northwest program reputations

[randydandy]

I was going to wait until I got interviews at these places (hopefully I will) to ask about this, but could wait no longer. I know that the national reputation of UW for anesthesia is strong and one could probably go anywhere after training there. My question is whether the same is true for VM and OHSU.

I have been in Texas the past 4 years and dont know as many people there as I used to but am interested in going back for residency but don't necessarily want to stay there indefinitely.

I am sorry if I somehow missed previous posts on this topic or similar. I looked but may have overlooked.

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[MCYan]

I heard VM has far superior regional experience than UW

 

[randydandy]

I don't know whether the lack of response means that their really isn't much of a national reputation for these two programs. It makes me feel like maybe that is the case.

I have heard VM is good for regional/pain. But I don't know whether the program's rep goes beyond that for providing solid overall training. And I know even less about OHSU's national rep.

Really any input would be appreciated.

 

[Ridcully]

OHSU has traditionally been a mid-tier program but things have really picked up since they got Jeffrey Kirsch as the new chair in 2003. He's been very effective at recruiting research talent and funding, and as a result OHSU has rapidly become a national presence in academic anesthesia. It's already cracked the top 10 in NIH funding.

 

[Coastie]

I was going to wait until I got interviews at these places (hopefully I will) to ask about this, but could wait no longer. I know that the national reputation of UW for anesthesia is strong and one could probably go anywhere after training there. My question is whether the same is true for VM and OHSU.

I have been in Texas the past 4 years and dont know as many people there as I used to but am interested in going back for residency but don't necessarily want to stay there indefinitely.

I am sorry if I somehow missed previous posts on this topic or similar. I looked but may have overlooked.

For pure "rep" just go Stanford/UCSF. The northwest ones don't have anywhere near the prestige as those two, and it's not that far from the northwest.

For good training, OHSU/VM/UW are the ones...and aren't they the only ones in the northwest?

 

[randydandy]

Coastie,

So the feeling in the world of anesthesia is that even UW doesn't have much of a national rep? And VM and OHSU are not really on the radar for people outside the northwest?

If this is true, maybe it is better to not train up there if you don't know if you want to stay up there long term?

 

[Coastie]

Coastie,

So the feeling in the world of anesthesia is that even UW doesn't have much of a national rep? And VM and OHSU are not really on the radar for people outside the northwest?

If this is true, maybe it is better to not train up there if you don't know if you want to stay up there long term?

Train at the best possible place you can get into that you can stand. If you don't know that you want to stay in the NW long term, and you are asking about "national rep", why train @ UW/VM/OHSU?

 

[Ridcully]

For pure "rep" just go Stanford/UCSF. The northwest ones don't have anywhere near the prestige as those two, and it's not that far from the northwest.

For good training, OHSU/VM/UW are the ones...and aren't they the only ones in the northwest?

According to the chair at my school, who is currently the most senior chair in the country, OHSU and UW are both in the top 10 programs nationally. Of course UCSF and Stanford are as well.

 

[randydandy]

According to the chair at my school, who is currently the most senior chair in the country, OHSU and UW are both in the top 10 programs nationally. Of course UCSF and Stanford are as well.

Why so much discrepancy between what people think of these places?

Ridcully, are you on the west coast?

It seems like if these places are truly top 10, then people would hold them in high regard no matter where the ar coming from.

 

[Ridcully]

No, I am at a school in the midwest. I think the issue is that anesthesia is a less reputation-driven field compared to something like...say...internal medicine or surgery. Anesthesia research hasn't been particularly active until the last couple decades and so academic reputations are in a state of constant flux. Therefore the hierarchy of programs is much less well-defined and it is somewhat fruitless to try to compare top-tier institutions.

Now, this really only applies to academic anesthesia. If you care more about reputation among laypeople or private practice groups, I guess that is different ballgame. I am fairly certain you won't have trouble getting a job coming out of any of those institutions though.

 

[Pooh & Annie]

This "top ten" BS gets old. The only reproducible list you could make would be "top ten WELL-KNOWN programs", which would include UCSF, the Boston schools, etc. If you're looking for "top ten training programs", you'll see a different list from every participant.
ALL of the northwest programs are what I consider to be well above average, and well-known by anyone who knows about academic anesthesiology. Both the Seattle programs are HUGE in the research field, and from personal experience I know that both provide EXCELLENT training. I can't speak to the particulars about OHSU, but from what I hear, both from ex-residents, ex-faculty, AND faculty not associated with it, the experience there is SECOND TO NONE. Huge regional, huge everything else, great faculty.
VM is pretty exclusive, and much time is spent looking for residents that will meld well as a group. You need to be a great applicant, but if you're all about pomp and prestige, good luck getting ranked there.

 

[Coastie]

No, I am at a school in the midwest. I think the issue is that anesthesia is a less reputation-driven field compared to something like...say...internal medicine or surgery. Anesthesia research hasn't been particularly active until the last couple decades and so academic reputations are in a state of constant flux. Therefore the hierarchy of programs is much less well-defined and it is somewhat fruitless to try to compare top-tier institutions.

Now, this really only applies to academic anesthesia. If you care more about reputation among laypeople or private practice groups, I guess that is different ballgame. I am fairly certain you won't have trouble getting a job coming out of any of those institutions though.

"most senior chair"?



thanks for the input, and laughs, medical student.

 

[starsop93]

Pooh & Annie said it best. UW and VM are excellent programs. I know very little about OHSU, but everyone likes it there and has said for years that they are rapidly becoming a powerhouse program. If you want to be well-trained you will be happy at any of them I suspect.

National reputation is another story. Everyone out west knows these programs to be solid, and if you want to live out there you don't have to worry about people not knowing about them. If you are looking to live somewhere else, it's another story. I personally know very little about programs in the southeast, but I know a lot about programs in the west, mid-west, and northeast. In my opinion, a few merely above average programs out east are considered "top notch" by some basically because they're affiliated with an Ivy League school. Therefore, if it's important to you that the average colleague in NYC immediately respects your training, Virginia Mason is probably not the best place for you. I'm sure most people have some blind spots, so to speak, and I think you get less of that attitude outside the mid-atlantic and new england areas, but it's something you may want to consider.

In my opinion, you should decide where you would be happy to live and apply to the best programs there. If you feel the reputation isn't going to get you the job that you want, you can always do a fellowship at a "big name" which will make your CV look pretty sweet to anyone.

 

[Mista Suprane]

to the OP: i'll tell you what i say to medical students from outside institutions that rotate at my program. there are probably 40 programs that will give you excellent training. amongst those, probably 10 that have national reputation academically. unless you are definitely one that wants to advance up the academic ladder, just go to one of the 40 excellent training programs and you will be fine. i would say that UW, OHSU, and VM are probably in that group; UW is probably in top 10 nationally recognized, OHSU is close (i agree with the jeff kirsch comments - people here at the hopper speak very highly of him), and VM is a special case (see below):

Therefore, if it's important to you that the average colleague in NYC immediately respects your training, Virginia Mason is probably not the best place for you.

EVERYONE in academic anesthesia knows VM because they are arguably the top regional program (those at Cornell/HSS may argue otherwise) and have a large presence at national meetings such as ASRA . would NOT say they are even CLOSE to the academic pedigree of OHSU or UW, however (if such a thing matters to you, or even matters at all).

once again to the OP: my opinion is UW and OHSU are nationally know programs (in academia). if you want to stay in academics, you are fine. however, if you are moving to the NW for residency and then want to move to say, kansas, for a private practice job, it might be better off for you to go to a program that is more regionally relevant.

 

[Coastie]

Qft

pooh & annie said it best. Uw and vm are excellent programs. I know very little about ohsu, but everyone likes it there and has said for years that they are rapidly becoming a powerhouse program. If you want to be well-trained you will be happy at any of them i suspect.

National reputation is another story. Everyone out west knows these programs to be solid, and if you want to live out there you don't have to worry about people not knowing about them. If you are looking to live somewhere else, it's another story. I personally know very little about programs in the southeast, but i know a lot about programs in the west, mid-west, and northeast. In my opinion, a few merely above average programs out east are considered "top notch" by some basically because they're affiliated with an ivy league school. Therefore, if it's important to you that the average colleague in nyc immediately respects your training, virginia mason is probably not the best place for you. I'm sure most people have some blind spots, so to speak, and i think you get less of that attitude outside the mid-atlantic and new england areas, but it's something you may want to consider.

In my opinion, you should decide where you would be happy to live and apply to the best programs there. If you feel the reputation isn't going to get you the job that you want, you can always do a fellowship at a "big name" which will make your cv look pretty sweet to anyone.

 

[starsop93]

EVERYONE in academic anesthesia knows VM because they are arguably the top regional program (those at Cornell/HSS may argue otherwise) and have a large presence at national meetings such as ASRA . would NOT say they are even CLOSE to the academic pedigree of OHSU or UW, however (if such a thing matters to you, or even matters at all).
.

Completely agree, but I wasn't really talking about academic anesthesiology.

 

[randydandy]

to the OP: i'll tell you what i say to medical students from outside institutions that rotate at my program. there are probably 40 programs that will give you excellent training. amongst those, probably 10 that have national reputation academically. unless you are definitely one that wants to advance up the academic ladder, just go to one of the 40 excellent training programs and you will be fine. i would say that UW, OHSU, and VM are probably in that group; UW is probably in top 10 nationally recognized, OHSU is close (i agree with the jeff kirsch comments - people here at the hopper speak very highly of him), and VM is a special case (see below):



EVERYONE in academic anesthesia knows VM because they are arguably the top regional program (those at Cornell/HSS may argue otherwise) and have a large presence at national meetings such as ASRA . would NOT say they are even CLOSE to the academic pedigree of OHSU or UW, however (if such a thing matters to you, or even matters at all).

once again to the OP: my opinion is UW and OHSU are nationally know programs (in academia). if you want to stay in academics, you are fine. however, if you are moving to the NW for residency and then want to move to say, kansas, for a private practice job, it might be better off for you to go to a program that is more regionally relevant.

Yeah, definitely not concerned with reputation for reputation's sake. I assume that in residency just as in medical school you can get great education whether you are at Harvard or in a less well known location that still has good faculty and a commitment to producing solid MD's.

My concern is more about having flexibility to move/find a job elsewhere when I finish, rather than having to stay in the region where I trained.

Thanks for the comments so far. This has been helpful, and please if anyone else has any other thoughts/comments...I am all ears.

 

[PiPhiDoc]

I trained at UW for both medical school and residency.

I applied for anesthesiology residency programs all over the US, and the overall response I frequently got from other PD was extremely positive about UW's Anesthesiology training...including things like "Why aren't you just staying at UW?" (well, ok, good idea!)

I only applied for (and got) jobs in Western Washington, but many of my classmates took fellowships and private practice jobs all over the US, including California, Arizona, the midwest, southeast, NYC. Overall, no one had any difficulty getting the job or fellowship they wanted, regardless of the location.

I am 4 years out of residency now, in a very busy, extremely high-acuity practice were I regularly do trauma, major vascular, hearts, pediatrics (including NICU babies), high risk OB, and my training at UW was top-notch to handle all of this (including hearts without having done a CV fellowship, although I did as many extra cardiac cases as I could as a CA-3).

Can't speak to VM or OHSU - interviewed at both places and they seemed like good programs with nice people and good training.