Not sure how to do better on M1 class exams

[TheIllusionist]

I am currently a M1, and I consistently score a few points below or just at the class mean. My school ranks students, and I rank in the upper end of the bottom half. For exams, I listen to lectures via podcasts. I make ANKI cards of the material right away form my notes. I study daily. I do sleep 7 hours a day still, and I workout 3 times a week for two hours (powerlifting is my hobby). I listen to pathoma, and I read Guyton, if I don't understand something in physiology from class. I read Basic Robins for pathology. I read Bates for clinical questions. Before exams, I repeat through my ANKI decks a bunch of times, and I do about 200 practice questions from a bunch of standardized resources. I don't quite know what to change.

Our exams are heavily lecture based but lately professors have been throwing more clinical odd balls. I don't seem to encounter those during my reviews of question banks. I don't think I have the best memory. I wasn't a top student in undergraduate biology classes. Math and physics were more my forte. However, I do work hard to memorize rote details, so I am not entirely sure how much of the problem is my self perceived mediocre memory.

I'm not sure about what speciality I want to go into, but I want to leave my options open. I've been a historically good standardized test taker (36MCAT w/ 14 PS 10 V 12BS and 2340SAT), but I know class grades correlate to STEP1. I also know that preclinical grades count for stuff like AOA which is important for residency. I accept at this point that I will not get AOA, but I certainly still want to improve. Is there anything you guys suggest I can do? Are there any STEP1 studying strategies you guys have seen that work well for similar students?

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[LLCoolK]

you have that much pathology in your M1 classes?

 

[Moose A Moose]

Sounds like you have a healthy schedule, brah.

My advice: maybe you're using too much content to study. I know a lot of people that overload on what they're studying- too much supplemental material- and they forget that the exams test 95% of the material directly from slides and/or hand-outs. I know it can be tempting to add more to the mix, and you think you're doing yourself justice, but it usually ends up being a disservice. Try to only add that extra material on to further solidify what you've already learned to reenforce your already solid/juicy/thick foundation.

 

[exacto]

Sounds like you have a healthy schedule, brah.

My advice: maybe you're using too much content to study. I know a lot of people that overload on what they're studying- too much supplemental material- and they forget that the exams test 95% of the material directly from slides and/or hand-outs. I know it can be tempting to add more to the mix, and you think you're doing yourself justice, but it usually ends up being a disservice. Try to only add that extra material on to further solidify what you've already learned to reenforce your already solid/juicy/thick foundation.

lol

 

[TBV]

That just might be you, man. No shame in it but everyone was top of their class in college and it sounds like you're working harder than most so I can't really point to anything you could change. Sorry but nature of the beast is that most people will hover around that avg.

 

[TheIllusionist]

you have that much pathology in your M1 classes?

Yessir. Systems based

 

[ERDOC555]

I am currently a M1, and I consistently score a few points below or just at the class mean. My school ranks students, and I rank in the upper end of the bottom half. For exams, I listen to lectures via podcasts. I make ANKI cards of the material right away form my notes. I study daily. I do sleep 7 hours a day still, and I workout 3 times a week for two hours (powerlifting is my hobby). I listen to pathoma, and I read Guyton, if I don't understand something in physiology from class. I read Basic Robins for pathology. I read Bates for clinical questions. Before exams, I repeat through my ANKI decks a bunch of times, and I do about 200 practice questions from a bunch of standardized resources. I don't quite know what to change.

Our exams are heavily lecture based but lately professors have been throwing more clinical odd balls. I don't seem to encounter those during my reviews of question banks. I don't think I have the best memory. I wasn't a top student in undergraduate biology classes. Math and physics were more my forte. However, I do work hard to memorize rote details, so I am not entirely sure how much of the problem is my self perceived mediocre memory.

I'm not sure about what speciality I want to go into, but I want to leave my options open. I've been a historically good standardized test taker (36MCAT w/ 14 PS 10 V 12BS and 2340SAT), but I know class grades correlate to STEP1. I also know that preclinical grades count for stuff like AOA which is important for residency. I accept at this point that I will not get AOA, but I certainly still want to improve. Is there anything you guys suggest I can do? Are there any STEP1 studying strategies you guys have seen that work well for similar students?

Your post is kind of scary. Like you I've always been a strong test taker, and it's scary to see someone who did so well on past exams, struggling to break average in medical school.

Can I ask what school you are at or at least the tier?

Being in the middle at Harvard wouldn't nearly be that weird, but if you went to a random mid tier where you were one of their 90th percentile applicants, then I would be worried.

It seems like you are using a lot of good step 1 resources, but are you also studying the professor's slides and notes? If your professor wants you to know random crap, none of the review books are going to prepare you for that. If you are consistently missing the material not covered in the review books but discussed in lecture, then I would recommend studying the notes/power-point more.

 

[Crayola227]

yeah hate to say it the system is designed to create a grade distribution

meaning, that if they give an exam to 100 med student and EVERYONE were to get say 95% correct and qualify for honors or whatever, they would just increase the difficulty in whatever fashion so that someone was getting "average" or satisfactory or whatever

you might have to accept you were above average in college and are now just an average med student

 

[sliceofbread136]

Cut down on the outside resources you are using. Are your tests NBMEs or faculty made? If faculty made then definitely narrow down your studying to the class notes, basically have them completely memorized

 

[TheShaker]

You mentioned a lot of resources but are you using your school curriculum materials? If the exams are heavily lecture based, then it makes sense that you're not getting good grades if you're not using the stuff from lecture. I don't buy into the belief that you need to use a bunch of ancillary resources, especially so early on. The furthest I would go is FA and pathoma, but these should be supplementary resources right now. The primary should be your class materials to build a solid foundation for when the time for Step 1 comes.

 

[TheIllusionist]

Your post is kind of scary. Like you I've always been a strong test taker, and it's scary to see someone who did so well on past exams, struggling to break average in medical school.

Can I ask what school you are at or at least the tier?

Being in the middle at Harvard wouldn't nearly be that weird, but if you went to a random mid tier where you were one of their 90th percentile applicants, then I would be worried.

It seems like you are using a lot of good step 1 resources, but are you also studying the professor's slides and notes? If your professor wants you to know random crap, none of the review books are going to prepare you for that. If you are consistently missing the material not covered in the review books but discussed in lecture, then I would recommend studying the notes/power-point more.

It's a middle tier school. I'm probably 75th percentile in terms of entrance requirements but around 40th percentile in terms of class exam grades.

 

[ERDOC555]

It's a middle tier school. I'm probably 75th percentile in terms of entrance requirements but around 40th percentile in terms of class exam grades.

I'm really sorry to hear that. I hope that you can find some success focusing on the lecture materials and hopefully that can raise your test scores.

If not, I'm sure you will do great on step 1 with all the resources you are using and your excellent history when it comes to test taking! Good pre-clinical grades help, but probably won't keep you from your goals with solid other factors like research, step 1, etc.

 

[Crayola227]

excellent point, Step 1 score and clinical grades are more important

 

[Amba]

Are you keeping up with your Anki reviews every day or are you just cramming the decks right before the exam? That might make a difference.

 

[Affiche]

You and me are flipped, homie- bio/biochem/organic has always been my strongest and physics/inorganic has been my weakness.

I can't contribute much of anything to the great advice here because I haven't started med school yet, but my initial reaction to your post was that you're adding in a ton of supplementary material for someone who is already struggling with memorizing the core content.

I've read on here a few times that Basic Robins can be overkill, but hopefully some current med students can chime in here about that.

All I can say is that I hope you aren't dedicating so much time to supplementary material that you're taking away from what's more heavily emphasized in exams.

 

[TheIllusionist]

I'm really sorry to hear that. I hope that you can find some success focusing on the lecture materials and hopefully that can raise your test scores.

If not, I'm sure you will do great on step 1 with all the resources you are using and your excellent history when it comes to test taking! Good pre-clinical grades help, but probably won't keep you from your goals with solid other factors like research, step 1, etc.

Haha I hope so. I'll definitely take the advice of everyone thus far to concentrate more on lecture material. What I found disheartening is that for my best exam, the only time when I scored a standard deviation above the mean, I only slept a total of 3 hours over two days to prepare for it. I just kept cramming and cramming because I had done poorly on the first exam of that module, and I didn't want to remediate. So maybe there is potential. Either way, I'll just keep on chugging away with adjustments to see how far I can get.

 

[Goro]

Path can be challenging because it's a mix of processes and pattern recognition.

Go seek out those classmates who really impress you with their knowledge and/or academic performance. You should be able to mine them for pearls....and a few pearls are always useful.

Ask people to pimp you. It's more important to find the holes in your knowledge base, than verify what you do know!

And if you just a few points below median, you're still fine.

EDIT: it's not enough to be able to memorize; you have to apply!

I am currently a M1, and I consistently score a few points below or just at the class mean. My school ranks students, and I rank in the upper end of the bottom half. For exams, I listen to lectures via podcasts. I make ANKI cards of the material right away form my notes. I study daily. I do sleep 7 hours a day still, and I workout 3 times a week for two hours (powerlifting is my hobby). I listen to pathoma, and I read Guyton, if I don't understand something in physiology from class. I read Basic Robins for pathology. I read Bates for clinical questions. Before exams, I repeat through my ANKI decks a bunch of times, and I do about 200 practice questions from a bunch of standardized resources. I don't quite know what to change.

Our exams are heavily lecture based but lately professors have been throwing more clinical odd balls. I don't seem to encounter those during my reviews of question banks. I don't think I have the best memory. I wasn't a top student in undergraduate biology classes. Math and physics were more my forte. However, I do work hard to memorize rote details, so I am not entirely sure how much of the problem is my self perceived mediocre memory.

I'm not sure about what speciality I want to go into, but I want to leave my options open. I've been a historically good standardized test taker (36MCAT w/ 14 PS 10 V 12BS and 2340SAT), but I know class grades correlate to STEP1. I also know that preclinical grades count for stuff like AOA which is important for residency. I accept at this point that I will not get AOA, but I certainly still want to improve. Is there anything you guys suggest I can do? Are there any STEP1 studying strategies you guys have seen that work well for similar students?

 

[TheIllusionist]

Are you keeping up with your Anki reviews every day or are you just cramming the decks right before the exam? That might make a difference.

It's a mix. Some exams I keep up with it and some exams I cram. I get pretty much the same grade regardless.

 

[Rekt]

It's a mix. Some exams I keep up with it and some exams I cram. I get pretty much the same grade regardless.

The most important question wasn't answered. Are your exams faculty made or NBME questions? It seems like you're using too many resources. Also, Guyton is way too in depth for physio. Little and Big Constanzo should be your go to.

 

[TheIllusionist]

The most important question wasn't answered. Are your exams faculty made or NBME questions? It seems like you're using too many resources. Also, Guyton is way too in depth for physio. Little and Big Constanzo should be your go to.

Faculty based.

 

[MDforME!]

Hey man. I'm in the exact same situation as you. I always end up hovering at that average line but never over it. Currently in an H/HP/P/F system and it sucks always getting pass when High pass is only 1-2 percent away. Furthermore it sucks when you know everything is riding on each exam. Hope you figure something out. If you do let me know!

 

[ortnakas]

Your post is kind of scary. Like you I've always been a strong test taker, and it's scary to see someone who did so well on past exams, struggling to break average in medical school.

Can I ask what school you are at or at least the tier?

Being in the middle at Harvard wouldn't nearly be that weird, but if you went to a random mid tier where you were one of their 90th percentile applicants, then I would be worried.

Pretty much everyone in med school was a strong performer in undergrad and a strong test taker, and med school is hard. There's no shame in "struggling to break average" when the exams are significantly harder and the group taking the exam is considerably stronger.

Edit: fixing an autocorrect change

 

[Brahnold Bloodaxe]

Let's be real, OP's 2340 SAT absolutely blows out all but a very small fraction of med students out of the water. The MCAT is pretty decent too, and probably underplays his purely cognitive advantage since there is a large knowledge base component to the results.

So yeah, OP, I feel you. I also would not be satisfied with scoring at the median as someone with your background. With that said, no idea what to tell you lol.

 

[DoReMiFaSo]

I listen to lectures via podcasts. I make ANKI cards of the material right away form my notes. I study daily. I do sleep 7 hours a day still, and I workout 3 times a week for two hours (powerlifting is my hobby). I listen to pathoma, and I read Guyton, if I don't understand something in physiology from class. I read Basic Robins for pathology. I read Bates for clinical questions. Before exams, I repeat through my ANKI decks a bunch of times, and I do about 200 practice questions from a bunch of standardized resources.

OP, I honestly see a lot of stuff that you are doing right!

Podcasts? Great. Anki? very helpful for certain people. 7hrs sleep/day? Awesome. Workout 3x/wk? Nice! Keep that going. Pathoma, guyton, robbins, all very standard, all very good.

So in this situation where you've used a number of good resources, I would recommend doing a 80/20 analysis, meaning try to find out what 20% of your effort gives you that disproportionate 80% return in order to lower/cut out some resources and emphasize others. For example, take the most recent big exam you've had. What portion of your prep gives you disproportionate scoring? Maybe just 5 hrs of Anki yields you big time scoring while 20hrs of Pathoma translates very little. Or maybe the podcasts really bailed you out... etc

Good luck OP!

 

[TheIllusionist]

Let's be real, OP's 2340 SAT absolutely blows out all but a very small fraction of med students out of the water. The MCAT is pretty decent too, and probably underplays his purely cognitive advantage since there is a large knowledge base component to the results.

So yeah, OP, I feel you. I also would not be satisfied with scoring at the median as someone with your background. With that said, no idea what to tell you lol.

The thing is that the exams at my medical school are nothing like standardized tests. While the STEP1 itself has a bit of an aptitude component, it is still largely a licensing exam. From what I understand, licensing exams primarily exist to assess knowledge with a bit of critical thinking rather than the other way around. My problem with my school exams is as follows:

Questions will be something along the lines of

You have a pattern "2,4,x"

What is the value of x?

A. 6
B. 8
C. 16
D. 12
E. None of the above

You can essentially rationalize every single one of those answers. However, on my school exams, there is only one answer. That answer is factually correct. I remember learning for the first time how we are all products of evolution. It was incredible to first understand that evolution is not a goal oriented process but rather one of stochastic underpinnings that tends to lead to "favorable" outcomes. Therefore, not everything is so perfectly logical in the human body. I never had issues in math, physics, or even organic chemistry multiple choice. Everything was based on first principles. I would write out a mechanism or solve a problem and get an answer. I found the same logic in the social sciences, as a competitive and fairly successful collegiate debater. For some reason, I have not been to use this approach in medicine. There are so many correlations and clinical protocols. Memorizing drugs is an absolute nightmare for me. Sketchy did nothing for me in micro and hasn't helped really at all for pharm either. Sometimes, I think that I lack the innate skills for medicine. Memory is certainly a component of intelligence, and I definitely think I am lacking in it relative to my classmates. All I can do is keep on honing my study skills and put in my reasonable best efforts.

Granted, it is also certainly possible that I am totally wrong. There might be a logic to all of the madness that I see as medicine. I might just need to change the way I approach questions to see it.

 

[ERDOC555]

Post deleted for poor quality and content

 

[sliceofbread136]

Seriously drop anki, bates robins and all that other crap. Focus on the faculty material since this is a faculty test. Review that stuff like 500 times

 

[TheIllusionist]

I don't think this is true at all. Yes, generally speaking all med students did well in undergrad, but there is a huge difference between a 36/4.0 student and a 30/3.6 student.

If you are in the 95+ percentile of all applicants, generally speaking, you really should not be struggling to break average at the bottom half of all med schools. It would make sense to struggle at a top 20 school where all students are like you, but it defies past trends for these students to be at the bottom of their classes.

For the more average applicants overall, Med School can be a harsh reality. All of a sudden they went from being a decent student in college to be surrounded by students of the same caliber. However a 38/3.95 student who graduated from Princeton will probably do much better than the majority of his/her peers at 80% of medical schools.

I don't know how correct you are. However, I haven't noticed any such trends in my class. Two of my friends who scored similarly on the MCAT and had 3.8+s in undergrad are also right at the class median. My roommate who got a 31 and a 3.6 in undergrad is in the 75th percentile. The sample size is small and all of this is entirely anecdotal, but it does lead me to question (just a bit) the relevance of certain objective predictors for medical school.

 

[TheShaker]

I don't know how correct you are. However, I haven't noticed any such trends in my class. Two of my friends who scored similarly on the MCAT and had 3.8+s in undergrad are also right at the class median. My roommate who got a 31 and a 3.6 in undergrad is in the 75th percentile. The sample size is small and all of this is entirely anecdotal, but it does lead me to question (just a bit) the relevance of certain objective predictors for medical school.

Trust your own opinion and experience of med school, not the "experience" of the premed that you're listening to.

 

[OrangeOrange]

I am currently a M1, and I consistently score a few points below or just at the class mean. My school ranks students, and I rank in the upper end of the bottom half. For exams, I listen to lectures via podcasts. I make ANKI cards of the material right away form my notes. I study daily. I do sleep 7 hours a day still, and I workout 3 times a week for two hours (powerlifting is my hobby). I listen to pathoma, and I read Guyton, if I don't understand something in physiology from class. I read Basic Robins for pathology. I read Bates for clinical questions. Before exams, I repeat through my ANKI decks a bunch of times, and I do about 200 practice questions from a bunch of standardized resources. I don't quite know what to change.

Our exams are heavily lecture based but lately professors have been throwing more clinical odd balls. I don't seem to encounter those during my reviews of question banks. I don't think I have the best memory. I wasn't a top student in undergraduate biology classes. Math and physics were more my forte. However, I do work hard to memorize rote details, so I am not entirely sure how much of the problem is my self perceived mediocre memory.

I'm not sure about what speciality I want to go into, but I want to leave my options open. I've been a historically good standardized test taker (36MCAT w/ 14 PS 10 V 12BS and 2340SAT), but I know class grades correlate to STEP1. I also know that preclinical grades count for stuff like AOA which is important for residency. I accept at this point that I will not get AOA, but I certainly still want to improve. Is there anything you guys suggest I can do? Are there any STEP1 studying strategies you guys have seen that work well for similar students?

Pathoma, Bates, Guyton, Robbins, etc etc are all great resources for step 1 and/or general knowledge, but they would not have helped me at all on any of the faculty-written class exams I took throughout the first two years of med school. Except for maybe a few path exams where some of the professors used Robbins as like a rough outline. Doing well on in-class exams (if that's what you want to do) means memorizing those slides, end of story.

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

I don't think this is true at all. Yes, generally speaking all med students did well in undergrad, but there is a huge difference between a 36/4.0 student and a 30/3.6 student.

If you are in the 95+ percentile of all applicants, generally speaking, you really should not be struggling to break average at the bottom half of all med schools. It would make sense to struggle at a top 20 school where all students are like you, but it defies past trends for these students to be at the bottom of their classes.

For the more average applicants overall, Med School can be a harsh reality. All of a sudden they went from being a decent student in college to be surrounded by students of the same caliber. However a 38/3.95 student who graduated from Princeton will probably do much better than the majority of his/her peers at 80% of medical schools.

A bunch of my friends in med school did amazingly well in college and some of them do well now, but others really struggle. from what they tell me, the thing with people who worked really hard in college and did well is that they often peak in college, and they don't have much left to give when med school comes. they hit their ceiling early and don't have any higher to go, so they give it all they have and just don't get the same high results they did when the volume was lower in college.

then you have people like me, who were probably in the bottom 10% of applicants, but I'd estimate I'm in the top 20% of my class. I never really gave it my all before, and now that I am I'm doing extremely well. things that you would expect to be a certain way theoretically don't always pan out that way in real life. every person is different. it's possible that great college grades don't always translate to great med school grades, it's a different ball game. there's nothing wrong with being average amongst high achieving students.

 

[ERDOC555]

A bunch of my friends in med school did amazingly well in college and some of them do well now, but others really struggle. from what they tell me, the thing with people who worked really hard in college and did well is that they often peak in college, and they don't have much left to give when med school comes. they hit their ceiling early and don't have any higher to go, so they give it all they have and just don't get the same high results they did when the volume was lower in college.

then you have people like me, who were probably in the bottom 10% of applicants, but I'd estimate I'm in the top 20% of my class. I never really gave it my all before, and now that I am I'm doing extremely well. things that you would expect to be a certain way theoretically don't always pan out that way in real life. every person is different. it's possible that great college grades don't always translate to great med school grades, it's a different ball game. there's nothing wrong with being average amongst high achieving students.

That's a really great point and makes a lot of sense! I apologize for what was definitely a poor original post on my part. I suppose there are many other important factors besides test scores and college effort that determine who does well that I didn't even think of!

I really put my foot in my mouth on that one. Me --->

 

[sloop]

Use your lecture notes more and see if that helps.

If not, realize that not everyone can be at the top in med school. Your metrics from undergrad don't matter now that you're here. You may be proud of them, but they don't matter. Nobody will ever ask you about your MCAT and your success here ultimately depends on your work ethic and your innate abilities. Excelling in general chemistry does not mean you will excel in medicine.

People also work harder in medical school than they did in undergrad. There are people who are smarter than you but did worse than you in undergrad who will now do better than you now that they are forced to work harder and are less distracted by drinking Thursday-Sunday every weekend. Welcome to med school, where nobody is a special snowflake.

Just do your best, leave nothing on the table and have no regrets.

 

[phonyreal98]

I'm just posting here because the same thing happened to me my first two years, not because I really have any solutions. I had similar SAT/MCAT scores, excelled in chem/physics/math-based classes, then had an even bigger nosedive during M1 and M2, probably because I had a ton of trouble memorizing everything fast enough and with the heterogeneity with how material was taught and tested at my school. I never could quite figure it out, but I passed everything and passed Step 1 so...

 

[pre med 2014]

If things don't work out for you I'm selling a van down by the river. Msg me if interested


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[graviton]

And now some actual advice:
-I second using the faculty made materials more. The people making the tests are more likely to ask questions on the material emphasized in their own lectures.
-Make multiple passes to build up your knowledge. Don't spend too much time trying to figure out a topic in a single pass.
-You can use multiple sources with different levels of detail. Start with the most condensed and easy to understand ones and go over them more often. Use the "big books" only after you already have a base level of understanding of the topic.
-Unfortunately some topics require rote memorization. Recognize them and make more passes than usual or use a spaced repetition software.

 

[TheIllusionist]

Use your lecture notes more and see if that helps.

If not, realize that not everyone can be at the top in med school. Your metrics from undergrad don't matter now that you're here. You may be proud of them, but they don't matter. Nobody will ever ask you about your MCAT and your success here ultimately depends on your work ethic and your innate abilities. Excelling in general chemistry does not mean you will excel in medicine.

People also work harder in medical school than they did in undergrad. There are people who are smarter than you but did worse than you in undergrad who will now do better than you now that they are forced to work harder and are less distracted by drinking Thursday-Sunday every weekend. Welcome to med school, where nobody is a special snowflake.

Just do your best, leave nothing on the table and have no regrets.

Thanks for the frank advice. However, I do want to introduce a slight nuance. The intelligence required in medical school is a very special type. I might not be the right type of "smart." My innate abilities help me in subjects like physiology vs. pharmacology. However, IMHO, even physiology isn't as purely reasoning based as some people on SDN assert. Throughout my life, I never really had to work hard, relatively speaking, in even the most advanced math and physics classes I took. I had my share of Bs in undergraduate biology classes. I never had a great memory. I don't think I'm special. I merely mentioned my scores to give some context, so people wouldn't jump to the conclusion that I am a naturally poor tester. And trust me, I did my fair share of drinking and partying in undergrad.

 

[sloop]

Thanks for the frank advice. However, I do want to introduce a slight nuance. The intelligence required in medical school is a very special type. I might not be the right type of "smart." My innate abilities help me in subjects like physiology vs. pharmacology. However, IMHO, even physiology isn't as purely reasoning based as some people on SDN assert. Throughout my life, I never really had to work hard, relatively speaking, in even the most advanced math and physics classes I took. I had my share of Bs in undergraduate biology classes. I never had a great memory. I don't think I'm special. I merely mentioned my scores to give some context, so people wouldn't jump to the conclusion that I am a naturally poor tester. And trust me, I did my fair share of drinking and partying in undergrad.

You're trying to make the argument that acquiring knowledge isn't a part of intelligence and only "pure reasoning" really is (whatever that means). Or, at least, you are trying to make the case that the type of intelligence required in med school is some sort of fringe type that isn't valued elsewhere. First of all, it's really not. Second of all, there are people in your class who are honoring physiology and pharmacology. There are people who are honoring damn near all of their preclinical coursework.

I'm just saying that there are likely smarter people in your class who don't have as much trouble with learning the material as you do. I'm not saying you're not smart, just that you're surrounded by very smart people and that's the reality of med school.

Look, I'm just not a fan of this thing that smart people do where when they're having more intellectual trouble while working just as hard as their peers, they make all sorts of excuses as to why they are just as smart or smarter despite performing poorer. A sense of perspective is a good thing. Like I said, if you accept this stuff, it frees you up to be happy and satisfied when you know you're trying your best instead of remaining miserable because you're comparing yourself to other people.

I repeat: just do your best and have no regrets. That's really all you can do.

 

[TheIllusionist]

You're trying to make the argument that acquiring knowledge isn't a part of intelligence and only "pure reasoning" really is (whatever that means). Or, at least, you are trying to make the case that the type of intelligence required in med school is some sort of fringe type that isn't valued elsewhere. First of all, it's really not. Second of all, there are people in your class who are honoring physiology and pharmacology. There are people who are honoring damn near all of their preclinical coursework.

I'm just saying that there are likely smarter people in your class who don't have as much trouble with learning the material as you do. I'm not saying you're not smart, just that you're surrounded by very smart people and that's the reality of med school.

Look, I'm just not a fan of this thing that smart people do where when they're having more intellectual trouble while working just as hard as their peers, they make all sorts of excuses as to why they are just as smart or smarter despite performing poorer. A sense of perspective is a good thing. Like I said, if you accept this stuff, it frees you up to be happy and satisfied when you know you're trying your best instead of remaining miserable because you're comparing yourself to other people.

I repeat: just do your best and have no regrets. That's really all you can do.

I never implied it was a "fringe" type of intelligence. Accumulating knowledge is very important. I'm not just not as predisposed to doing it as some other people are. I stated that from the very beginning. There are certainly people that are brighter than me in medical school. I think you're the one actually implying that if someone does better than someone grade wise in medical school (adjusting for effort), then the person doing better is smarter. I just added a qualification to that notion. The person doing better is smarter at medical sciences. Medical sciences do not encompass all facets of human knowledge and understanding. The person who is smarter at medical sciences might very well be smarter overall as well. But it isn' t necessarily the case.

I also don't think I am doing the best I can do. That's why I am trying to optimize my performance by asking what I can change. I believe that there is always room for improvement. If I was in a pass/fail system or a system with grades rather than ranking, I would not compare myself to my peers. However, the metric used to judge me literally compares me to my peers. Therefore, I have to care about how I perform relative to everyone else. And trust me, I'm not going into any sort of deep depression doing this.

 

[sloop]

I never implied it was a "fringe" type of intelligence. Accumulating knowledge is very important. I'm not just not as predisposed to doing it as some other people are. I stated that from the very beginning. There are certainly people that are brighter than me in medical school. I think you're the one actually implying that if someone does better than someone grade wise in medical school (adjusting for effort), then the person doing better is smarter. I just added a qualification to that notion. The person doing better is smarter at medical sciences. Medical sciences do not encompass all facets of human knowledge and understanding. The person who is smarter at medical sciences might very well be smarter overall as well. But it isn' t necessarily the case.

I also don't think I am doing the best I can do. That's why I am trying to optimize my performance by asking what I can change. I believe that there is always room for improvement. If I was in a pass/fail system or a system with grades rather than ranking, I would not compare myself to my peers. However, the metric used to judge me literally compares me to my peers. Therefore, I have to care about how I perform relative to everyone else. And trust me, I'm not going into any sort of deep depression doing this.

Look man, in my three years at this medical school, I have encountered one weird aspergers-ey MD/PhD kid who was great at medical sciences but appeared to have substantial deficits in other domains of intellectual activity. Other than that everybody I have met who has been great at medicine has been pretty globally intelligent (able to debate philosophical issues, excellent abstraction capabilities, good at formulating a working understanding of the world both probabilistically and mechanistically and integrating new data into that framework fairly expediently, etc.)

But whatever, so you think that the people doing substantially better than you aren't very likely more intelligent than you. Fine. The fact still remains that how well you do in medical school is a product of two things: your innate capacity for learning the material and your efforts/actions in learning that material. You can't change the first, so why worry about it?

This brings me back to my thesis: do the best you can, leave nothing on the table and have no regrets.

 

[shoal]

grades during ms1 dont really matter. You need to be picking up the content for step1 based on your studying which im sure you are.

this learning methos will help with wards and through your career. those 1 off single line questions based on some crappy slide arent going to help you besides having a higher grade during that specific test.

i feel for the OP as i was in a similar boat. top performer in reasoning (engineering) at a top 3 engineering school and then got my ass handed to me in med school. youll make it. focus on big pictures add in the details

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

 

[TheIllusionist]

Look man, in my three years at this medical school, I have encountered one weird aspergers-ey MD/PhD kid who was great at medical sciences but appeared to have substantial deficits in other domains of intellectual activity. Other than that everybody I have met who has been great at medicine has been pretty globally intelligent (able to debate philosophical issues, excellent abstraction capabilities, good at formulating a working understanding of the world both probabilistically and mechanistically and integrating new data into that framework fairly expediently, etc.)

But whatever, so you think that the people doing substantially better than you aren't very likely more intelligent than you. Fine. The fact still remains that how well you do in medical school is a product of two things: your innate capacity for learning the material and your efforts/actions in learning that material. You can't change the first, so why worry about it?

This brings me back to my thesis: do the best you can, leave nothing on the table and have no regrets.

Correlation does not equal causation. Many people are good at both. You can't rule out those that aren't at the top from being good at other things. But yeah, I agree with the last part. I also recently did well on my last exam following the advice on this thread. Hopefully, I've turned a new corner. Also, my anecdotal experience doesn't match yours. But we most definitely have different biases. I also never wanted to turn this into a pissing contest. Either of us could be right, but the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. I appreciate your responses, and I know they come from a good place. I definitely appreciate the responses everyone has given me thus far. Because at least for my most recent exam, the advice worked!

 

[TheIllusionist]

247 on step1. For anyone struggling in M1 and M2 to get even 50th+ percentile grades, just keep working hard. If you focus on learning the material in an integrative way, you can still do well on STEP1. My n=1 anecdote is just another one of many that showcases the notion that below average preclinical grades don't always equate to below average board scores. One caveat: my preclinical grades did trend upward; I had 70th percentile grades in my last block, and I had moved up to around the 50th percentile cumulatively.

 

[Vain Brother]

congrats man. reading your posts in this thread it was pretty clear that you were just studying wrong. good luck the rest of the way

 

[Logic Inc]

Conceptually-oriented ppl tend to do extremely well if they study efficiently and put in the work. Basically everyone in med school has adequate logical reasoning to excel on boards and exams if they can keep up with the material (=discipline, minimal personal issues, etc). Glad you mentioned the "memory" component, and although I agree that everyone has different memory capacity on a broad spectrum, there are ways to solidify info w/ proper planning and techniques. This is more of an experimental hit-or-miss situation but usually people figure it out after a few exams. Some never do, but that's why we have probability in this world. Congrats on a competitive Step1.

 

[TheIllusionist]

congrats man. reading your posts in this thread it was pretty clear that you were just studying wrong. good luck the rest of the way

Ironically, subjects that I was supposedly studying the most "wrong" for, subjects for which I had 30th percentile grades in medical school classes, I did the best in: genetics, biochem, and molecular bio. In general, whatever I put more effort into for boards style prep, I did better on. Looking back, I think I should have just not let my grades get into my head and angled studying to give it a boards styled slant. There were definitely subjects that I had aced in school but didn't dominate quite as well, when it came to the boards. When it came to boards, for pre-dedicated study time, the biggest difference maker was reading boards relevant textbooks. For the subjects that I had read the student version of Robbins for and/or Costanzo, I tended to do better on, when it came time for STEP1. These resources helped me a tiny bit for classes, but time was way more efficiently spent memorizing slides to ace school exams. Anecdotally, for me, grades in a particular subject either showed little correlation or an inverse correlation with my STEP1 performances on that particular subject. For the majority of my best exams, all I did was spend my time cramming slides at the expense of reading more boards relevant source material. Therefore in these cases, I gained knowledge of the details that were tested on my school exams, but frequently missed out on the bigger picture. The only exception was Neuro, a subject I became mildly obsessed with it, resulting in a tremendous effort by me to try to master it both for class exams and boards.

My advice for students is to find the balance that works for them, when it comes to divvying up their time between class material and boards prep material. The two are certainly NOT ENTIRELY mutually exclusive; however, in my case, there was a greater degree of mutual exclusivity than I expected.

 

[cellsaver]

For exams, I listen to lectures via podcasts. I make ANKI cards of the material right away form my notes. I study daily. I do sleep 7 hours a day still, and I workout 3 times a week for two hours (powerlifting is my hobby). I listen to pathoma, and I read Guyton, if I don't understand something in physiology from class. I read Basic Robins for pathology. I read Bates for clinical questions. Before exams, I repeat through my ANKI decks a bunch of times, and I do about 200 practice questions from a bunch of standardized resources. I don't quite know what to change.

Our exams are heavily lecture based but lately professors have been
Is there anything you guys suggest I can do? Are there any STEP1 studying strategies you guys have seen that work well for similar students?

You are too laden with resources plus 2 hours in the gym is a bit much.

Drop Podcasts, Anki, Guyton, Pathoma, Bates

Use Robbins big book (text and Ebook/Inkling version) and UWorld. Start Uworld your first year - I did and it was the best thing I did in preclinical years. Pathoma was strictly review on my iPad when at the gym - 30 mins. However I read Robbins cover to cover and Costanzo, then used their practice questions for course exams and UWorld

You got this. You definitely can do it. There is nothing magical about doing well in med school but dont spread yourself too thin