by maintaining a 4.0 and doing really well on the MCAT. As long as your grades and MCAT are solid, I don't think a part-time couseload will hurt too much. A part-time courseload wih so-so grades, on the other hand, is an application killer.

 

[njbmd]

Performance in coursework trumps courseload. If you are working full-time, do not attempt to take full-time coursework unless you have a job that allows you to study (and you can count on this study time). When AMCAS reports to us, they report a total undergraduate GPA not the number of hours taken in any given semester. Take only as many hours as you can handle and do well.

 

[DrMidlife]

Couple things to consider, imho.

1. If all you're taking is science, then taking a full load is maybe 2x more work than a "regular" undergrad courseload with general ed classes mixed in. I don't know or care whether adcoms recognize this.

2. No matter what, your grades have to be great. I made the mistake of taking 15 quarter units of science my first quarter of postbac and I didn't do well. Was a full time courseload out of the gate a mistake for me? Clearly. Does it absolve me of demonstrating (to myself and to adcoms) that I can handle the double-fulltime all-science courseload we'll get in med school? Hardly.

If I could do it again, I would have eased myself back into school with a part time load, and increased it over ~2 years to a heavy load. Instead I tried to simultaneously demonstrate good grades and success with a heavy load right away, and did neither. Be smarter than me.

Best of luck to you.

 

[notdeadyet]

I would be curious to see the status of people who are advocating going full time - are they actually IN med school? Sounds like they are still pre-med and making assumptions about the process.

I'd be curious as to what insights into the application process you gain as an MS1? Unless a med student is an adcom, I think everyone's opinion has an element of guesswork.

At the end of the day, it's all a matter of degree. Harvard BA >>> University of Toledo BA. Big name postbac >>> local JC. Peace Corps >>> Flipping burgers.

And full-time study >>> part-time study. That said, I'd rather have a 3.8 part-time than a 3.7 full-time.

And it's entirely possible to get in to some of the best med schools with a U of Toledo BA, Shouldastudied Junior College prereqs, and a certificate from McDonald University (a rock solid GPA and frameable MCAT helps). But where you're realistically able to hedge your bets to make your app look stronger, it's probably a good idea to do so.

 

[Nasrudin]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faze2 View Post
I guess my question is, do admissions boards really consider how many courses you take during a semester? Do they understand that non trad students have to work a lot as well and gain that important health care experience? I am sure it varies from school to school, but what have been your experiences with courseloads in applicants? (BTW, I need to show improvement from my poor undergrad GPA. <3.0 Been looking into SMP's as well.)

The adcom asks the question: is there evidence that this applicant can handle the workload of medical school? Doing poorly as an undergrad but better when taking only 2 courses per quarter doesn't fully answer the question. Yes, it is clear that you are working and going to school but you will be expected to attend school full-time as a medical student. Again, the question comes back to, will you be able to handle that workload?

The above is an excerpt from the mentor forum addressing the issue at hand here. This issue is recurrent here. Its a very serious question that the full-time working non-trad must grapple with.

Some positive, reassuring, well-qualified advice has been given here. But these comments most likely resemble the nature of the individuals who make them. Its worth entertaining the notion that adcoms are composed of individuals. Many of whom made the traditional path from highschool to college to med school without deviation and thus without sympathy for the allure of the unbeaten path. Others who possess excess resources similarly will see your full-time work plan as an academic cop-out--much like the above poster.

I personally, also an individual, do not see managing a larger course load as any different than any other time-consuming activity. But I'm on the wrong side of the table and therefore my opinion doesn't count. I can only demonstrate the efficacy of this position after having been given the chance to do so.
In the meantime all we can do is work really hard, try to be efficient, and maintain as well developed an academic profile as any of our younger, freer classmates who are also doing well. I don't expect any breaks for having to work. I think its best to consider it an academic liability to be mitigated against as much as possible.

 

[albaniandoc]

I would be curious to see the status of people who are advocating going full time - are they actually IN med school? Sounds like they are still pre-med and making assumptions about the process.

That's a good point. If you were a science major in college and did fine with full time classes then you have no reason to go full time. If you weren't and did so so then you might consider going full time. Generally speaking going full time is not going to hurt you, especially if you are not really working that much. In my case I was a nursing major and did not take a heavy science course load. Last semester (fall 2006) I took 15 credits (most of them science) while working full time and traveling to interviews. One of the universities wanted to wait and see my grades before I was invited for an interview (I got all As by the way). The result I got 6 acceptances out of 6 interviews. Starting med school this August.
This is my take on it. People here have good intentions, however every person is different and your situation might be different from theirs, so take everything with a grain of salt. Do yourself a favor and write a list of all your concerns and make an appointment with either a pre-med advisor or a med school admission director in a nearby medical school and ask all these questions to him/her. You will get a much better idea as to what you need rather than what the ADCOMS are generally looking for. I did this and it saved me a lot of time and grief.
Good luck

 

[GreyBlueEyes]

i just want to point out that most of the people saying that you don't have to go full time have said that if you're working, you shouldn't feel the need to prove yourself by taking a full load. i totally agree with that. my suggestion that you go full time was based on your statement that you're not working, or would only be working part time. back in the days before i had kids, i did work full time and go to school full time, but i wasn't taking lab courses then (which REALLY eat into your schedule). if you're working 20 hours or less or so, i really think you'd be fine taking 3 classes, since you don't have the demands of a spouse/kids. you're also eligible for more financial aid (if you're using that) when going full time 🙂

 

[Nasrudin]

That's a good point. If you were a science major in college and did fine with full time classes then you have no reason to go full time. If you weren't and did so so then you might consider going full time. Generally speaking going full time is not going to hurt you, especially if you are not really working that much. In my case I was a nursing major and did not take a heavy science course load. Last semester (fall 2006) I took 15 credits (most of them science) while working full time and traveling to interviews. One of the universities wanted to wait and see my grades before I was invited for an interview (I got all As by the way). The result I got 6 acceptances out of 6 interviews. Starting med school this August.
This is my take on it. People here have good intentions, however every person is different and your situation might be different from theirs, so take everything with a grain of salt. Do yourself a favor and write a list of all your concerns and make an appointment with either a pre-med advisor or a med school admission director in a nearby medical school and ask all these questions to him/her. You will get a much better idea as to what you need rather than what the ADCOMS are generally looking for. I did this and it saved me a lot of time and grief.
Good luck

Superb advice--reflective of the needs of the individual--and going straight to the horse's mouth. But remember to add more than one piece of data if you want to extrapolate your needs in a trend. Also the grain of salt should vary on this site. SDN seems to be maturing in its level of professional input from advisers with credentials including adcom members. Some of whom have responded to this query. The OP could get a couple of adcom opinions from the internet here as well as consult with a couple in person and have pretty good idea of what they must do.