Not Enough Research --> Options?

[geeyouknit]

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Hey,

So I'm a rising third year at undergraduate. I came in thinking I was going to be a doctor, but after starting research in this spring and some shadowing, I've been thinking about applying for Md/PhD. I read neuronix's sticky and him, along with everyone else seems to think that you should have at least 2 years of research. I assume that's by the time you apply.

If I were to apply next June/July for Mdphd, that would only give me a 1.5 years of research experience. Clearly that seems dangerously low when I also take into account that research is going slow and there's not a high chance that I'll get published in the next year. I know I started doing research kind of late, but that's because I really wanted to do neuro- research and ignored other opportunities (not sure if this was the best decision).

I guess my question is, should I wait till after I graduate to apply or a year after that? What kind of options would I have to increase research experience w/o applying for grad school? Also, would you think 1.5 years is enough to work in single lab - I was thinking of exploring other research for my senior year and the summer before.
Thanks.

 

[PfNO22]

I know I started doing research kind of late, but that's because I really wanted to do neuro- research and ignored other opportunities (not sure if this was the best decision).

Is this a new phenomenon, tons of people wanting to do neurology research for whatever reason?

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Hey,

So I'm a rising third year at undergraduate. I came in thinking I was going to be a doctor, but after starting research in this spring and some shadowing, I've been thinking about applying for Md/PhD. I read neuronix's sticky and him, along with everyone else seems to think that you should have at least 2 years of research. I assume that's by the time you apply.

If I were to apply next June/July for Mdphd, that would only give me a 1.5 years of research experience. Clearly that seems dangerously low when I also take into account that research is going slow and there's not a high chance that I'll get published in the next year. I know I started doing research kind of late, but that's because I really wanted to do neuro- research and ignored other opportunities (not sure if this was the best decision).

I guess my question is, should I wait till after I graduate to apply or a year after that? What kind of options would I have to increase research experience w/o applying for grad school? Also, would you think 1.5 years is enough to work in single lab - I was thinking of exploring other research for my senior year and the summer before.
Thanks.

If I were in your position, I would either do a 1 year stint after college in the same lab or go on to another experience and do that for two years. You can try applying now and see how it goes. In my view a great GPA and MCAT can compensate quite a bit for not as much research.

 

[geeyouknit]

mercaptovizadeh,

If I did my senior year in the same lab (that would be 2.5 years), do you think that would be safe enough to apply or should I try to an internship/research program for 1 year after graduation?
Thanks.

 

[EsseQuamVideri]

Is this a new phenomenon, tons of people wanting to do neurology research for whatever reason?

srsly!

Hey,

So I'm a rising third year at undergraduate. I came in thinking I was going to be a doctor, but after starting research in this spring and some shadowing, I've been thinking about applying for Md/PhD. I read neuronix's sticky and him, along with everyone else seems to think that you should have at least 2 years of research. I assume that's by the time you apply.

If I were to apply next June/July for Mdphd, that would only give me a 1.5 years of research experience. Clearly that seems dangerously low when I also take into account that research is going slow and there's not a high chance that I'll get published in the next year. I know I started doing research kind of late, but that's because I really wanted to do neuro- research and ignored other opportunities (not sure if this was the best decision).

I guess my question is, should I wait till after I graduate to apply or a year after that? What kind of options would I have to increase research experience w/o applying for grad school? Also, would you think 1.5 years is enough to work in single lab - I was thinking of exploring other research for my senior year and the summer before.
Thanks.

Depends on a lot of factors. What made you decide MSTP? Also, what's your mudphud A/S/L? (MCAT/GPA/Research). I assume you are in a lab now, and maybe that is what peaked your interest?

 

[geeyouknit]

srsly!



Depends on a lot of factors. What made you decide MSTP? Also, what's your mudphud A/S/L? (MCAT/GPA/Research). I assume you are in a lab now, and maybe that is what peaked your interest?

I don't see what the big deal is with doing neuro research. I didn't even know there was a phenomenon. Not sure what pfno2 is talking about.

I haven't decided on MSTP, Esse. And I haven't taken the MCATs either.
Sorry, but not sure what "interest" are you talking about?

 

[EsseQuamVideri]

I don't see what the big deal is with doing neuro research. I didn't even know there was a phenomenon. Not sure what pfno2 is talking about.

I haven't decided on MSTP, Esse. And I haven't taken the MCATs either.
Sorry, but not sure what "interest" are you talking about?

You stated that you were interested in "Mdphd." I took that to mean MSTP, obviously mistakenly. By "interest" I meant what are your motivations for pursuing combined MD and Ph.D training?

And just out of curiosity, you've decided on Mdphd but not MSTP? 😕

 

[geeyouknit]

You stated that you were interested in "Mdphd." I took that to mean MSTP, obviously mistakenly. By "interest" I meant what are your motivations for pursuing combined MD and Ph.D training?

And just out of curiosity, you've decided on Mdphd but not MSTP? 😕

Well, I've decided on MdPhd, but I don't think that I have enough research experience for any Md-PhD, let alone an MSTP (although I would like to get into an MSTP). That's why I'm looking for viable post-bac/senior year options.

 

[Choculitis]

I don't completely understand this 2 years of research guideline—is that part time? I'm applying now and I've basically only done research in the summers (for a total of 34 weeks) plus a 4th year thesis project this year. So this is much less than 2 years, but it's also full time in the summers.

 

[IvannaFierce]

From what I understand you can compensate for not having much research experience if you preform well in interview. Such as being able to really show an in depth knowledge of the science behind your research as well as further applications.

And nothing helps more than being published, I think.

 

[PfNO22]

I don't completely understand this 2 years of research guideline—is that part time? I'm applying now and I've basically only done research in the summers (for a total of 34 weeks) plus a 4th year thesis project this year. So this is much less than 2 years, but it's also full time in the summers.

In my mind, it's just a significant hurdle that two summers of research doesn't really give one any sense of what it is like to do a PhD for years. That's all really. You want to make sure you can stick it out. You really have to want it.

 

[Choculitis]

In my mind, it's just a significant hurdle that two summers of research doesn't really give one any sense of what it is like to do a PhD for years. That's all really. You want to make sure you can stick it out. You really have to want it.

Yeah, but does doing research part time during the school year along with courses and other ECs give you a better idea of what it's like to be a grad student? I tried doing volunteer research for a semester and it didn't really work for me. This may have had something to do with how short the terms are here in Canada (12-13 weeks as opposed to 15 or so in the US).

 

[PfNO22]

Yeah, but does doing research part time during the school year along with courses and other ECs give you a better idea of what it's like to be a grad student? I tried doing volunteer research for a semester and it didn't really work for me. This may have had something to do with how short the terms are here in Canada (12-13 weeks as opposed to 15 or so in the US).

I'm not sure that 12-13 weeks is really significant. The fact is that projects take time and one needs to learn the skills about bringing a project to fruition.

 

[Choculitis]

I'm not sure that 12-13 weeks is really significant. The fact is that projects take time and one needs to learn the skills about bringing a project to fruition.

What I meant is that during the school year it was really difficult to find research time that fit with my schedule (I'm a chem major so I have tons of labs), my PI's schedule, and other grad/thesis students's use of the lab equipment. And I don't see how working for 5-10 hours a week can give you a sense of how difficult full time research can be, especially when it isn't working out.

 

[StIGMA]

I arranged my schedule in undergrad so that in my final 2.25 years I continuously worked in the same lab on the same project for an average of 25-30 hours/week during the fall/spring semesters and closer to 40-45 during the summers. Having this experience helped me immensely in the application process. It did not affect my grades and actually helped me in my science classes & MCAT by developing deeper understanding/knowledge.

5-10 hours/week or just summers cannot give you the same experience as someone with 20-30 hours a week of years-long experience. One is superior to the other. Only do less research if you absolutely cannot do more.

 

[delirium81]

What I meant is that during the school year it was really difficult to find research time that fit with my schedule (I'm a chem major so I have tons of labs), my PI's schedule, and other grad/thesis students's use of the lab equipment. And I don't see how working for 5-10 hours a week can give you a sense of how difficult full time research can be, especially when it isn't working out.

I feel your pain. I was also a chem major and had a lot of very demanding labs that took up whole days multiple days a week. It's not an easy course load to try to work research into. I'm guessing that if you want to sleep at all and not let your grades slip, 20-30 hours/week during the semester is not feasible. It wasn't for me.

This was part of the reason that I ended up taking a couple years off to work at the NIH. The other part of the reason being that I was interested in pursuing research in infectious disease and wanted more experience working in that field. I'm really glad I did, because you're right; working 5-10 hours a week in a chem lab would not at all have been enough to give me a feel for what kind of work I would be doing as a grad student. If you plan on staying in chemistry for your PhD then you're probably more ok than I would have been without the time off, but it still might be a good idea/make your life easier if you take a year off and pursue research full time while you apply.

 

[PfNO22]

What I meant is that during the school year it was really difficult to find research time that fit with my schedule (I'm a chem major so I have tons of labs), my PI's schedule, and other grad/thesis students's use of the lab equipment. And I don't see how working for 5-10 hours a week can give you a sense of how difficult full time research can be, especially when it isn't working out.

I agree with you. PhD students work more like 50-60 hours per week on the same project, probably as much time as you spend on all the coursework, but we've all been there too.

 

[Choculitis]

I agree with you. PhD students work more like 50-60 hours per week on the same project, probably as much time as you spend on all the coursework, but we've all been there too.

Yeah, plus it's way more frustrating to work full time on a project and not have it be working than if it's only a few hours/week. Coursework and other ECs give you a break from the research; when you're doing research full time you can think about and work on a problem for for days straight and still not make progress.

 

[EsseQuamVideri]

Yeah, plus it's way more frustrating to work full time on a project and not have it be working than if it's only a few hours/week. Coursework and other ECs give you a break from the research; when you're doing research full time you can think about and work on a problem for for days straight and still not make progress.

Yeah, tell me about it

If you know how much research sucks, and it's still what you want to do with your life then you probably have a good chance of convincing someone else of the same thing.

 

[geeyouknit]

If you know how much research sucks, and it's still what you want to do with your life then you probably have a good chance of convincing someone else of the same thing.

QFT. Fact: all aspiring scientists are masochists.

 

[Lil Mick]

I'd suggest taking a year off to do a research program (maybe one under the NIH...), especially if you don't have higher stats (37+, 3.9+). You don't need to be published--that's more luck than skill at an undergrad (or even higher) level when you haven't taken the classes you need to design your own study. With 2.5 years and averagish stats (34+, 3.7+), you should be able to get into an MD/PhD or MSTP as long as you apply to schools with stats similar to yours and strengths in your areas of interest. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk more 🙂

 

[geeyouknit]

I'd suggest taking a year off to do a research program (maybe one under the NIH...), especially if you don't have higher stats (37+, 3.9+). You don't need to be published--that's more luck than skill at an undergrad (or even higher) level when you haven't taken the classes you need to design your own study. With 2.5 years and averagish stats (34+, 3.7+), you should be able to get into an MD/PhD or MSTP as long as you apply to schools with stats similar to yours and strengths in your areas of interest. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk more 🙂

I've thought about post-bac programs, although I hear most NIH labs require two years. I've been talking to my parents about waiting a year to apply. They are against the idea; they seem to think that I should try and apply anyway to a couple of schools.

My gpa is as of now, good enough to be considered high, and I'm taking the MCAT in September. I think, once January comes along, I'll put up an actual "chance/list" post and think about it then. Not much I can do now except do well in research/mcat.

Thanks for everyone's help. Appreciate it.