Not accepted because you were too good for the school? Is that possible?

[medschool2016]

Now, would that be a case for a medical school if they see that you are clearly more above average than their typical accepted student? The only reason I ask is because now colleges do this (WashU for one) where they waitlist really well qualified kids who end up getting into Harvard, Yale. Do medical schools employ this tactic so that their numbers look good?

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[ozzi22]

Maybe they just aren't a good fit for the school despite the numbers

 

[iceman132]

Now, would that be a case for a medical school if they see that you are clearly more above average than their typical accepted student? The only reason I ask is because now colleges do this (WashU for one) where they waitlist really well qualified kids who end up getting into Harvard, Yale. Do medical schools employ this tactic so that their numbers look good?

Some people just have a terrible interview with that one school.

Lots of factors can go into it

 

[Decicco]

They definitely do. Georgetown does this like it's their job (they waitlist or reject almost everyone). It all has to do with the influence of the USNews rankings--they don't want anyone to reject them, they want to do the rejecting. If your numbers are too good for a school, that doesn't mean you can't go there, it just means that you will have to work extra hard to show that school that it is your top choice despite the fact that you will probably get into "higher ranked" schools.

Also, state schools won't play this game, whether or not they are top schools.

 

[Tapepsi]

I don't think it happens often (at least for the majority of schools). I think maybe some people go in with the idea that the acceptance is a given since their stats are above the school's average and underestimate the importance of the interview. Some schools weigh the interview portion of your app as much as 30% so it's definitely a big deal.

So imo as long as you are a good fit for a school and you emphasize that you are backed up with support (your EC's, research, etc...) then you should be able to get an acceptance despite having stellar stats.

 

[medschool2016]

So when you guys say "good fit," what do you mean (other than the GPA/MCATs)?

 

[chronicidal]

It all has to do with the influence of the USNews rankings--they don't want anyone to reject them, they want to do the rejecting.

Acceptance rate is 1% of the research ranking, 0.75% of the primary care ranking. Any school that does this because of rankings is deluded.

 

[medschool2016]

oops

 

[mauberley]

So when you guys say "good fit," what do you mean (other than the GPA/MCATs)?

Harmony of goals (do your career interests align with the mission of the school?), personality (what characteristics are they hoping to cultivate in the student body), life experiences (with respect to diversity), among other things.

 

[iceman132]

So when you guys say "good fit," what do you mean (other than the GPA/MCATs)?

I heard of one guy who had an excellent gpa/mcat that got rejected from a lower tier school because they said he didn't seem like a doctor "type" after the interview.

A higher tier accepted him though.

 

[n3xa]

harmony of goals (do your career interests align with the mission of the school?), personality (what characteristics are they hoping to cultivate in the student body), life experiences (with respect to diversity), among other things.

no havard no care maubs gosh

 

[medschool2016]

See here is my follow up question then. Don't 99% of medical schools have similar goals/want the same sort of diverse group of students then?

 

[Tapepsi]

So when you guys say "good fit," what do you mean (other than the GPA/MCATs)?

Being a good fit for a school has nothing to do with numbers. When you start interviewing, you'll realize that med schools greatly differ from one another in a lot of aspects. Some schools are looking for students who want to go into primary care, others want students who want to pursue research opportunities. Some schools' curriculums are mostly PBL, others are mostly lectured based. Community service may be a big emphasis at some schools, whereas others may not emphasize it at all. Examples like that.

Basically, they want you to assure them that you would be happy going to that school and that you would excel in that environment. The last thing they want is a med student to fail or drop out b/c they weren't a good fit.

 

[iceman132]

See here is my follow up question then. Don't 99% of medical schools have similar goals/want the same sort of diverse group of students then?

Different schools have different goals.

I don't know exactly what you mean by "diverse" but my state mainly wants med school students who are interested in primary care in rural areas.

 

[mauberley]

See here is my follow up question then. Don't 99% of medical schools have similar goals/want the same sort of diverse group of students then?

No. Rather than list off examples, I will recommend you read the MSAR to get an idea of the different missions and admissions criteria for the various medical schools.

 

[mauberley]

no havard no care maubs gosh

*snicker*.

 

[chronicidal]

Some schools are looking for students who want to go into primary care, others want students who want to pursue research opportunities. Some schools' curriculums are mostly PBL, others are mostly lectured based. Community service may be a big emphasis at some schools, whereas others may not emphasize it at all.

Do interviews discuss PBL vs lecture? How are most applicants supposed to know which format they like if they've never had PBL?

A lot of people talk about 'fit' even when the schools they're considering are very similar in the service and research regards. This I don't understand. All the schools I'm considering have accepted student profiles in the MSAR of 65-83% having done community service and 85-98% having done research.

What is 'fit' for UChicago, for instance, that is not fit for Northwestern?

 

[senorsquishie]

Heads up, from what you said in previous threads this comes off as very arrogant. 👎

Let me say this, good numbers will never get you rejected. A bad fit, bad attitude/interview, or weak non-numerical portion of your application can. Focus on being the best applicant you can be and then you will have no worries.

 

[chronicidal]

Heads up, from what you said in previous threads this comes off as very arrogant. 👎

Who?

 

[TriagePreMed]

The average at almost any school you apply to in the US is ~3.7 with a ~30 MCAT. I don't think many schools will reject because there's such a thing as a student who has "too high numbers."

 

[senorsquishie]

Who?

The OP

 

[ozzi22]

The average at almost any school you apply to in the US is ~3.7 with a ~30 MCAT. I don't think many schools will reject because there's such a thing as a student who has "too high numbers."

+1👍

 

[FattySlug]

Do interviews discuss PBL vs lecture? How are most applicants supposed to know which format they like if they've never had PBL?

A lot of people talk about 'fit' even when the schools they're considering are very similar in the service and research regards. This I don't understand. All the schools I'm considering have accepted student profiles in the MSAR of 65-83% having done community service and 85-98% having done research.

What is 'fit' for UChicago, for instance, that is not fit for Northwestern?

Good question. I would like to know this as well. All mission statements sound roughly the same. What do you look for when reading those? How do you know you fit beyond the numbers? The only thing I am able to use to pick my schools is accepted stats and location.

 

[tehdude]

When I applied, I was only rejected by my safety school. It was pre-secondary, too. All of my stats were light-years ahead of their averages, so I contacted them to try to find out why I was rejected. They only told me that they don't share why the decisions are made and that they select students who they think will be a good fit for their program. So does that mean I was too good for their school? Who knows?! It seems like a crapshoot sometimes.

 

[Whatyousay]

Now when I get rejected from Harvard, I'm going to tell people it's because I was too good for them.

 

[senorsquishie]

Now when I get rejected from Harvard, I'm going to tell people it's because I was too good for them.

roflmao 🤣

...I may do this

 

[Tapepsi]

Do interviews discuss PBL vs lecture? How are most applicants supposed to know which format they like if they've never had PBL?

A lot of people talk about 'fit' even when the schools they're considering are very similar in the service and research regards. This I don't understand. All the schools I'm considering have accepted student profiles in the MSAR of 65-83% having done community service and 85-98% having done research.

What is 'fit' for UChicago, for instance, that is not fit for Northwestern?

Yes at all of the interviews I went to they gave me an overview of their curriculum, and if they had PBL, they would discuss it. And while you may never have had PBL, schools who heavily incorporate it into their curriculum will have expected you to research it and prove to them with examples as to how that type of learning would be best for you. Also I think you misunderstood what I meant by community service and research. Yes most students have done research before medical school, what I meant was, they consider if you are interested in pursuing research during medical school. Some schools (like the one I'm going to) requires you to do a research project, others have limited spots for students.

And to answer your question, while that is an example of two schools that have similar missions and goals, if you go to both websites I'm sure you will be able to find differences between them that could have an impact on your education. And while a student who goes to UChicago would most likely be a good fit for the Northwestern, the point is for you to tell UChicago why they're a better fit for you than Northwestern (or any other school for that matter. Schools like to feel "special")

Fatty Slug: Make sure to look at more than just schools' mission statements as they are all very broad and vague which makes them sound similar to one another. Research the schools that you're interested in by visiting their websites. It can help to ask a student on here for feedback also.

 

[medschool2016]

Thanks tehdude and tapepesi, ya...I think the process is all very confusing/hard because all schools have similar average GPA/MCATs...so its hard to see what they are looking for

 

[WorldChanger36]

As people have been saying schools can and do reject applicants that don't fit. They don't reject people that are "too good" for the school though. I think what you are trying to understand is the trend alot of people see when a person applies to a lot of mid tier school with a 3.9 and a 34 MCAT and they get tons of waitlists and maybe one acceptance. Well if you haven't figured it out by now GPA and MCAT score do contribute to a school's fit. Consider the average accepted GPA into an MD school is a 3.6 and the average MCAT is a 32, schools expect people to have done their homework and should know what schools lean into what ranges. Also keep in mind that interview and reviewing applications is an expencive and time consuming endevor for schools. They want to accept the person that will matriculate into their school as this is the most effective use of resourses. So a person with a 3.9 GPA will not be taken as an applicant that will most likely matriculate at mid-tier schools if they get accepted else where like an upper tier or their state school. Therefore schools take a watch and wait position to see if the person really wants to go there by delaying interview invites or waitlisting the person after an interview. People may buy into the lie that getting into medical school is random but in reality it is a calculated risk analsys. It is wise to have a broad application that applys to schools across all tiers; Upper tier, like WashU and Columbia, Mid-tier and DO, like SLU and Albany and PCOM and New schools, like FAU, Vtech and others. Of course a person should lean their apps in different directions based on grades, score, experences and interests. A person above the mean should lean their apps more towards Upper tier while those below should lean their apps toward mid-tier and new schools. Of course very few people apply this way and apply mostly based on interests and perceved ease of entry.

 

[mauberley]

Fatty Slug: Make sure to look at more than just schools' mission statements as they are all very broad and vague which makes them sound similar to one another. Research the schools that you're interested in by visiting their websites. It can help to ask a student on here for feedback also.

It could be that I've read too many mission statements, but after awhile you learn to be able to distinguish between them. 🙂 But I definitely agree to look beyond them.

 

[snickydoody]

Great post 🙂 To build on some points Tapepsi already made, when researching schools, it's important to look into the programs they offer and the qualities that the schools seem to focus on when marketing themselves to applicants - e.g. do they pride themselves on their clinical emphasis? research activity? production of the future leaders and innovators in health care? Are they particularly interested in serving a particular community or patient population? Often, once I did this and confirmed that feel during interviews, I had a decent idea about whether the school and I were a good "fit."

If you happen to already have interests in specific specialties, that would definitely also be something to consider when looking into schools; many schools may boast strengths in particular areas of medicine, which means potentially more research opportunities and/or variety of clinical experiences in those areas.

Yes at all of the interviews I went to they gave me an overview of their curriculum, and if they had PBL, they would discuss it. And while you may never have had PBL, schools who heavily incorporate it into their curriculum will have expected you to research it and prove to them with examples as to how that type of learning would be best for you. Also I think you misunderstood what I meant by community service and research. Yes most students have done research before medical school, what I meant was, they consider if you are interested in pursuing research during medical school. Some schools (like the one I'm going to) requires you to do a research project, others have limited spots for students.

And to answer your question, while that is an example of two schools that have similar missions and goals, if you go to both websites I'm sure you will be able to find differences between them that could have an impact on your education. And while a student who goes to UChicago would most likely be a good fit for the Northwestern, the point is for you to tell UChicago why they're a better fit for you than Northwestern (or any other school for that matter. Schools like to feel "special")

Fatty Slug: Make sure to look at more than just schools' mission statements as they are all very broad and vague which makes them sound similar to one another. Research the schools that you're interested in by visiting their websites. It can help to ask a student on here for feedback also.

 

[n3xa]

*snicker*.

The dean at a particular Chicagoland medical school compares the application process to online dating. Everyone has their personal preferences.

I remember asking one student why they chose that particular school, and the person looked at me like I had three boobs and said, "Because it's ________."

n3xa don't play that.

 

[phltz]

I applied to ten schools this past cycle. My application is pretty awesome in some ways, but also very flawed in others, so it may not be the best example. Nonetheless, of the 5 schools I applied to that are in the top 10 according to US News, I got 3 interviews. Of the 3 schools I applied to ranked 11-50, I got 1 interview (which was Mayo, and belongs in the top 10 as far as I'm concerned). Of the 2 schools I applied to ranked below 50, I got 1 interview.

So I had slightly better luck in getting an interview at the top schools. Why didn't I get invited for interviews at some of the lower ranked schools? It's hard to say. Lack of fit? Maybe, sure. Concerns that I may be too good for them? I suppose that's possible too. The whole process is maddeningly opaque.

 

[rhesuspieces]

I absolutely don't think people get rejected from "low-tier" schools because they are "too good." From what I've seen, there are three main reasons a low-tier school will reject a high stats applicant:

1. The applicant is clearly disinterested--e.g. secondary essays are weak, goals outlined in PS don't fit with the type of student a schools tends to accept (see #2), etc.

2. The school's mission is not a fit with the student's profile. For example, a school that heavily emphasizes community service will not accept a student who has 2,000 research hours and 50 volunteering hours. A school that churns out rural, primary care physicians will not want a student who has never shown any interest in that type of medicine.

3. The school is a "safety" school that 12,000 people apply to each year. Think BU and Georgetown. This is the only instance in which high stats may be a slight disadvantage; obviously the volume of applicants to these schools are high enough that if they wanted their average MCAT to be 35, it would be. However, if you're truly and outstanding applicant that's a good fit for the school, you aren't going to be weeded out because you're too awesome.

 

[FattySlug]

On the same discussion. Would school hold it against you for using their school as "back up"? What if somebody who has 3.8 and 35 applying for Loma Linda for ex. Would they ask you question like: so how far down are we in your list of schools? I would just tell every school they are my number one

 

[Swiss Medical]

Oh absolutely. I know several students who have applied to lower-tier schools (i.e. Howard, Meharry) with very high credentials, but were REJECTED. They were actually notified by an admissions member explaining their swift rejection. It turned out that they did not fit the mission of the school. Both schools were established to provide adequate healthcare and increase the role of underrepresented minorities in medicine. I would say that these applicants were just looking for safeties to land on...

 

[NickNaylor]

I absolutely don't think people get rejected from "low-tier" schools because they are "too good." From what I've seen, there are three main reasons a low-tier school will reject a high stats applicant:

1. The applicant is clearly disinterested--e.g. secondary essays are weak, goals outlined in PS don't fit with the type of student a schools tends to accept (see #2), etc.

2. The school's mission is not a fit with the student's profile. For example, a school that heavily emphasizes community service will not accept a student who has 2,000 research hours and 50 volunteering hours. A school that churns out rural, primary care physicians will not want a student who has never shown any interest in that type of medicine.

3. The school is a "safety" school that 12,000 people apply to each year. Think BU and Georgetown. This is the only instance in which high stats may be a slight disadvantage; obviously the volume of applicants to these schools are high enough that if they wanted their average MCAT to be 35, it would be. However, if you're truly and outstanding applicant that's a good fit for the school, you aren't going to be weeded out because you're too awesome.

I agree with this 100%. I think people make excuses for why they get rejected to supposed "safety schools," and the best thing they can come up with is that their stats are "too high" and the schools know that they "wouldn't want to go there."

Please.

 

[FattySlug]

. Both schools were established to provide adequate healthcare and increase the role of underrepresented minorities in medicine. I would say that these applicants were just looking for safeties to land on...

That sounds a little racist tbh. They obviously can't be rejected because the schools want to provide "adequate healthcare" so it must be because they want to increase the role of "underrepresented minorities in medicine."

 

[Swiss Medical]

That sounds a little racist tbh. They obviously can't be rejected because the schools want to provide "adequate healthcare" so it must be because they want to increase the role of "underrepresented minorities in medicine."

Well, that's what those schools are for. Kinda of like Mount Sinai, Albert Einstein Yeshiva, or Loma Linda. You cannot get accepted to those schools without showing some sort of religious value....

 

[NickNaylor]

On the same discussion. Would school hold it against you for using their school as "back up"? What if somebody who has 3.8 and 35 applying for Loma Linda for ex. Would they ask you question like: so how far down are we in your list of schools? I would just tell every school they are my number one

When you're asked "why us?" (likely at the interview), you have to have a very good answer or a school will almost certainly reject you. This is true of any applicant, regardless of whether your stats are higher, on par, or lower than a school's averages.

With regard to the discussion on HBCs (historically black colleges), I don't think what Swiss is saying is racist at all. These schools have a very specific mission: to train physicians to serve minorities. Right or wrong, minorities are more likely to serve minorities than whites. It's really no different than Harvard rejecting someone who has no interest in research - their mission is to produce scientists that will discover tomorrow's treatments. If you just want to set up your practice in a small suburban town that's fine, but you're not the kind of applicant they're looking for. This applies to every school and is why it's pretty much impossible to get accepted to every school you apply to unless you're an absolutely amazing applicant or share little fibs during your interviews.

 

[FattySlug]

When you're asked "why us?" (likely at the interview), you have to have a very good answer or a school will almost certainly reject you. This is true of any applicant, regardless of whether your stats are higher, on par, or lower than a school's averages.

With regard to the discussion on HBCs (historically black colleges), I don't think what Swiss is saying is racist at all.

How did you answer those "why us" questions? I looked at mission statements, and things they have on their website but other than a few (like research giant Havard) the rest all sound vaguely the same: research, patient care and community service. How did you decide that one school is fit for you? So far I could only use numbers and locations which I know is not the best way but I have a hard time looking for other factors.

I wasn't aware that the schools in discussions were HBC. If that the case it is not racist since they pick students based on how likely they will serve the black community.

 

[NickNaylor]

How did you answer those "why us" questions? I looked at mission statements, and things they have on their website but other than a few (like research giant Havard) the rest all sound vaguely the same: research, patient care and community service. How did you decide that one school is fit for you? So far I could only use numbers and locations which I know is not the best way but I have a hard time looking for other factors.

I wasn't aware that the schools in discussions were HBC. If that the case it is not racist since they pick students based on how likely they will serve the black community.

That, my friend, is a very difficult question, and unfortunately there's a ton of uncertainty. The best I could do was look around on the school's website and try and learn as much as I can about it. You'll also get a better feel for it during the interview day. Really, though, the best way to make sure that you're at a school that will "fit" you well is to be honest about who you are and not turn the admissions process into a game that you're trying to win. If you're real with yourself, you'll be accepted to the schools at which you're expected to be a good fit.

 

[mauberley]

How did you answer those "why us" questions? I looked at mission statements, and things they have on their website but other than a few (like research giant Havard) the rest all sound vaguely the same: research, patient care and community service. How did you decide that one school is fit for you? So far I could only use numbers and locations which I know is not the best way but I have a hard time looking for other factors.

Some things to consider/look for more information: clinical vs research focus, curriculum format (traditional, PBL, system-based, block scheduling), sites at which one does clerkships/rotations, academic support mechanisms in place (tutors, study sessions, etc.)...

 

[rhesuspieces]

Well, that's what those schools are for. Kinda of like Mount Sinai, Albert Einstein Yeshiva, or Loma Linda. You cannot get accepted to those schools without showing some sort of religious value....

What? You do realize that those two are not religiously-oriented medical schools, right?

 

[alwaysaangel]

What? You do realize that those two are not religiously-oriented medical schools, right?

Not as strongly anymore, but both schools were originally Jewish hospitals. Their names are suggestive of this, and Albert Einstein's cafeteria is Kosher (eg you cannot request cheese on your turkey sandwich). People who work there can request the Sabbath off.

They are very Jewish hospitals/med schools. Sure they take lots of non Jewish applicants, but they are still grounded in Jewish principles.

 

[rhesuspieces]

Not as strongly anymore, but both schools were originally Jewish hospitals. Their names are suggestive of this, and Albert Einstein's cafeteria is Kosher (eg you cannot request cheese on your turkey sandwich). People who work there can request the Sabbath off.

They are very Jewish hospitals/med schools. Sure they take lots of non Jewish applicants, but they are still grounded in Jewish principles.

But unlike Loma Linda and its preference for LDS students, neither of those schools have a preference for Jewish applicants or even promote themselves as a Jewish school. The only Jewish thing about Sinai is the elevator that stops on every floor on the Sabbath, but that's just a common thing in NYC in general. It's a mistake to group those schools with a school like Loma Linda.

 

[Swiss Medical]

Yay, I win rhesus. I am certified like the USDA....ahah

 

[medschool2016]

also, can schools see what other schools you applied for? I recently was going through my AMCAS and did the print application to see how everything would be organize. I can see on the very last page all the schools I selected, but is that the same form the admission office will see?

 

[senorsquishie]

also, can schools see what other schools you applied for? I recently was going through my AMCAS and did the print application to see how everything would be organize. I can see on the very last page all the schools I selected, but is that the same form the admission office will see?

I just told you the beauty of the search button in your other thread. This question have come up 2-3 times in the last week...

 

[medschool2016]

wow competitive premeds are harsh, I just made an account yesterday and decided to ask some questions. Didn't know I would be getting my head bite off left and right.