Not signing contract for pgy2

[adrenalin]

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I am currently a resident and have interviewed again for the 2009 ERAS interview season. I have already submitted my rank list and according to the contract I am supposed to inform my current PD before March 1st that I will not continue for PGY2 next year...I know this is a gamble 'cuz the match is on Mar 16....now if I match and have told the PD b4 Mar 1st then I'm gud and dont have to pay 3 months salary as damages ..

but if I wait untill the match day to see if I match and then tell him..then I am liable to pay damages to the program which is equal to 3 months salary.....has any1 been in tricky situation like this before.....?

Any suggestions....?😕


Thanx in advance..!!

 

[Law2Doc]

I am currently a resident and have interviewed again for the 2009 ERAS interview season. I have already submitted my rank list and according to the contract I am supposed to inform my current PD before March 1st that I will not continue for PGY2 next year...I know this is a gamble 'cuz the match is on Mar 16....now if I match and have told the PD b4 Mar 1st then I'm gud and dont have to pay 3 months salary as damages ..

but if I wait untill the match day to see if I match and then tell him..then I am liable to pay damages to the program which is equal to 3 months salary.....has any1 been in tricky situation like this before.....?

Any suggestions....?😕


Thanx in advance..!!

The answer is totally contract specific. If you don't abide by the March 1 notice provisions, you owe whatever damages are specified in the PGY1 contract. So yes, if it's 3 months salary, then that is what you owe if you breach. So you either give them notice however it is required (might be in person, in writing, might be by certified mail -- you really need to read the contract) by the date required, or you eat the penalty.

 

[dragonfly99]

lawdoc
what if "damages" are not specified in the contract? I never have thought of leaving a residency, but I remember seeing in our hospital's GME manual that residents were supposed to tell the program by some certain date (? March 1st) if they weren't signing the next year'scontract, and the hospital was also supposed to give 4 months notice if not renewing the contract. I don't remember there being specific penalties mentioned in there about what would happen if someone didn't tell that they were planning to leave.

If the OP has a poor chance of matching, it might be better to wait a couple of weeks, until after the Match, to announce he is leaving (if he in fact gets a spot) unless the contract terms/penalties are truly draconian. That's just my opinion...the problem is one of burning bridges if the OP doesn't end up matching and then has to stay in the program 3-5 years more with the program knowing he tried to leave them.

 

[Law2Doc]

lawdoc
what if "damages" are not specified in the contract? I never have thought of leaving a residency, but I remember seeing in our hospital's GME manual that residents were supposed to tell the program by some certain date (? March 1st) if they weren't signing the next year'scontract, and the hospital was also supposed to give 4 months notice if not renewing the contract. I don't remember there being specific penalties mentioned in there about what would happen if someone didn't tell that they were planning to leave.

If the OP has a poor chance of matching, it might be better to wait a couple of weeks, until after the Match, to announce he is leaving (if he in fact gets a spot) unless the contract terms/penalties are truly draconian. That's just my opinion...the problem is one of burning bridges if the OP doesn't end up matching and then has to stay in the program 3-5 years more with the program knowing he tried to leave them.

Since the OP indicated a "3 month salary" liability in the case of breach in his original post, I assume that's what his specific contract provides for. If instead, nothing is specified, the program would need to demonstrate to a court what their actual damages, in terms of finding someone else of equal qualifications at that late date after the match, actually are. It might involve substantial headhunter resources, time spent interviewing, and having to pay moonlighters overtime to fill the slot until they line up a reasonably suitable replacement. Which probably could end up being worth a couple of months salary. So it's hard to know whether 3 months is draconian, or an actual approximation, but that's irrelevant if that kind of "shotgun clause" is provided for in his particular contract. If he signed a contract with this clause in it (and it sounds like he did), then that's the price tag for not giving notice. There will not be a way out, because he is a very educated professional and is expected to have read and understood any contract he signs.

So the short answer really turns on how confident he is. If he thinks he will likely match, he should give notice. If it's a crap shoot, then maybe it's worth 3 months salary to keep his current slot in hand while exploring other options.

 

[dragonfly99]

I've never heard of a hospital going after a resident who left (to be compensated for 3 or 4 months salary, etc.). Perhaps it happens, but I've never ever seen or heard of it. Of course, few people bailed out on their residencies at the hospitals where I trained. Has anyone seen a case where the hospital actually went after an intern or resident for not giving enough notice before leaving? It seems like it would cost them more to get a lawyer and do this, than to just let it go...

 

[Law2Doc]

I've never heard of a hospital going after a resident who left (to be compensated for 3 or 4 months salary, etc.). Perhaps it happens, but I've never ever seen or heard of it. Of course, few people bailed out on their residencies at the hospitals where I trained. Has anyone seen a case where the hospital actually went after an intern or resident for not giving enough notice before leaving? It seems like it would cost them more to get a lawyer and do this, than to just let it go...

Whether they routinely do go after residents or whether they could are two different things. You don't break a contract unless you are willing to pay the price, however likely that may be. Many times people/programs don't assert their rights. That doesn't mean you won't be the first time. Or maybe they feel like it's time to make an example of somebody. While I've not seen what residency programs do, I have definitely seen employers flex their muscles and make examples of employees for breaking employment contracts such as this. And no, it probably doesn't cost them more to get a lawyer and do this -- hospitals already have full time legal counsel on retainer, it costs very little to file a simple employment contract matter, and it's not so cheap to replace a resident mid stream. All it takes is one annoyed PD and you end up having to get your own lawyer plus are SOL in terms of a defense, because you did in fact breach the contract.

 

[Danbo1957]

Going after a resident for leaving the program is bad form, and, a double problem for a PD. News of negative events at a residency gets around. The PD has to answer questions as to why the resident left, and, a vindictive PD will turn off future competitive residents.

 

[Law2Doc]

Going after a resident for leaving the program is bad form, and, a double problem for a PD. News of negative events at a residency gets around. The PD has to answer questions as to why the resident left, and, a vindictive PD will turn off future competitive residents.

The resident's leaving already creates negative vibes. Going after them adds little to the analysis, and probably doesn't get publicized, because it will be settled in favor of the program quietly if the resident has no defense. There is nothing to go to trial about.

 

[dragonfly99]

law2doc,
I disagree with you, and that's what I was getting at in my above post.
I would contend that the vast majority of programs are unlikely to go after a resident for "breach of contract" if a resident leaves. I wasn't contending that they COULD NOT, if what the resident does technically violates some aspect of the resident's contract. I was saying I thought they are very unlikely to.

I have seen several residents leave programs (it's usually IM for something like derm or radiology, or general surg for something like urology, plastics or ortho) and I've never seen nor heard of a resident being sued for it. I imagine the OP is probably trying to judge the likelihood of something bad like that happening to the OP, if the OP gives less notice than is technically required by the contract. I'd not advise giving 2 weeks notice or something, but I seriously doubt that giving 3 months + 1 week notice, instead of 4 months, would result in the OP getting sued. The cost/benefit for the program just isn't in favor of the program doing that to the OP.

I agree with the above post...most PD's and residencies are terrified of bad publicity because it can sway candidates' rank lists. If programs have residents leaving, that often creates a bad vibe, where applicants hear about it and think there must be some problem with the residency, whether or not that is true. The same thing can happen just from 1 or 2 people having a bad experience at a program...there were programs that had a bad name at my med school just because a past grad had gone there 3 or 4 years ago and something bad had happened. Reputations of programs linger x years after incidents happen there.

 

[Law2Doc]

law2doc,
I disagree with you, and that's what I was getting at in my above post.
I would contend that the vast majority of programs are unlikely to go after a resident for "breach of contract" if a resident leaves. I wasn't contending that they COULD NOT, if what the resident does technically violates some aspect of the resident's contract. I was saying I thought they are very unlikely to.

I have seen several residents leave programs (it's usually IM for something like derm or radiology, or general surg for something like urology, plastics or ortho) and I've never seen nor heard of a resident being sued for it. I imagine the OP is probably trying to judge the likelihood of something bad like that happening to the OP, if the OP gives less notice than is technically required by the contract. I'd not advise giving 2 weeks notice or something, but I seriously doubt that giving 3 months + 1 week notice, instead of 4 months, would result in the OP getting sued. The cost/benefit for the program just isn't in favor of the program doing that to the OP.

I agree with the above post...most PD's and residencies are terrified of bad publicity because it can sway candidates' rank lists. If programs have residents leaving, that often creates a bad vibe, where applicants hear about it and think there must be some problem with the residency, whether or not that is true. The same thing can happen just from 1 or 2 people having a bad experience at a program...there were programs that had a bad name at my med school just because a past grad had gone there 3 or 4 years ago and something bad had happened. Reputations of programs linger x years after incidents happen there.

All I can tell you is that in my legal experience I have seen many folks sued who had reason to believe (1) that the suing party would never go after them, (2) that it wasn't worth the money for them to get a lawyer, or (3) that it would cause bad publicity. People get miffed and do things out of principle, spite or a whole host of irrational reasons all the time. If you are breaching your contract, you have to assume that there is a chance you will be sued and lose, and act accordingly. You don't play games you cannot afford to lose. So yes, even if this is a remote scenario, you don't want to take this action if you can't afford to pay the price. A program that actually went to far as to spell out damages in the contract (eg 3 months salary) is much much more likely to pursue damages -- otherwise they wouldn't have been so specific.

 

[Doowai]

I am just sort of goofing around

Sign someone elses name, like Donald Duck