Northwestern vs CCLCM

[badger822]

Hello everyone! I think I have narrowed it down to these two programs. I am hoping to practice in the Midwest with an eye to dermatology and being involved in public policy.

Northwestern
+ Closer to home (under 2 hours away) so much more familiarity with area and a close friend may go to law school here
+ More prestigious rank on PD and USNWR (?)
+ VERY Strong MBA and other Masters program while still conducting longitudinal research
+ Concept of ECMH sounds interesting to develop personal relationships in primary care and will prepare me well for clerkships
+ Potential benefit to matching back in the Midwest due to regional biases
+ Seemed to be fewer required activities
- Graded so more competition and stress
- Currently much more expensive as I have not yet heard back about matching full tuition or near it
- Large class size so hard to stand out (?)
- Less impressive match list with much lower proportion of matches in derm this year

CCLCM
+ More competitive match list
+ Clerkships at Cleveland Clinic are potentially more prestigious for better/more personalized LOR's
+ No AOA, grading, internal ranking, etc. (less stress?)
+ Free tuition
+ Prosections
+ Masters in Research would not cost extra
- Much further from home (around 7 hours away)
- Heard that the research thesis can be incredibly stress inducing based on who is on the committee
- No real focus/path to develop interest in policy
- Maybe too PBL focused

Thank you everyone!

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[Lemonlime98]

Cclcm better match list and much cheaper = no brainer

 

[seeinghowitgoes]

Cclcm better match list and much cheaper = no brainer

Agree - not much difference in prestige (if any), match lists both very good with slight edge to cclcm, Cclcm free = go with them.

To address a couple points specifically:

1. Cclcm likely gives you way more free time than most other schools on the country - yes attendance is required but the fact that you’re only in class a half day 4-6 days a week most weeks means that you still have more unstructured time than most med students. This becomes very clear 3rd year when you don’t have to deal with grades and can focus your energies on learning and keeping projects going.

2. You pick your thesis committee, so don’t think many people find it very stressful. If anything the type of person picking Cclcm wants to do research and puts the pressure on themselves to do a good job.

3. cclcm bills itself as all PBL no lecture but it’s really split pretty evenly. Unless you want all lecture no case-based learning (which is getting rarer given med Ed is moving to case based, and you mentioned being interested in an MBA which is often times case based it doesn’t seem like that’s the case for you) I don’t think Cclcm’s curriculum is too much.

Finally - from a stress standpoint you can’t overstate what it’s like not to have shelf exams or grades third year (get to take shelf exams for you to see the scores of only - literally just for practice). That along with no grades or tests years 1 and 2 would likely be the single largest difference in stress level in med school.

congrats on the choices, both will get you where you want to go, I just think cclcm does it in a less costly, less stressful way.

 

[wondervisions]

Cost difference?

There's no difference in prestige here, I would just go to whichever you personally prefer. Both will get you where you want to go.

 

[P_Kloud]

Disclaimer: I am on waitlist at CCLCM but I am accepted elsewhere so I will try to not be too biased lol

I think you really cannot go wrong between the two schools, both will set you up well for matching whatever specialty you want. I agree with others that there is not a significant difference in prestige between the medical schools. I think when it comes to splitting hairs between excellent programs, you just have to ask yourself what you find most important to YOU.
- How important is being close to family?
- What do you think about the locations of both programs?
- How important is cost (are you interested in PSLF, HPSP, or do you have familial support)?
- Where do you see yourself happiest / least stressed?
- How important is the focus on policy or access to a good MBA program?
- What do you think about the mandatory 5th year (which should be taken into consideration for cost since it is like loosing a year of attending salary, narrowing the cost difference)? This may not matter if you are planning on taking a year off regardless.

I think once you answer these questions, your choice will become more clear.

However, from my perspective, I think if you are really interested in research (CCLCM's focus), look forward to the mandatory summer research and research year, and if cost is a major factor to you, then I would pick CCLCM. If you are really interested in getting an MBA (where school prestige matters more), staying close to your family, put more emphasis on access to policy opportunities, or if the the cost difference ends up not being too much, then I would lean towards Northwestern.

 

[badger822]

Cost difference?

There's no difference in prestige here, I would just go to whichever you personally prefer. Both will get you where you want to go.

CCLCM would be significantly cheaper ( >250K) as Northwestern has yet to match the aid.

 

[badger822]

Cclcm better match list and much cheaper = no brainer

Agree - not much difference in prestige (if any), match lists both very good with slight edge to cclcm, Cclcm free = go with them.

To address a couple points specifically:

1. Cclcm likely gives you way more free time than most other schools on the country - yes attendance is required but the fact that you’re only in class a half day 4-6 days a week most weeks means that you still have more unstructured time than most med students. This becomes very clear 3rd year when you don’t have to deal with grades and can focus your energies on learning and keeping projects going.

2. You pick your thesis committee, so don’t think many people find it very stressful. If anything the type of person picking Cclcm wants to do research and puts the pressure on themselves to do a good job.

3. cclcm bills itself as all PBL no lecture but it’s really split pretty evenly. Unless you want all lecture no case-based learning (which is getting rarer given med Ed is moving to case based, and you mentioned being interested in an MBA which is often times case based it doesn’t seem like that’s the case for you) I don’t think Cclcm’s curriculum is too much.

Finally - from a stress standpoint you can’t overstate what it’s like not to have shelf exams or grades third year (get to take shelf exams for you to see the scores of only - literally just for practice). That along with no grades or tests years 1 and 2 would likely be the single largest difference in stress level in med school.

congrats on the choices, both will get you where you want to go, I just think cclcm does it in a less costly, less stressful way.

So you don't think that the US News/PD Rankings show a sizeable difference between Northwestern and CCLCM (grouped with Case)? That has been a slight concern of mine, especially with Northwestern's steady rise.

That definitely makes me feel better about the thesis committee, I was somewhat unsure of how that worked based on the explanations I had gotten during the interview day/second look.

That also makes me feel good that CCLCM's currculum isn't too intense in that regard. I like studying with others, but I also need some time by myself to process some concepts.

It also sounds much less stressful due to those factors, definitely has been a major point towards CCLCM for me. Do you think this lends to students being able to travel home on a more frequent basis (ie inbetween some blocks, not necessarily only during structured breaks)?

Thank you very much for all the provided information already!

 

[badger822]

Disclaimer: I am on waitlist at CCLCM but I am accepted elsewhere so I will try to not be too biased lol

I think you really cannot go wrong between the two schools, both will set you up well for matching whatever specialty you want. I agree with others that there is not a significant difference in prestige between the medical schools. I think when it comes to splitting hairs between excellent programs, you just have to ask yourself what you find most important to YOU.
- How important is being close to family?
- What do you think about the locations of both programs?
- How important is cost (are you interested in PSLF, HPSP, or do you have familial support)?
- Where do you see yourself happiest / least stressed?
- How important is the focus on policy or access to a good MBA program?
- What do you think about the mandatory 5th year (which should be taken into consideration for cost since it is like loosing a year of attending salary, narrowing the cost difference)? This may not matter if you are planning on taking a year off regardless.

I think once you answer these questions, your choice will become more clear.

However, from my perspective, I think if you are really interested in research (CCLCM's focus), look forward to the mandatory summer research and research year, and if cost is a major factor to you, then I would pick CCLCM. If you are really interested in getting an MBA (where school prestige matters more), staying close to your family, put more emphasis on access to policy opportunities, or if the the cost difference ends up not being too much, then I would lean towards Northwestern.

Family is definitely important to me, but I do have a relative that will be ~3 hours away if I go to CCLCM which may allow for some visits during the year.

I think I might prefer Cleveland since its a smaller city even though I am more familiar with Chicago. I'm not sure how well I would adapt to being in such a high traffic area like Chicago fulltime.

Cost is definitely a concern, and Northwestern has yet to give a definitive answer on matching (or coming close).

I think with the lack of grading at CCLCM, I would be less stressed academically. However, I have heard that there is also a lot of free time at Northwestern. I'm not sure about happiest yet since I have not been away from home for 5 straight years before, but also think it might be good to branch out (from what I've heard).

I think policy development is more important than the MBA, but I would hope that at CCLCM the less stress could help me get involved in that to some degree. I think Northwestern does take the advantage for this though overall.

I think the 5th year is a wash for me since I would be taking a 5th year at Northwestern for the MBA if I went there.

Thank you for your thoughts and any additional insight you can provide!

(Also, good luck moving forward on the WL if it is your top choice. I will keep you updated if I withdraw)

 

[wondervisions]

CCLCM would be significantly cheaper ( >250K) as Northwestern has yet to match the aid.

With that cost difference I would take CCLCM in a heartbeat and not look back.

 

[badger822]

With that cost difference I would take CCLCM in a heartbeat and not look back.

I think that's the move for now unless there's waitlist movement at my top choice!

Glad to hear that CCLCM has T20 prestige so I'm not risking residency placement.

Thanks everyone for the help!

 

[wondervisions]

I think that's the move for now unless there's waitlist movement at my top choice!

Glad to hear that CCLCM has T20 prestige so I'm not risking residency placement.

Thanks everyone for the help!

Even if CCLCM did not have T20 prestige, I would not take on 250k in debt over a full ride. Almost no medical school is worth that much risk imo.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I think that's the move for now unless there's waitlist movement at my top choice!

Glad to hear that CCLCM has T20 prestige so I'm not risking residency placement.

Thanks everyone for the help!

CCLCM is probably viewed as T10 by program directors.