Northwestern

[pierre3283]

Anybody know if they are still sending out invites?

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[McPoyle]

Yeah I have the same question about NOrthwestern and other programs where I haven't gotten an IV nor a rejection... Effin purgatory man...

 

[LoudBark]

Northwestern is a strange bird. Every year there are people that will get invites to places like Hopkin's and UCSF and Duke but .......get rejected by Northwestern. And then there will be some middle tier type candidate that applies there as a reach and they somehow get an interview there. Honestly, whoever is reviewing the apps there, must be on crack while reviewing them.

 

[disorder]

Northwestern is a strange bird. Every year there are people that will get invites to places like Hopkin's and UCSF and Duke but .......get rejected by Northwestern. And then there will be some middle tier type candidate that applies there as a reach and they somehow get an interview there. Honestly, whoever is reviewing the apps there, must be on crack while reviewing them.

Or, they interview applicants where they know there will be reciprocity in ranking.

With that said, as a middle tier applicant, send me some love!

 

[HoldTheCoffee]

NW rejected some people a while back. If you applied early and still haven't gotten rejected or invited, my guess is that you're on a waitlist for interviews. I have absolutely no proof of this though.

 

[IMvrach]

Diane Wayne was a PD, now she is an assistant PD at IM.

http://www.scholars.northwestern.edu/pubDetail.asp?t=pm&id=78751591672&n=Diane+Bronstein+Wayne&u_id=2559

The USMLE score validity argument breaks down on grounds of extrapolation and decision/interpretation because the scores are not associated with measures of clinical skill acquisition among advanced medical students, residents, and subspecialty fellows. Continued use of USMLE Step 1 and 2 scores for postgraduate medical residency selection decisions is discouraged.

Northwestern is a strange bird. Every year there are people that will get invites to places like Hopkin's and UCSF and Duke but .......get rejected by Northwestern. And then there will be some middle tier type candidate that applies there as a reach and they somehow get an interview there. Honestly, whoever is reviewing the apps there, must be on crack while reviewing them.

 

[ArcGurren]

Diane Wayne was a PD, now she is an assistant PD at IM.

http://www.scholars.northwestern.edu/pubDetail.asp?t=pm&id=78751591672&n=Diane+Bronstein+Wayne&u_id=2559

The USMLE score validity argument breaks down on grounds of extrapolation and decision/interpretation because the scores are not associated with measures of clinical skill acquisition among advanced medical students, residents, and subspecialty fellows. Continued use of USMLE Step 1 and 2 scores for postgraduate medical residency selection decisions is discouraged.

But... then what does she use? Grades? Because that's even more subjective if anything

 

[LoudBark]

Diane Wayne was a PD, now she is an assistant PD at IM.

http://www.scholars.northwestern.edu/pubDetail.asp?t=pm&id=78751591672&n=Diane+Bronstein+Wayne&u_id=2559

The USMLE score validity argument breaks down on grounds of extrapolation and decision/interpretation because the scores are not associated with measures of clinical skill acquisition among advanced medical students, residents, and subspecialty fellows. Continued use of USMLE Step 1 and 2 scores for postgraduate medical residency selection decisions is discouraged.

I believe she on purpose will reject some applicants with 240+ step scores just to make a statement. Unfortunately, she is screwing around with applicants while trying to make a point.

 

[SilverMoon]

.

 

[Iw2baDr]

Northwestern 4th year here. I can't say that I know how NW selects candidates for interviews, but I will say that what they are doing works. The IM residents I have worked with have been outstanding across the board. The motto has always been that they want residents that are nice, hard working and smart - in that order. It's been very true in my experience. If that is any indication, then it would support the argument that they put less weight on things like USMLE scores.

In regards to the article referenced above, I agree with the findings. There is a saying that test scores are only predictive of how you will do on your next test. There are phenomenal doctors that are not great test takers and vice versa.

I hope you get your interview soon. I imagine that spots will be opening up soon if they haven't already.

 

[Bill Swa]

Northwestern 4th year here. I can't say that I know how NW selects candidates for interviews, but I will say that what they are doing works. The IM residents I have worked with have been outstanding across the board. The motto has always been that they want residents that are nice, hard working and smart - in that order. It's been very true in my experience. If that is any indication, then it would support the argument that they put less weight on things like USMLE scores.

In regards to the article referenced above, I agree with the findings. There is a saying that test scores are only predictive of how you will do on your next test. There are phenomenal doctors that are not great test takers and vice versa.

I hope you get your interview soon. I imagine that spots will be opening up soon if they haven't already.

It sounds like nice/hard working correlate with 3rd year grades. Smart, sorry, but that can only be correlated with boards / AOA. Really hard to wrap you head around some of the rejections. Especially when offers from better places have been handed out.

Someone told me they love people that have something outside of medicine that is interesting. Either, speak another language (Spanish), have done something outstanding in another field, or have done something cool that has nothing to do with medicine.

 

[disorder]

It sounds like nice/hard working correlate with 3rd year grades. Smart, sorry, but that can only be correlated with boards / AOA. Really hard to wrap you head around some of the rejections. Especially when offers from better places have been handed out.

say what?

 

[ArcGurren]

It sounds like nice/hard working correlate with 3rd year grades. Smart, sorry, but that can only be correlated with boards / AOA. Really hard to wrap you head around some of the rejections. Especially when offers from better places have been handed out.

Someone told me they love people that have something outside of medicine that is interesting. Either, speak another language (Spanish), have done something outstanding in another field, or have done something cool that has nothing to do with medicine.

None of which is predictive of being a good resident or having prowess in clinical skill...

 

[Retro Virus]

Maybe Northwestern has adopted an unorthodox selection method because they get a disproportionate number of entitled applicants....

 

[HoldTheCoffee]

Haha, am I the only person who got turned down by NW but still has a lot of respect for the institution and as well as my colleagues who did manage to get invites?

Joking, sorta. I get that many people feel burned for getting turned down but some of you have invites at other amazing places. You should take what you can get!

 

[kjamess]

I doubt there is some sort of conspiracy against those with high grades/scores going on here. There are plenty of people with competitive scores receiving invites as evidenced by the interview thread. Bottom line, its hard to win them all.

 

[sunset823]

Maybe Northwestern has adopted an unorthodox selection method because they get a disproportionate number of entitled applicants....

I can say I am a very average Jane applicant, nothing up to SDN standards, and I'm still in purgatory for NW. I don't expect to ever receive an invite, but I guess the fact I've not been rejected yet should be flattering? lol I do have an interesting non-medical background tho..

And yes, to those who are getting MGH, UCSF but were rejected at NW, you can't win them all folks. It's kind of annoying that you expect 100% of your top tier invites just cuz you got your 260/AOA, etc. Nobody gets 100% of anything, I have a friend who's applying path with ridiculously good #s and even he's not hit that yet. 90%, but not 100%. And IM is much more competitive, esp at the top tier.

 

[ArcGurren]

I can say I am a very average Jane applicant, nothing up to SDN standards, and I'm still in purgatory for NW. I don't expect to ever receive an invite, but I guess the fact I've not been rejected yet should be flattering? lol I do have an interesting non-medical background tho..

And yes, to those who are getting MGH, UCSF but were rejected at NW, you can't win them all folks. It's kind of annoying that you expect 100% of your top tier invites just cuz you got your 260/AOA, etc. Nobody gets 100% of anything, I have a friend who's applying path with ridiculously good #s and even he's not hit that yet. 90%, but not 100%. And IM is much more competitive, esp at the top tier.

Nobody's annoyed or entitled. We're just saying there doesn't appear to be a consistent metric to the way NW seems to invite folks.

 

[disorder]

rejected today. good luck to the rest of you applying to NW in this seemingly "random" process.

 

[McPoyle]

yup... no longer in purgatory, got the rejection today. Ah well... g'luck to those who are interviewing there!

 

[icaruswalks]

rejected. ouch. i really liked Northwestern, and my advisor said I had a good shot too, lots of ECs and such. oh well. i won't hate on Northwestern, i think they're a great program.

 

[MediKate]

Another one bites the dust. Rejected today. I was more interested in their fellowship options than their IM residency, so will try again in 3 years! Best of luck to all of you who did get interviews.

 

[tallash]

Northwestern is a strange bird. Every year there are people that will get invites to places like Hopkin's and UCSF and Duke but .......get rejected by Northwestern. And then there will be some middle tier type candidate that applies there as a reach and they somehow get an interview there. Honestly, whoever is reviewing the apps there, must be on crack while reviewing them.

This + the reciprocity statement. I was rejected by NW on the same day I received an Osler interview last year, as were a bunch of my friends. Bottom line, NW, like any program, is going to chase the applicants who will likely rank the program highly.

 

[laconfidential]

Think it means anything if we haven't been rejected yet? I kinda wanna call but I don't really want a rejection over the phone!

 

[Hollycat]

This + the reciprocity statement. I was rejected by NW on the same day I received an Osler interview last year, as were a bunch of my friends. Bottom line, NW, like any program, is going to chase the applicants who will likely rank the program highly.

Tallash, what's the reciprocity statement? Do programs have a policy of sharing information about who they are interviewing- I've never heard this, and it would be interesting to know.

 

[atengnr]

Hey, I got rejected a long while back, with AOA, step 1 256 and step 2 281. I dont know what I did to ruffle their feathers, but clearly they dont like me for some reason.

 

[ArcGurren]

Hey, I got rejected a long while back, with AOA, step 1 256 and step 2 281. I dont know what I did to ruffle their feathers, but clearly they dont like me for some reason.

281? Holy hell, that's impressive assuming it's not a typo

I guess it seems to be one of those residencies which looks for other things in their applicants

 

[atengnr]

281? Holy hell, that's impressive assuming it's not a typo

I guess it seems to be one of those residencies which looks for other things in their applicants

Haha, I thought the score was a typo when I received it from USMLE as well

 

[tallash]

Sorry for the delay, Hollycat - by reciprocity I mean that NW, like any program worth its salt, monitors the "average" profile who actually ends up matching to its program. There was a PDF floating around a few years ago with the average Step scores, % of AOA members, etc. per residency at NW, along with comments from the admins regarding why they weren't attracting "better" applicants to their fellowships, etc. Ironically enough, this was right around the time the PD's paper on Step scores and their value (or lack thereof) of predicting residency performance was released. Maybe someone would be kind enough to provide a link to the PDF (and the PD's paper) for sake of comparison...

Suffice it to say the average Step 1 of a NW IM resident was well below atengnr's type of mark (he/she would more closely match their ENT resident profile). Not knocking NW or anything - but they know that people with those types of scores, unless they have some tie to the Midwest, generally aren't going to have NW at the top of their rank lists come February. It's smart on their part and spares the admin from defending why they went so low on their rank list.

Case in point - see the multiple rankings threads, "this is my rank list, please comment" threads, academic reputation threads, etc. People, fairly or not, often guide their residency decisions based on those types of things than they do shimmering facilities or a pristine location.

 

[CanIMakeIt]

Sorry for the delay, Hollycat - by reciprocity I mean that NW, like any program worth its salt, monitors the "average" profile who actually ends up matching to its program. There was a PDF floating around a few years ago with the average Step scores, % of AOA members, etc. per residency at NW, along with comments from the admins regarding why they weren't attracting "better" applicants to their fellowships, etc. Ironically enough, this was right around the time the PD's paper on Step scores and their value (or lack thereof) of predicting residency performance was released. Maybe someone would be kind enough to provide a link to the PDF (and the PD's paper) for sake of comparison...

Suffice it to say the average Step 1 of a NW IM resident was well below atengnr's type of mark (he/she would more closely match their ENT resident profile). Not knocking NW or anything - but they know that people with those types of scores, unless they have some tie to the Midwest, generally aren't going to have NW at the top of their rank lists come February. It's smart on their part and spares the admin from defending why they went so low on their rank list.

Case in point - see the multiple rankings threads, "this is my rank list, please comment" threads, academic reputation threads, etc. People, fairly or not, often guide their residency decisions based on those types of things than they do shimmering facilities or a pristine location.

Most programs keep a running track of their "average" matched candidate and try to invite more people from that population - that doesn't mean that higher or lower scores are not invited - they are, but it all falls under a bell curve. Some below average, some above average, and most people within the program's average profile.

 

[ukdoc74]

One thing I never considered as a med student is pedigree.

Where one went to med school and even undergrad influences whether one gets an interview at the elite programs.

That's why I tell my premed mentees, go to the best medical school possible because it has the potential to open more doors later.

A northwestern IM program will give an average applicant from university of Chicago an interview over an AOA, USMLE of 260+ from Chicago medical school.

Pedigree matters to the top programs.

 

[ukdoc74]

BTW, this notion that Northwestern doesn't invite people from outside of the Midwest for interviews because they will go other places is hilarious.

Chicago is one of the most livable cities among the elite IM programs in the country. They can be choosy.

 

[atengnr]

One thing I never considered as a med student is pedigree.

Where one went to med school and even undergrad influences whether one gets an interview at the elite programs.

That's why I tell my premed mentees, go to the best medical school possible because it has the potential to open more doors later.

A northwestern IM program will give an average applicant from university of Chicago an interview over an AOA, USMLE of 260+ from Chicago medical school.

Pedigree matters to the top programs.

Agreed, though in my case, I have a friend from class with essentially the same app, as far as school, board scores (excluding step 2) and class grades, who got an invite there, and other places in NWs caliber. One thing I have on my record which may be the reason I have underperformed is a DUI from 2002. Can anyone attest to what impact this would have?? I have no other clues otherwise.

 

[aznb0y129]

Agreed, though in my case, I have a friend from class with essentially the same app, as far as school, board scores (excluding step 2) and class grades, who got an invite there, and other places in NWs caliber. One thing I have on my record which may be the reason I have underperformed is a DUI from 2002. Can anyone attest to what impact this would have?? I have no other clues otherwise.

I feel like a DUI would be a big red flag to many programs, regardless of how elite they are.

 

[thierryhenry]

yeah bro DUI aint good for anything