Not all unfunded PsyD programs are easy to get into -- so much misinformation on these boards.

[R. Matey]

Not that it functions differently, moreso that those grad programs may admit a wider variability of scores. Granted, I don't know the data on those other grad specialties, and am just relying on anecdotal observation, so very willing to change my views in light of the actual data.

For sure, the problem with drawing conclusions just from metas is that it might miss some of that variability when effects are combined.

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[smalltownpsych]

I'd say we're probably arguing about a restriction of range problem here. Similar to GPA. At most decent programs, at least in clinical psych, you're probably looking at 3.5+ GPAs and 80%+ GREs. When people are already in the 80%+, small differences either way probably are not all that predictive of anything. Now, let's take a group with a 2.5 college GPA and <30th% GREs and compare them to the 3.5+GPA and 75th% plus group. I'd imagine some of our outcomes would be a little more stark there.

That is exactly what I was thinking about yesterday when reading the posts yesterday. Whenever I hear about wanting to get rid of standardized testing, I think of this dynamic. In other words, often we are asking the wrong question when looking at whether or not it predicts outcomes when perhaps we should be looking at whether or not there should be minimum cutoffs and if that makes sense. I also think that there is another factor that people who would have lower scores are less likely to be taking the test in the first place. In other words, people who aren’t good at something are less likely to try although watching some of the American Idol tryouts, maybe that is an erroneous assumption on my part.

 

[cara susanna]

I was the opposite. My GPA was fine, but my V/AW GRE was in 95 percentile for both clinical and counseling. It played a role in assistantship funding and scholarships for me.

My verbal was in the 94th percentile or something like that, and my quant was waaay lower, I believe something in the 40s. With my awesome verbal score I had over 1200 combined. Still, I am positive that my quant hurt me at some programs, even though I only applied to programs that didn't specify a cutoff. I even did tutoring and that was the best quant I could get.

I just realized I don't even remember what my AW score was, haha. I THINK it was a 4.5? Don't remember the percentile at all.

 

[WisNeuro]

My verbal was in the 94th percentile or something like that, and my quant was waaay lower, I believe something in the 40s. With my awesome verbal score I had over 1200 combined. Still, I am positive that my quant hurt me at some programs, even though I only applied to programs that didn't specify a cutoff. I even did tutoring and that was the best quant I could get.

I just realized I don't even remember what my AW score was, haha. I THINK it was a 4.5? Don't remember the percentile at all.

We always weighted the Verbal much higher than the Quant with admissions.

 

[R. Matey]

My verbal was in the 94th percentile or something like that, and my quant was waaay lower, I believe something in the 40s. With my awesome verbal score I had over 1200 combined. Still, I am positive that my quant hurt me at some programs, even though I only applied to programs that didn't specify a cutoff. I even did tutoring and that was the best quant I could get.

I just realized I don't even remember what my AW score was, haha. I THINK it was a 4.5? Don't remember the percentile at all.

Sounds like we had a similar profile then. My quant was right around the average for clinical/counseling at the time.

 

[Dazen]

I was the opposite. My GPA was fine, but my V/AW GRE was in 95 percentile for both clinical and counseling. It played a role in assistantship funding and scholarships for me.

This was more towards my experience. I had a GPA just under 3.5, but was in the 95th+ percentile generally on V/M. I don’t remember my AW. I applied the year that programs were transitioning away from the GRE and am really curious how my interview landscape might have changed if my scores were considered (although I still think my lack of psych background would have been a difficult sell to some PIs).

 

[The Cinnabon]

I absolutely sucked at the GRE and do wonder how my application process might have differed if it weren't required by anyone.

I have the inverse thought right now. I'm going to be entering a program I'm happy with, but I was scoring well on my practice GREs and elected not to take it on pretty short notice (it's an expensive test). I do wonder if that could have opened up the door at slightly more competitive programs or gotten me additional funding?

 

[MCParent]

I have the inverse thought right now. I'm going to be entering a program I'm happy with, but I was scoring well on my practice GREs and elected not to take it on pretty short notice (it's an expensive test). I do wonder if that could have opened up the door at slightly more competitive programs or gotten me additional funding?

I think my 1450 GREs helped me, my gpa was meh (3.4; terrible first year but the last two, including graduate level classes in social health and neuro, were As).
But I also got turned down by a backup and anecdotes aren’t data so YMMV

 

[Dazen]

I think my 1450 GREs helped me, my gpa was meh (3.4; terrible first year but the last two, including graduate level classes in social health and neuro, were As).
But I also got turned down by a backup and anecdotes aren’t data so YMMV

The GRE used to be scored on the same scale as the SAT?? Wild. I got a 334/340 when I took it and got to miss a full day of my crappy finance job, so it was basically the only weekday I was able to explore NYC in over a year of living there.

 

[MCParent]

The GRE used to be scored on the same scale as the SAT?? Wild. I got a 334/340 when I took it and got to miss a full day of my crappy finance job, so it was basically the only weekday I was able to explore NYC in over a year of living there.

That was back in the day when the onscreen calculator was an abacus

 

[R. Matey]

 

[Sanman]

My verbal was in the 94th percentile or something like that, and my quant was waaay lower, I believe something in the 40s. With my awesome verbal score I had over 1200 combined. Still, I am positive that my quant hurt me at some programs, even though I only applied to programs that didn't specify a cutoff. I even did tutoring and that was the best quant I could get.

I just realized I don't even remember what my AW score was, haha. I THINK it was a 4.5? Don't remember the percentile at all.

I recall the quantitative section of the GRE had highly skewed percentiles from all the STEM folks that scored very high. My raw scores were fairly similar, but my verbal percentile was way higher.

 

[Sanman]

My verbal was in the 94th percentile or something like that, and my quant was waaay lower, I believe something in the 40s. With my awesome verbal score I had over 1200 combined. Still, I am positive that my quant hurt me at some programs, even though I only applied to programs that didn't specify a cutoff. I even did tutoring and that was the best quant I could get.

I just realized I don't even remember what my AW score was, haha. I THINK it was a 4.5? Don't remember the percentile at all.

I think my 1450 GREs helped me, my gpa was meh (3.4; terrible first year but the last two, including graduate level classes in social health and neuro, were As).
But I also got turned down by a backup and anecdotes aren’t data so YMMV

How do you guys even remember your scores? I would have to find the score report. All I remember was being above the average for my grad program. Must be the dementia creeping in...

 

[MCParent]

How do you guys even remember your scores? I would have to find the score report. All I remember was being above the average for my grad program.must be the dementia creeping in...

At least when I applied, it was still a pretty big deal. Heck, I even did the subject gre (idk what I got on that).

 

[The Cinnabon]

I recall the quantitative section of the GRE had highly skewed percentiles from all the STEM folks that scored very high. My raw scores were fairly similar, but my verbal percentile was way higher.

Can't speak beyond just taking practice tests, but I found the verbal section to be much harder because of the damn vocab questions. My predicted verbal sub score was looking like a 70th percentile while quant was projected to be 95th percentile+.

I'm very glad I didn't need to buy those stupid vocab cards my own PIs went on about, back in their day.

 

[NewNeuroDemic]

And many of us did things like put in several years of volunteer lab work, learning several coding languages, become proficient at DOS batch coding for old EEG systems, and earned research productivity to build our CVs.

Exactly. I volunteered in two labs simultaneously for three years in order to get my name on product. Huge difference between saying "I have research experiencec and "I have my name on an abstract/manuscript"

 

[ClinicalABA]

At least when I applied, it was still a pretty big deal. Heck, I even did the subject gre (idk what I got on that).

Yeah- I was pretty much already accepted by my mentor with the caveat that I had to get a minimum grade on the standard GREs and the psych subject test (because I was not an undergrad psych major). I don't remember what I got for scores, but presumably it was good enough.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Yep, just to add to the chorus: my GPA and research experience weren't anything special (3.4 or 3.5 for the former and 2-3 years with no pubs for the latter), and my advisor later told me the main reasons he interviewed me were my GRE score and my essays. I believe I did AW the first year or so that it officially counted, so although I did well on it, I don't place my stock in the score because I figure they were potentially being more generous than later cycles.

 

[cara susanna]

How do you guys even remember your scores? I would have to find the score report. All I remember was being above the average for my grad program. Must be the dementia creeping in...

Because the GRE KILLED me. I studied so hard for it. I took it several times. Like I said, I even did online tutoring. And after all that work, the only score that really went up that much was my verbal (once I learned how to solve analogies, I was unstoppable. Lol). My verbal was 640 or something and my quant score didn't even break 600, I want to say a 580?

Meanwhile, my brother (computer science) didn't even study and got an 800 quant. So unfair.

 

[Sanman]

Because the GRE KILLED me. I studied so hard for it. I took it several times. Like I said, I even did online tutoring. And after all that work, the only score that really went up that much was my verbal (once I learned how to solve analogies, I was unstoppable. Lol). My verbal was 640 or something and my quant score didn't even break 600, I want to say a 580?

Meanwhile, my brother (computer science) didn't even study and got an 800 quant. So unfair.

Have you compared salaries? That is just the beginning of unfair

 

[cara susanna]

Have you compared salaries? That is just the beginning of unfair

Oh, yeah, especially because he ended up not going to grad school and just has a Bachelors.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Yeah, for folks who have the skillset, CS and other tech-related fields can pay very well. Although to be fair, a lot of the CS-type folks I know also work some pretty serious hours for their salaries. Same with accounting.

 

[The Cinnabon]

Yeah, for folks who have the skillset, CS and other tech-related fields can pay very well. Although to be fair, a lot of the CS-type folks I know also work some pretty serious hours for their salaries. Same with accounting.

My SO is in software development and being in tech right now has some issues. While it can be pretty lucrative, your job security can be tumultuous. Additionally the pay isn't guaranteed to be lucrative, getting hired by a FANG company is no walk in the park and senior people do get laid off.

 

[Sanman]

My SO is in software development and being in tech right now has some issues. While it can be pretty lucrative, your job security can be tumultuous. Additionally the pay isn't guaranteed to be lucrative, getting hired by a FANG company is no walk in the park and senior people do get laid off.

This depends on who you are whether a getting hired by a FAANG is hard. The correct education can make it easy. I agree that now is not a great time for Tech and layoffs do happen. However:

1. You don't need to work for a FAANG company to make more than a psychologist with a Bachelor's degree
2. The FAANG folks I know are clearing $3-500k/year. If they are smart, they have stashed a good chunk away for a job loss.
3. Startups/businesses can bring in millions if acquired

We have the luxury of never being out of work, but fewer ways to make it really big.

 

[The Cinnabon]

This depends on who you are whether a getting hired by a FAANG is hard. The correct education can make it easy. I agree that now is not a great time for Tech and layoffs do happen. However:

1. You don't need to work for a FAANG company to make more than a psychologist with a Bachelor's degree
2. The FAANG folks I know are clearing $3-500k/year. If they are smart, they have stashed a good chunk away for a job loss.
3. Startups/businesses can bring in millions if acquired

We have the luxury of never being out of work, but fewer ways to make it really big.

These are all excellent points. You could almost certainly retire earlier with a higher QOL.

Having said all of that, my brief consideration of software engineering went out the window every time I did coding. Don't get me wrong, I'll be using some of that coding in psych, but my god I'm happy I don't need to know what my SO needs to know.

 

[R. Matey]

Yep, just to add to the chorus: my GPA and research experience weren't anything special (3.4 or 3.5 for the former and 2-3 years with no pubs for the latter), and my advisor later told me the main reasons he interviewed me were my GRE score and my essays. I believe I did AW the first year or so that it officially counted, so although I did well on it, I don't place my stock in the score because I figure they were potentially being more generous than later cycles.

For me personally, GRE scores were factored in a recruitment package that included a generous institutional award on top full funding. My GPA was nothing special at 3.6 and my research exp was similar, but 315 (5.5 AW) plus a high subject test score pushed me over the edge.

 

[R. Matey]

My SO is in software development and being in tech right now has some issues. While it can be pretty lucrative, your job security can be tumultuous. Additionally the pay isn't guaranteed to be lucrative, getting hired by a FANG company is no walk in the park and senior people do get laid off.

Plus AI will take their jobs long before it takes yours.

 

[Shiori]

Based on the varied experiences presented in the thread, it sounds like we're probably going to be bad at predicting who does well in grad school because there are so many ways to be successful. I was mediocre at the GRE, had good grades, had lab experience, and had a published paper. I also worked with a person who was notorious in the field for being challenging to work with and I survived it.

If I had to nail down my top quality, it would have been my age. I had outgrown a lot of things that would have tripped me up when I was younger. I was determined, single, and used achievement as a marker of being "good enough" to manage my anxiety. I had these qualities when I was younger, but the stress of grad school pushed me right to the edge of being okay. I'm not sure I would have had the maturity to sit in the discomfort in my 20s. But! That's just me guessing. I have no idea. We're trying to do slightly better than shooting in the dark, and there is always room for improvement.

 

[cara susanna]

My SO is in software development and being in tech right now has some issues. While it can be pretty lucrative, your job security can be tumultuous. Additionally the pay isn't guaranteed to be lucrative, getting hired by a FANG company is no walk in the park and senior people do get laid off.

My brother went into healthcare software (EMR) and that seems to be a very lucrative and high-demand area

 

[Sanman]

For me personally, GRE scores were factored in a recruitment package that included a generous institutional award on top full funding. My GPA was nothing special at 3.6 and my research exp was similar, but 315 (5.5 AW) plus a high subject test score pushed me over the edge.

Way back when, my GPA was ~3.7 (with a 3.9ish Psych GPA), 2.5 years in one lab with while acting as a lab manager, 1.5 years in another lab w/ honor's thesis, two semesters clinical experience, above average GRE and Psych GRE, Psi Chi, several posters but no pubs.

I still got rejected by 2/3rds of the applications I put in for funded programs (mostly in unpopular locations). It has never been easy.

 

[R. Matey]

Way back when, my GPA was ~3.7 (with a 3.9ish Psych GPA), 2.5 years in one lab with while acting as a lab manager, 1.5 years in another lab w/ honor's thesis, two semesters clinical experience, above average GRE and Psych GRE, Psi Chi, several posters but no pubs.

I still got rejected by 2/3rds of the applications I put in for funded programs. It has never been easy.

Edit: Oh, I see it now. I put in 15 applications that year (all counseling), had six interviews, and four (?) offers. Out of those, one had decent funding, which is where I went. As I've said elsewhere, the program had a middling EPPP pass rate, but it was the best out of the bunch so I took it.

 

[Sanman]

I'm trying real hard to understand your point.

I was getting back to the point of the topic, though we kind of left that ages ago. It occurs to me based on recent threads that terms like ,easy, hard, and accomplished are difficult to establish. We had an applicant here recently mention having an iron clad app with a 3.1 gpa.

 

[MCParent]

For me personally, GRE scores were factored in a recruitment package that included a generous institutional award on top full funding. My GPA was nothing special at 3.6 and my research exp was similar, but 315 (5.5 AW) plus a high subject test score pushed me over the edge.

I also got a super nice (at the time, the amount sounds horrifying now) fin package bc of my GREs. Universities have made new ways of comparing across disciplines for the big uni-wide awards; in the past AFAIK GREs were seen as one of the few things you could use to compare an engineer to a historian.

 

[R. Matey]

I was getting back to the point of the topic, though we kind of left that ages ago. It occurs to me based on recent threads that terms like ,easy, hard, and accomplished are difficult to establish. We had an applicant here recently mention having an iron clad app with a 3.1 gpa.

Ah, gotcha. Sorry, I completely lost track of that. I'm not trying to imply that getting into grad school is easy (I hope that's not that take-away) just that the GRE can offer a useful, but imperfect data point.

 

[Sanman]

Ah, gotcha. Sorry, I completely lost track of that. I'm not trying to imply that getting into grad school is easy (I hope that's not that take-away) just that the GRE can offer a useful, but imperfect data point.

I agree with you there. Especially for those that might need to shore up a weaker GPA or part of their app.

 

[WisNeuro]

I also got a super nice (at the time, the amount sounds horrifying now) fin package bc of my GREs. Universities have made new ways of comparing across disciplines for the big uni-wide awards; in the past AFAIK GREs were seen as one of the few things you could use to compare an engineer to a historian.

Our awards and fellowships did not use GREs, unfortunately. Ours were earmarked for demo factors. I would have preferred a needs-based approach as unfortunately, several of these packages went to students from extremely well off families. Rubs you the wrong way when you see the biggest financial award go to the classmate driving a new beamer and living in the nicest apartment building in the area

 

[psych.meout]

I have the inverse thought right now. I'm going to be entering a program I'm happy with, but I was scoring well on my practice GREs and elected not to take it on pretty short notice (it's an expensive test). I do wonder if that could have opened up the door at slightly more competitive programs or gotten me additional funding?

I received a fellowship for my program due to my GRE scores and GPA, which included a larger stipend and no research or teaching requirements for funding. It made the first year much easier in terms of time and money.

The GRE was important for this because the fellowships aren't just for the clinical program or psych department in general (though there are other, less generous funding opportunities at those levels). Rather, you have to compete with the all the other doctoral programs at this fairly large university. This is another reason why the clinical program emphasizes the GRE, it helps their students get better funding and bought out time than the dept can afford. The psych dept consistently gets more of these fellowships than any other graduate dept and the clinical program gets the most out of the dept and the university.