Not worth it anymore

[Doneanddone]

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Long time poster here, created a throwaway account for this one.

I'd just like to vent--I'm not sure medicine is worth it anymore. I'm an intern in a surgical subspecialty and quite frankly am fed up. I'm constantly getting yelled at by attendings for things not happening that were ordered. Then I get testy with the nurses for not doing what we told them to do, so I get written up and called a b*tch, so I get yelled at by staff anyway. I'm sick of the hazing and BS. The thought of several more years of this is unbearable. I went into this field to operate, not to listed to people complain all day long. My procedure numbers are abysmal anyway, and all I do is answer the GD pager all day long for stupid things like Miralax. This isn't what I signed up for and I'm thinking of quitting. I don't care what I end up doing in life, but a lifetime of doing paperwork, not the patient care I signed up for, just isn't worth it. I'm constantly exhausted, haven't had the energy to work out for months, and dread getting up at the wee hours of the morning. I haven't studied in weeks because I just don't care.

Anyone feel the same way? I'm at my wits end and really contemplating turning in a resignation letter tomorrow.

 

[padastra]

Long time poster here, created a throwaway account for this one.

I'd just like to vent--I'm not sure medicine is worth it anymore. I'm an intern in a surgical subspecialty and quite frankly am fed up. I'm constantly getting yelled at by attendings for things not happening that were ordered. Then I get testy with the nurses for not doing what we told them to do, so I get written up and called a b*tch, so I get yelled at by staff anyway. I'm sick of the hazing and BS. The thought of several more years of this is unbearable. I went into this field to operate, not to listed to people complain all day long. My procedure numbers are abysmal anyway, and all I do is answer the GD pager all day long for stupid things like Miralax. This isn't what I signed up for and I'm thinking of quitting. I don't care what I end up doing in life, but a lifetime of doing paperwork, not the patient care I signed up for, just isn't worth it. I'm constantly exhausted, haven't had the energy to work out for months, and dread getting up at the wee hours of the morning. I haven't studied in weeks because I just don't care.

Anyone feel the same way? I'm at my wits end and really contemplating turning in a resignation letter tomorrow.

I'm not a surgeon, but my understanding is that in surgery intern year is not at all reflective of how your career will be like (or even the rest of your residency). Consider going into the call room, putting in some earphones with some relaxing music, and not answering any pages for just 300 seconds.

 

[Doneanddone]

It's OB--if I don't answer a page for 5 minutes and there was a decel, my ass will be chewed once again.

 

[DermViser]

Long time poster here, created a throwaway account for this one.

I'd just like to vent--I'm not sure medicine is worth it anymore. I'm an intern in a surgical subspecialty and quite frankly am fed up. I'm constantly getting yelled at by attendings for things not happening that were ordered. Then I get testy with the nurses for not doing what we told them to do, so I get written up and called a b*tch, so I get yelled at by staff anyway. I'm sick of the hazing and BS. The thought of several more years of this is unbearable. I went into this field to operate, not to listed to people complain all day long. My procedure numbers are abysmal anyway, and all I do is answer the GD pager all day long for stupid things like Miralax. This isn't what I signed up for and I'm thinking of quitting. I don't care what I end up doing in life, but a lifetime of doing paperwork, not the patient care I signed up for, just isn't worth it. I'm constantly exhausted, haven't had the energy to work out for months, and dread getting up at the wee hours of the morning. I haven't studied in weeks because I just don't care.

Anyone feel the same way? I'm at my wits end and really contemplating turning in a resignation letter tomorrow.

Whatever you do, don't make a hasty decision. OB-Gyn is a notorious malignant specialty. Are there any other specialties you've thought of going into that you might be competitive for: Anesthesia, Rads, etc.?

 

[shiftingmirage]

At the very least stick out intern year so you can get a medical license.
Do you think you will like the life of a second year?

 

[Chickenandwaffles]

It's OB--if I don't answer a page for 5 minutes and there was a decel, my ass will be chewed once again.

I feel you. I despised my OB rotation and felt exactly as you do. the level of hazing and anger in medicine is out of control, and needs to stop. If I were you, I'd look for a different specialty.

 

[Top Gun]

I think what you're really fed up with is intern year. As the intern, its "always your fault, even if it isn't." You're the low person on the totem pole, so crap falls down on you. Plus, you're in OB, which is populated with more b*tchy attendings and residents than any other specialty. The good news is that it gets better. You get a little more respect as you advance each year and as you prove yourself. As a second-year, you'll no longer have to answer all the stupid laxative calls and other BS, and will get more opportunity to learn to operate. You could simply try for a less malignant specialty, or you could remember what you liked about OB/Gyn, and use that to help keep you going.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

Interns are at the bottom of S&* Mountain, and it all flows downhill.

OB is notorious for eating their young. Crude stereotypes aside, there really is something about the field that makes a reasonable hierarchy and collegiality impossible. I'm a chick and I don't like talking bad about women, but we really don't do those two things well. There's a paranoid belief that we all have to be equals and friends, but when it comes time to giving orders, supervising juniors and delegating work people take it personally. NOT saying this is your fault-- OB seniors talk to their juniors in a way that makes me shudder in my boots.

As you well know, things do get better no matter what field you're in. But if you hate obstetrics, hate outpatient medicine, and hate pretending to have relationships with your patients-- especially if all you want to do is operate-- switch fields now. OB/gyn is NOT a 'surgical subspecialty.' It's 1/3 surgery. Sure, you can do a urogyn or gyn onc fellowship later on and be pretty much 100% a surgeon.

Have you thought about switching fields to gen surg? Seriously, if you're in a field you can tolerate, those years don't seem so long, because each and every day you're doing something you like. Find a nice community gen surg program where the interns are in the OR day 1 and I bet you'll be a lot happier.

 

[cognitus]

The bright side is that in about 3 months, you'll have new interns to b*tch at. LOL

 

[Doneanddone]

But I don't want to be a b*tch to the new interns. I have some upper levels who have been great to work with and always advocated for me. However, after working in recent weeks with ones who take procedures that I would never dream of stealing from my interns at this point next year, I'm fed up.

 

[DermViser]

Interns are at the bottom of S&* Mountain, and it all flows downhill.

OB is notorious for eating their young. Crude stereotypes aside, there really is something about the field that makes a reasonable hierarchy and collegiality impossible. I'm a chick and I don't like talking bad about women, but we really don't do those two things well. There's a paranoid belief that we all have to be equals and friends, but when it comes time to giving orders, supervising juniors and delegating work people take it personally. NOT saying this is your fault-- OB seniors talk to their juniors in a way that makes me shudder in my boots.

As you well know, things do get better no matter what field you're in. But if you hate obstetrics, hate outpatient medicine, and hate pretending to have relationships with your patients-- especially if all you want to do is operate-- switch fields now. OB/gyn is NOT a 'surgical subspecialty.' It's 1/3 surgery. Sure, you can do a urogyn or gyn onc fellowship later on and be pretty much 100% a surgeon.

Have you thought about switching fields to gen surg? Seriously, if you're in a field you can tolerate, those years don't seem so long, because each and every day you're doing something you like. Find a nice community gen surg program where the interns are in the OR day 1 and I bet you'll be a lot happier.

Yup. I have to admit that for some reason, the rotations in which all the residents were women tended to have much worse work environments than those in which it was either all male, or a mix of male and female. Derm is relatively the exception as everyone gets a good night's sleep, good work-life balance, etc.

 

[DermViser]

But I don't want to be a b*tch to the new interns. I have some upper levels who have been great to work with and always advocated for me. However, after working in recent weeks with ones who take procedures that I would never dream of stealing from my interns at this point next year, I'm fed up.

Do you actually LIKE OB-Gyn? Is your performance to date had no red flags? If that's the case, then don't worry about the upper levels, they will be gone soon enough. Cherish and treasure the upper levels who have advocated for you.

 

[LucidSplash]

But I don't want to be a b*tch to the new interns. I have some upper levels who have been great to work with and always advocated for me. However, after working in recent weeks with ones who take procedures that I would never dream of stealing from my interns at this point next year, I'm fed up.

I can definitely understand where you are coming from. Definitely try to stick out the last three months at least so you can get your license. That being said, you may be partly a victim of a vicious circle where interns don't get procedures so the PGY2s and 3s almost HAVE to take them from the interns because they didn't get the procedures as interns themselves. That kind of system is hard to break out of so just cautioning you to be careful what you say you would *never* do as a mid/upper level. Definitely agree with those who said focus on the goal of becoming more like the upper levels you LIKE working with. That's the way to win the game.

 

[DermViser]

I can definitely understand where you are coming from. Definitely try to stick out the last three months at least so you can get your license. That being said, you may be partly a victim of a vicious circle where interns don't get procedures so the PGY2s and 3s almost HAVE to take them from the interns because they didn't get the procedures as interns themselves. That kind of system is hard to break out of so just cautioning you to be careful what you say you would *never* do as a mid/upper level. Definitely agree with those who said focus on the goal of becoming more like the upper levels you LIKE working with. That's the way to win the game.

This.

 

[Doneanddone]

I can definitely understand where you are coming from. Definitely try to stick out the last three months at least so you can get your license. That being said, you may be partly a victim of a vicious circle where interns don't get procedures so the PGY2s and 3s almost HAVE to take them from the interns because they didn't get the procedures as interns themselves. That kind of system is hard to break out of so just cautioning you to be careful what you say you would *never* do as a mid/upper level. Definitely agree with those who said focus on the goal of becoming more like the upper levels you LIKE working with. That's the way to win the game.

If that's the case, why is it always the same people who take them while the other group of people always lets me do it? 2nd assisting isn't as thrilling anymore as it was in my M3 year.

I'd like to think it will get better, but apparently none of the faculty like me. If it takes getting b*tchy to get stuff done, then I'm not afraid to do it. Now I'm getting punished for trying to make sure things get done right. I should just start acting like our off-service interns and sit in the corner all day long.

 

[Top Gun]

I'd like to think it will get better, but apparently none of the faculty like me. If it takes getting b*tchy to get stuff done, then I'm not afraid to do it.

OK, I have one question. You said it takes getting b*tchy to get stuff done, but why? Have you ever tried being friendly with the nurses, or at least asking them nicely. Often you can get the nurses to do more by being nice to them rather than getting irritated with them. And how have your interactions with faculty been? Have you ever argued with them? Have you ever complained? Not trying to be mean, but if you're not getting along with any of the faculty, there must be a reason.

 

[Substance]

OK, I have one question. You said it takes getting b*tchy to get stuff done, but why? Have you ever tried being friendly with the nurses, or at least asking them nicely. Often you can get the nurses to do more by being nice to them rather than getting irritated with them. And how have your interactions with faculty been? Have you ever argued with them? Have you ever complained? Not trying to be mean, but if you're not getting along with any of the faculty, there must be a reason.

OB nurses man. OB.

 

[Doneanddone]

99% of the time, I am nice to them. But when we're busy and I have a bunch of places to be, I get angry when they're not executing things as ordered. It's not difficult to read a computer screen. Our faculty are a bunch of gossips, so one of them witnessed one of these incidents when I got testy (when a nurse purposely silenced my pager and did not return my pages when we were scrubbed in--glad no babies were tanking at that time, but how would I have known? It wasn't even that bad of an event, I could have cursed her out.), and now they all think I'm a b*tch.

 

[LucidSplash]

If that's the case, why is it always the same people who take them while the other group of people always lets me do it? 2nd assisting isn't as thrilling anymore as it was in my M3 year.

I'd like to think it will get better, but apparently none of the faculty like me. If it takes getting b*tchy to get stuff done, then I'm not afraid to do it. Now I'm getting punished for trying to make sure things get done right. I should just start acting like our off-service interns and sit in the corner all day long.

I didn't say it was definitely the case, I said that it COULD be the case.

99% of the time, I am nice to them. But when we're busy and I have a bunch of places to be, I get angry when they're not executing things as ordered. It's not difficult to read a computer screen. Our faculty are a bunch of gossips, so one of them witnessed one of these incidents when I got testy (when a nurse purposely silenced my pager and did not return my pages when we were scrubbed in--glad no babies were tanking at that time, but how would I have known? It wasn't even that bad of an event, I could have cursed her out.), and now they all think I'm a b*tch.

1) It is NEVER ok to be dismissive about the difficulty of someone else's job. It's like a nurse saying "it's not difficult to return a page." It may be that the nurses are sensing your disdain for them in these situations and that will not win you friends.
2) You seem to have a pretty negative opinion of everyone else around you... except you. Do you think there's anything you could have done differently in any of these situations?
3). No. You could NOT have cursed her out. It is simply not professional or appropriate to treat other people in that way. Yes we all get angry and yes we've all been on the receiving end of bad behavior. But that doesn't make it ok. You have the capacity to be better than that.

I feel like I'm getting a clearer picture of the situation here and your responses here are not really painting you as the poor maligned, beleaguered intern. A little more introspection may be helpful.

 

[Doneanddone]

I came for advice, not to be insulted. This thread is done, please delete.

 

[Chickenandwaffles]

I came for advice, not to be insulted. This thread is done, please delete.

As I said before, I feel your pain. I understand what it's like to be in a situation where you are treated like trash and when you react in the same fashion, *you* somehow are the *bad* guy/gal. I'm sorry you are going through this.

I think OB is notorious for this crap of abusing others. I think it's a projection of how miserable most people are in the field. If I were you, I would try to make an exit plan. I would not leave without having something lined up. There is someone wnating to switch INTO Ob from Medicine, perhaps a swap could work? Just saying.

 

[LucidSplash]

I came for advice, not to be insulted. This thread is done, please delete.

Likely unnecessary, but I'd like to point out that I did not once insult you. I may have said things you didn't like, but I didn't call you names or malign you in any fashion. I asked questions and gave you my perspective on your responses here. If you're not able to tell the difference between that and "being insulted" then again, I suggest that more introspection may be helpful to you with your current situation. That is my advice.

 

[DermViser]

OK, I have one question. You said it takes getting b*tchy to get stuff done, but why? Have you ever tried being friendly with the nurses, or at least asking them nicely. Often you can get the nurses to do more by being nice to them rather than getting irritated with them. And how have your interactions with faculty been? Have you ever argued with them? Have you ever complained? Not trying to be mean, but if you're not getting along with any of the faculty, there must be a reason.

😆😆😆😆

 

[hrandani]

It's hard to avoid the conclusion that medical training is abusive when this intern is being held at fault... for being upset that nurse that turned off their pager as part of a series of moves by a clique of coworkers who have decided not only to jeopardize the intern's medical training, but jeopardize the delivery of medical care for their patients in the process. Even if that is the most charitable depiction of a single wronged scenario following many, many events with the poster at ultimate fault over the course of their intern year, that's a completely unacceptable occurrence.

I'm sure we all would like to think in their place we would have come out on top, but even in the very worst case scenario, this person is only partially to blame. I guess posters here have only worked in non-malignant hospitals? I wish I could join others here in blaming the victim, but the just world hypothesis just doesn't ring true for me anymore.

 

[anonperson]

Long time poster here, created a throwaway account for this one.

I'd just like to vent--I'm not sure medicine is worth it anymore. I'm an intern in a surgical subspecialty and quite frankly am fed up. I'm constantly getting yelled at by attendings for things not happening that were ordered. Then I get testy with the nurses for not doing what we told them to do, so I get written up and called a b*tch, so I get yelled at by staff anyway. I'm sick of the hazing and BS. The thought of several more years of this is unbearable. I went into this field to operate, not to listed to people complain all day long. My procedure numbers are abysmal anyway, and all I do is answer the GD pager all day long for stupid things like Miralax. This isn't what I signed up for and I'm thinking of quitting. I don't care what I end up doing in life, but a lifetime of doing paperwork, not the patient care I signed up for, just isn't worth it. I'm constantly exhausted, haven't had the energy to work out for months, and dread getting up at the wee hours of the morning. I haven't studied in weeks because I just don't care.

Anyone feel the same way? I'm at my wits end and really contemplating turning in a resignation letter tomorrow.

I can sympathize. I'm finishing up an OB GYN residency in a few short months and can appreciate the difficulty. I was never pushed to the brink of resigning but I know some of my co residents and lower level residents who felt that they were at that point. None did and I'm fairly certain they are glad that they didn't.

Just for some clarification.

Do you not like the field in general or is it the people around you? This is a major thing to differentiate because if you actually do not like the field, then it's time to switch specialties. There is no shame in this and you need to be fully invested in the field for yourself and your future patients to actually be a decent doctor. If it's the people you hate, then a couple of things

1. Stick it out knowing that you are about to finish intern year which is a challenging year. You have an extra layer to protect you from the petty bull$hit when the new interns come up.
2. Try to switch programs using the CREOG clearinghouse knowing full well the program you switch into may be worse or the same in terms of culture.

Having crappy seniors is unfortunate but it seems as though you have some good ones. This is the same nearly everywhere. And it's a product of the individual resident. Some residents are more comfortable with procedures and will give their lower levels leeway and time. Others barely know what the f$ck their doing,even after 3.5 years and are still fumbling through post partum tubals or D+Cs so they will take these procedures from the lower levels.

One thing I will caution though is do not underestimate the ability of a junior resident to completely f$ck up a surgery/procedure royally. I had an over eager intern completely avulse the cord after a delivery and I was stuck manually removing the placenta on a patient. Or another perforate the uterus during a D+C.

There is no such thing as "just a" (this is just a lap tubal or just a primary c section etc).

The nursing thing is the same everywhere. Nurses are annoying in general. Labor and delivery nurses are annoying x100000 compared to any floor nurse. It's the nature of the beast. If any nurse directly harms patient care as a lower level, I would talk with the senior resident and attending and promptly write this nurses ass up. Simple as that. But please choose your battles wisely. You will kill your spirit if you try to fight every fight. Anything minor, I let slide and move on with my day. But some nurses will second guess your judgement and since you indicate you are a woman, you will experience this on a much higher basis.

As to some of the comments on whether OB GYN is a surgical sub specialty is mainly semantics. An OB GYN operates and sees patient's in the office and will manage labor. It's in a weird spot regarding some of its primary care focus but it is a good deal surgical and I don't know if someone who didn't even finish a general surgery residency is the best person to even comment to that.

I am always sorry to hear when a resident is pushed to the brink. OB GYN is ridiculously stressful as even the most routine stuff (multip coming in labor for an expected routine vaginal delivery can turn into a clusterf$ck complete with life threatening hemorrhage etc). The mental and physical stress is unreal and some of my call nights have been terrible. I can say that I enjoy my job and would choose the field again.

 

[Chickenandwaffles]

It's hard to avoid the conclusion that medical training is abusive when this intern is being held at fault... for being upset that nurse that turned off their pager as part of a series of moves by a clique of coworkers who have decided not only to jeopardize the intern's medical training, but jeopardize the delivery of medical care for their patients in the process. Even if that is the most charitable depiction of a single wronged scenario following many, many events with the poster at ultimate fault over the course of their intern year, that's a completely unacceptable occurrence.

I'm sure we all would like to think in their place we would have come out on top, but even in the very worst case scenario, this person is only partially to blame. I guess posters here have only worked in non-malignant hospitals? I wish I could join others here in blaming the victim, but the just world hypothesis just doesn't ring true for me anymore.

Precisely. Medicine has become an abusive profession, where upper levels, techs, nurses, attendings are frequently abusive and when there is any reaction from an underling, it is labelled negatively. Because we are in an environment where our "professionalism" and other BS is constantly being evaluated, we are fearful. I totally agree with the OP that what's happening is wrong.

 

[Bacchus]

Precisely. Medicine has become an abusive profession, where upper levels, techs, nurses, attendings are frequently abusive and when there is any reaction from an underling, it is labelled negatively. Because we are in an environment where our "professionalism" and other BS is constantly being evaluated, we are fearful. I totally agree with the OP that what's happening is wrong.

Either I'm living a pipedream, or FM is just not following the mold. I have never once been abused by a PGY2 or PGY3. I routinely hang out with my seniors (often moreso than my cointerns) and am considered part of their family. I semi-routinely go to the bar with my attendings and talk to them about almost anything. The nurses in our office follow our requests (I hate to call them orders, makes it sound militaristic). The same can be said for most of the nurses I work with on the floors. The OB and CCM nurses are phenomenal (despite the attitude of the OB nursing staff to be "lukewarm" at times). I haven't experienced anything mentioned in this thread, even as an off-service resident on neuro, surgery, CCM, peds.

Things that I found to work: 1. When I'm on call I go check on the patients when the shift starts, ask nursing if they need anything, and tell them to not hesitate to contact me if need be. This goes a long, long way. Just because you're letting them contact you "whenever," this doesn't mean they will. 2. Actually give a ****. Do I want to be a pediatric hospitalist or intensivist? Absolutely not. But at least pulling my weight, doing what's expected of me, and respecting everyone around me makes the process go so much smoother. It's been noticed by attendings, techs, and nursing. I've been labeled "dependable, reliable" and it has helped my reputation in the hospital, our residency actually as a whole has a great reputation for this.

I don't know, maybe there is an inherent humbleness in my program. Maybe we are pushovers. Everything for the most part is hunky-dory.

As an aside, OP did you know going into this program the malignancy of it or were you blindsided?

 

[Chickenandwaffles]

Either I'm living a pipedream, or FM is just not following the mold. I have never once been abused by a PGY2 or PGY3. I routinely hang out with my seniors (often moreso than my cointerns) and am considered part of their family. I semi-routinely go to the bar with my attendings and talk to them about almost anything. The nurses in our office follow our requests (I hate to call them orders, makes it sound militaristic). The same can be said for most of the nurses I work with on the floors. The OB and CCM nurses are phenomenal (despite the attitude of the OB nursing staff to be "lukewarm" at times). I haven't experienced anything mentioned in this thread, even as an off-service resident on neuro, surgery, CCM, peds.

Things that I found to work: 1. When I'm on call I go check on the patients when the shift starts, ask nursing if they need anything, and tell them to not hesitate to contact me if need be. This goes a long, long way. Just because you're letting them contact you "whenever," this doesn't mean they will. 2. Actually give a ****. Do I want to be a pediatric hospitalist or intensivist? Absolutely not. But at least pulling my weight, doing what's expected of me, and respecting everyone around me makes the process go so much smoother. It's been noticed by attendings, techs, and nursing. I've been labeled "dependable, reliable" and it has helped my reputation in the hospital, our residency actually as a whole has a great reputation for this.

I don't know, maybe there is an inherent humbleness in my program. Maybe we are pushovers. Everything for the most part is hunky-dory.

As an aside, OP did you know going into this program the malignancy of it or were you blindsided?

Well I think that 1-you are in FM, which is not typically a malignant residency. 2-Ob is notorious for being abusive. As a med student they were super abusive, and I know they were quite abusive with my fellow med students also. They treated each other like crap too, and the attendings would literally make the residents cry.

Surgical fields tend to be this way, as well as other competitive fields. I think because there is a lower threshold of screwing up in something like FM, it tends to be less intense and people tend to be nicer.

 

[MerickManual]

There is always FM+OB 🙂

 

[notinkansas]

I feel your pain. Here's the thing, though- if you have any student loan debt, it will be VERY difficult to find a job that will allow you to pay it off without a medical license. With a license but not having finished a residency and getting board certified in something? Your job options are very, very limited. Think prison work.

Yes, it sucks. The culture of medicine sucks. Intern year is the worst of it. But it's not smart to just quit. You need a plan. Believe it or not, having a MD can be very limiting in terms of getting other, non medical jobs. You'll be seen as overqualified. You'll be seen as too expensive.

So unless you have another marketable skill that would allow you to generate the income needed to cover living expenses and student loan payments, you need to be very, very careful about just quitting. The pain you feel now can pale in comparison to the financial difficulties you may very well face if you just quit.

Do you still like the core content of OB? If not, now is the time to gear up to switch to another specialty. If so, hang in there. Make the best of it. This hazing won't last forever.

 

[HopefulReapp]

OK, I have one question. You said it takes getting b*tchy to get stuff done, but why? Have you ever tried being friendly with the nurses, or at least asking them nicely. Often you can get the nurses to do more by being nice to them rather than getting irritated with them. And how have your interactions with faculty been? Have you ever argued with them? Have you ever complained? Not trying to be mean, but if you're not getting along with any of the faculty, there must be a reason.

I work with nurses all day long right now and I can 100% corroborate this. Along the lines of catching more bees with honey, many of the nurses here would bend over backwards for the physician who smiles, asks how they are doing, and is easy to talk with. The residents or med students who walk up to them mid-report and demand a chart for patient XYZ... Not so much.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

OP - your frustration is clear. My biggest piece of advice is NOT to make any decisions right now. When you are tired, overworked, and at the end of your intern year rope (which usually occurs around February-March), you are not in a good place to make a life altering decision.

Take some time, think over why you chose the field you did, and whether you still find those reasons valid.

You may even find that just with a little bit of time you will get past some of these feelings; I've known a lot of interns in a lot of fields (even supposedly benign ones like peds) who wanted to quit intern year, and have been much happier as senior residents.

You need to find SOMEONE to talk to about your concerns (not SDN). Is there really no one you feel a connection to at your program? A senior resident or a faculty? If not, what about your med school? Did you have any close mentors?

However, all that said, there are a couple things you need to work on right now. I'm not going to get into the victim blaming above, but some suggestions:
1. You CAN NOT get into a confrontation as described above with the scrub nurse when you are in the presence of an attending. Doesn't matter what they did. I know she was in the wrong. Deal with it later or through formal channels. But you just can't behave that way in front of an attending .
2. You don't have to treat the nurses with kid gloves or be their super-besty. But the advice above is still true, regardless if it comes from a FM, internist, whomever. The nurses need to first and foremost see you as competent, responsive, and reliable. If they see you that way, you will win points. Those points pay dividends over time. Especially if you are in a situation where the malignant senior residents and nurses are pejoratively calling you the b***hy intern, it is critical that from today on you give them zero further ammunition to foster that reputation.

(*please note this advice comes from a surgery resident who, while I strive for professionalism and have a very solid/reliable reputation, has been written up a few times, broken my pager against a wall on occasion, and nearly came to blows with one particularly frustrating floor nurse during intern year.)

 

[DermViser]

OP - your frustration is clear. My biggest piece of advice is NOT to make any decisions right now. When you are tired, overworked, and at the end of your intern year rope (which usually occurs around February-March), you are not in a good place to make a life altering decision.

Take some time, think over why you chose the field you did, and whether you still find those reasons valid.

You may even find that just with a little bit of time you will get past some of these feelings; I've known a lot of interns in a lot of fields (even supposedly benign ones like peds) who wanted to quit intern year, and have been much happier as senior residents.

You need to find SOMEONE to talk to about your concerns (not SDN). Is there really no one you feel a connection to at your program? A senior resident or a faculty? If not, what about your med school? Did you have any close mentors?

However, all that said, there are a couple things you need to work on right now. I'm not going to get into the victim blaming above, but some suggestions:
1. You CAN NOT get into a confrontation as described above with the scrub nurse when you are in the presence of an attending. Doesn't matter what they did. I know she was in the wrong. Deal with it later or through formal channels. But you just can't behave that way in front of an attending .
2. You don't have to treat the nurses with kid gloves or be their super-besty. But the advice above is still true, regardless if it comes from a FM, internist, whomever. The nurses need to first and foremost see you as competent, responsive, and reliable. If they see you that way, you will win points. Those points pay dividends over time. Especially if you are in a situation where the malignant senior residents and nurses are pejoratively calling you the b***hy intern, it is critical that from today on you give them zero further ammunition to foster that reputation.

(*please note this advice comes from a surgery resident who, while I strive for professionalism and have a very solid/reliable reputation, has been written up a few times, broken my pager against a wall on occasion, and nearly came to blows with one particularly frustrating floor nurse during intern year.)

Talking to a senior resident or faculty member will end up biting the OP in the butt. Hardly good advice.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Talking to a senior resident or faculty member will end up biting the OP in the butt. Hardly good advice.

It all depends on the relationships, which is why I prefaced the question. Especially if there is a senior resident who the OP has a good relationship with, I wouldn't have much reservation talking to them. The OPs concerns are hardly unique and I'd guess a number of people have felt similarly. An attending you'd obviously need to be a little more diplomatic but if you have a good mentor can certainly discuss being somewhat burnt out/frustrated with them.

 

[Chickenandwaffles]

It all depends on the relationships, which is why I prefaced the question. Especially if there is a senior resident who the OP has a good relationship with, I wouldn't have much reservation talking to them. The OPs concerns are hardly unique and I'd guess a number of people have felt similarly. An attending you'd obviously need to be a little more diplomatic but if you have a good mentor can certainly discuss being somewhat burnt out/frustrated with them.

I personally agree with DermViser on this one. I think talking to a senior resident will end up biting the OP in the butt. I personally even expressed this recently, where anything that is discussed with other residents, even the chief resident, is not kept in confidence as it should.

So I would stay away from talking to senior residents unless they are your friend or have some type of actual friendship/personal relationship with them.

 

[Top Gun]

😆😆😆😆

What's so funny? Its something that actually has worked in my experience, and I've been practicing for almost six years, including the three years of residency. I've worked with many nurses, and found that stuff tended to get done more often when I had a good rapport with the nurses. Maybe there are some nurses who, no matter how nice you are to them, continue to be b*tchy and inefficient, but there are others who respond well when physicians treat them with respect, including OB nurses.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

So I would stay away from talking to senior residents unless they are your friend or have some type of actual friendship/personal relationship with them.

Did you miss in BOTH of my posts where I said this same thing?

 

[DermViser]

What's so funny? Its something that actually has worked in my expereince, and me've been practicing for almost six years, including the three years of residency. me've worked with many nurses, and found that stuff tended to get done more often when me had a good rapport with the nurses. Maybe there are some nurses who, no matter how nice you are to them, continue to be b*tchy and inefficeint, but there are others who respond well when physicians treat them with respect, including OB nurses.

Sorry but nurses, esp. the ones on OB were one of the worst when it comes to doing things they're supposed do. I definitely could not blame OB residents for screaming at them.

 

[DermViser]

Sorry but nurses, esp. the ones on OB were one of the worst when it comes to doing things they're supposed do. I definitely could not blame OB residents for screaming at them.

Ok, so seriously why is SDN replacing every "letter that is between U and O" on the keyboard with "me"?

 

[anonperson]

Ok, so seriously why is SDN replacing every "letter that is between U and O" on the keyboard with "me"?

A p r i l f o o l s j o k e?

Sorry I had to space it out like that or it wouldnt display properly.

 

[LucidSplash]

Hmm. Thought it wasn't until September 19th.

 

[Top Gun]

Sorry but nurses, esp. the ones on OB were one of the worst when it comes to doing things they're supposed do. I definitely could not blame OB residents for screaming at them.

Fair enough. I doubt the OB nurses where I rotated as a med student were particularly efficient at anything, except at gossip and cattiness, in particular toward med students. I definitely agree OB/Gyn is one of the most malignant fields out there, based on the suckfest I went through as a med student. Sometimes I fantasize about going back to the hospital I did my OB/Gyn rotation in, giving those loser OB nurses and attendings a piece of my mind, and then showing them how I've succeeded in private practice. The line about killing nurses with kindness was meant to apply to nurses in general. At some places, even OB nurses can be more willing to do stuff when you treat them with respect. But this is dependent on the place. It certainly wouldn't apply to where I did OB.

 

[DermViser]

Fair enough. I doubt the OB nurses where I rotated as a med student were particularly efficient at anything, except at gossip and cattiness, in particular toward med students. I definitely agree OB/Gyn is one of the most malignant fields out there, based on the suckfest I went through as a med student. Sometimes I fantasize about going back to the hospital I did my OB/Gyn rotation in, giving those loser OB nurses and attendings a piece of my mind, and then showing them how I've succeeded in private practice. The line about killing nurses with kindness was meant to apply to nurses in general. At some places, even OB nurses can be more willing to do stuff when you treat them with respect. But this is dependent on the place. It certainly wouldn't apply to where I did OB.

You have no idea how much I agree with you on the part I bolded. If only it weren't due to being able to report a person to the Medical Board and reporting of so-called "professionalism" issues (i.e. "I don't like what you did/said")

 

[CLETUS.the.FETUS]

Either I'm living a pipedream, or FM is just not following the mold. I have never once been abused by a PGY2 or PGY3. I routinely hang out with my seniors (often moreso than my cointerns) and am considered part of their family. I semi-routinely go to the bar with my attendings and talk to them about almost anything. The nurses in our office follow our requests (I hate to call them orders, makes it sound militaristic). The same can be said for most of the nurses I work with on the floors. The OB and CCM nurses are phenomenal (despite the attitude of the OB nursing staff to be "lukewarm" at times). I haven't experienced anything mentioned in this thread, even as an off-service resident on neuro, surgery, CCM, peds.

Things that I found to work: 1. When I'm on call I go check on the patients when the shift starts, ask nursing if they need anything, and tell them to not hesitate to contact me if need be. This goes a long, long way. Just because you're letting them contact you "whenever," this doesn't mean they will. 2. Actually give a ****. Do I want to be a pediatric hospitalist or intensivist? Absolutely not. But at least pulling my weight, doing what's expected of me, and respecting everyone around me makes the process go so much smoother. It's been noticed by attendings, techs, and nursing. I've been labeled "dependable, reliable" and it has helped my reputation in the hospital, our residency actually as a whole has a great reputation for this.

👍
If residency is someones first job it may come as a surprise that people appreciate respect and professionalism. Using someone's name, giving a **** about them, asking how things are going, basically being a human being goes a long way. OP first needs to reflect and ask him(her)self whether they're somewhat at fault and could change things up a bit, whether they had unrealistic expectations about the field or are just plain whiny and having a hard time having to be humbled before working up the totem pole.
Here's a good start: http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0671027034
After all that if things still aren't right then maybe you really do have an unfortunate residency. But it helps if you start by looking for fault within before blaming others. Life lesson for ya there

 

[BlondeDocteur]

Occasionally you can prevail in this. I had a bad situation as a second year resident where a very senior nurse harassed me (and I don't say that lightly). Her vendetta dramatically interfered with patient care during our shifts together, in the sense that she would follow me from room to room and order the more junior nurses to disobey/ not institute my care plans. I collected the evidence, got statements of support from the other nurses in the unit, and made a formal complaint to the Chief Nursing Officer of the hospital. The nurse was formally disciplined. She submitted a written apology and was not permitted to be scheduled on shifts on my patients when I was on call.

 

[wholeheartedly]

Occasionally you can prevail in this. I had a bad situation as a second year resident where a very senior nurse harassed me (and I don't say that lightly). Her vendetta dramatically interfered with patient care during our shifts together, in the sense that she would follow me from room to room and order the more junior nurses to disobey/ not institute my care plans. I collected the evidence, got statements of support from the other nurses in the unit, and made a formal complaint to the Chief Nursing Officer of the hospital. The nurse was formally disciplined. She submitted a written apology and was not permitted to be scheduled on shifts on my patients when I was on call.

Any idea why on earth she did that?

 

[BlondeDocteur]

Yes, a psychoanalytic idea. Pretty certain I embodied a lot of her insecurities and regrets in life, and she lashed out.

 

[CLETUS.the.FETUS]

Any idea why on earth she did that?

Maybe she was going through a divorce, maybe she had a sick parent/child at home, maybe she had an abusive upbringing. Otherwise:

 

[DermViser]

Occasionally you can prevail in this. I had a bad situation as a second year resident where a very senior nurse harassed me (and I don't say that lightly). Her vendetta dramatically interfered with patient care during our shifts together, in the sense that she would follow me from room to room and order the more junior nurses to disobey/ not institute my care plans. I collected the evidence, got statements of support from the other nurses in the unit, and made a formal complaint to the Chief Nursing Officer of the hospital. The nurse was formally disciplined. She submitted a written apology and was not permitted to be scheduled on shifts on my patients when I was on call.

Happy you won, as a resident. Definitely doesn't happen often (enough).