Nova reputation clear up

[NotAMorningPerson]

I was brought to attention that some people say they can't recommend Nova due to their low board pass rate for the past two years(mid to high 80s).

Many DO schools have a COMSAE requirement. COMSAE is a practice DO board exam you take before your boards and a lot of people want their students to pass with a certain score to be eligible to take the board. Nova didn't adapt to this until last year because they want all their students to get a chance- which explains their low board pass rate. For the class of 2019, the board pass rate went up to 93% after implementing the COMSAE requirement. Besides, OSUCOM has lower board pass rate(high 70 to low 80s) for the past two years and I don't see you guys going around and not recommending this school? Don't get me wrong, OSUCOM is an excellent school with a strong reputation, but you guys obviously haven't done your research properly.

Nova along with only a few other schools (i.e. CCOM, MSUCOM) has by far the best clinical education among all DO schools. Students don't have to move between core rotations - we get a hospital assignment, move, stay there, and do all your core rotations there or around there. Our sites also are very good(Level 1/2 Trauma, The main hospital on South Beach) and we rotate with MD students like FAU and FIU in some of our sites. Most of these sites have residency programs that also strongly favor Nova students so you always have a fall back if you need it.

In terms of matching, Nova has a great reputation and matches very well. UF and UM are considered top programs in the Southeast region and regularly takes Nova students because they like us a lot. Strictly IM speaking, some programs like PCOM, CCOM, TCOM, Nova, KCU, RVUCOM consistently produce excellent matches.

Nova also has a lot of in house research opportunity. We don't look for research, a lot of them just fell on our lap. We get emails from faculty regularly about research and it's very easy to find someone and just start something. I am only a second year and I had a poster presentation, finishing up and publishing a project that i'm first author, and working on another project concurrently. Most of my friends are working on 1-2 projects and we have a lot of funding and resources.

Nova does have its cons(mandatory rural rotation, very difficult curriculum) but it is considered an excellent program and has a stellar reputation in Florida. Say what you want about Nova but board score is ultimately on the students. Everyone I know are using UFAPS (Uworld, FirstAid, Pathoma, Sketchy) for board prep and are all doing fine. Now that we have a COMSAE requirement just like most other DO schools, our board pass rate is and will be as good. But in terms of research and clinical education, not all DO schools have that readily. So I can't recommend your opinions on Nova but will recommend you to do your proper research before posting them.

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[RNthenDoc]

...But at the end of the day if you cannot pass boards you cannot match...

As important as the clinical education portion is, if I attended a school and wasn’t set up for success in boards it would all be for naught, wouldn’t it?

 

[NotAMorningPerson]

...But at the end of the day if you cannot pass boards you cannot match...

As important as the clinical education portion is, if I attended a school and wasn’t set up for success in boards it would all be for naught, wouldn’t it?

Most schools have a COMSAE requirement barring students who can't pass the board from taking the board. Nova allowed every student to take the boards and didn't adapt to this until last year. This past year the pass rate is 93%. You may attend a school that you think have an excellent preclinical education(high board pass rate) but happens to be one of the student who don't meet the COMSAE requirement and never get a chance to take the board. That date is simply skewed. Nova is equivalent to other DO schools, just never implemented the COMSAE policy until last year.

If you want to go to a school that has the best curriculum for preclinical education, look for systems curriculum offered by schools like TCOM and RVUCOM. These schools will make sure you do very well on the boards and tend to do very well in residency matches.

Ultimately the board prep and board score is up to you. Once you enter medical school, you should look for outside resources to prep for the boards (UFAPS). Don't aim for just passing, aim for higher.

 

[Goro]

I was brought to attention that some people say they can't recommend Nova due to their low board pass rate for the past two years(mid to high 80s).

Many DO schools have a COMSAE requirement. COMSAE is a practice DO board exam you take before your boards and a lot of people want their students to pass with a certain score to be eligible to take the board. Nova didn't adapt to this until last year because they want all their students to get a chance- which explains their low board pass rate. For the class of 2019, the board pass rate went up to 93% after implementing the COMSAE requirement. Besides, OSUCOM has lower board pass rate(high 70 to low 80s) for the past two years and I don't see you guys going around and not recommending this school? Don't get me wrong, OSUCOM is an excellent school with a strong reputation, but you guys obviously haven't done your research properly.

Nova along with only a few other schools (i.e. CCOM, MSUCOM) has by far the best clinical education among all DO schools. Students don't have to move between core rotations - we get a hospital assignment, move, stay there, and do all your core rotations there or around there. Our sites also are very good(Level 1/2 Trauma, The main hospital on South Beach) and we rotate with MD students like FAU and FIU in some of our sites. Most of these sites have residency programs that also strongly favor Nova students so you always have a fall back if you need it.

In terms of matching, Nova has a great reputation and matches very well. UF and UM are considered top programs in the Southeast region and regularly takes Nova students because they like us a lot. Strictly IM speaking, some programs like PCOM, CCOM, TCOM, Nova, KCU, RVUCOM consistently produce excellent matches.

Nova also has a lot of in house research opportunity. We don't look for research, a lot of them just fell on our lap. We get emails from faculty regularly about research and it's very easy to find someone and just start something. I am only a second year and I had a poster presentation, finishing up and publishing a project that i'm first author, and working on another project concurrently. Most of my friends are working on 1-2 projects and we have a lot of funding and resources.

Nova does have its cons(mandatory rural rotation, very difficult curriculum) but it is considered an excellent program and has a stellar reputation in Florida. Say what you want about Nova but board score is ultimately on the students. Everyone I know are using UFAPS (Uworld, FirstAid, Pathoma, Sketchy) for board prep and are all doing fine. Now that we have a COMSAE requirement just like most other DO schools, our board pass rate is and will be as good. But in terms of research and clinical education, not all DO schools have that readily. So I can't recommend your opinions on Nova but will recommend you to do your proper research before posting them.

When the Class of '19s score get onto this table, then my concerns about Nova will be alleviated. Until then, I cannot recommend it. My own concerns about NOVA were about his and this alone, not rotations or research, or whatever other things a good med school is supposed to have. Like high Board scores and pass rates.

Whataboutisms are not a defence. We are not discussing OHUCOM.

 

[NotAMorningPerson]

When the Class of '19s score get onto this table, then my concerns about Nova will be alleviated. Until then, I cannot recommend it. My own concerns about NOVA were about his and this alone, not rotations or research, or whatever other things a good med school is supposed to have. Like high Board scores and pass rates.

Whataboutisms are not a defence. We are not discussing OHUCOM.



View attachment 235416

You are overlooking the fact that many schools are barring and delaying their students from taking the COMLEX by using the COMSAE requirement to raise their COMLEX passing rate. You can have a 100% board pass rate from not allowing 20 poor performing students to take the boards. A good medical school is a school that has high board score and pass rate WITHOUT the need to use COMSAE to prevent students from taking the COMLEX. RVUCOM is a perfect example.

OHUCOM has been performing well on the boards. The school with a more poor board performance I mentioned was OSUCOM(Oklahoma State University). They are two different schools.

 

[Goro]

You are overlooking the fact that many schools are barring and delaying their students from taking the COMLEX by using the COMSAE requirement to raise their COMLEX passing rate. You can have a 100% board pass rate from not allowing 20 poor performing students to take the boards. A good medical school is a school that has high board score and pass rate WITHOUT the need to use COMSAE to prevent students from taking the COMLEX. RVUCOM is a perfect example.

OHUCOM has been performing well on the boards. The school with a more poor board performance I mentioned was OSUCOM(Oklahoma State University). They are two different schools.

Yes I know the tricks the schools do to boost comlex performance results.

Be that as it may, that is still not a defense of the current performance of Nova's students.

Stop trying to distract with whataboutisms.

 

[NotAMorningPerson]

Not a DO student, but as an MD student, it's incredibly common to have some sort of preliminary test you have to take prior to Step 1/boards. What does it matter if you have to take a preliminary test if you can't pass the boards anyway? Why would you WANT to take the boards if you can't pass a practice test?

And frankly, schools SHOULD be doing that. It's used to gauge where you are and identify students who need help. At least at the schools I'm aware of, it's not like you get kicked out of med school if you fail the preliminary test. You get connected with resources for tutoring and support, maybe push your exam back a bit, and you take more practice tests until you show you can pass. A pass a month or two later than everyone else took it is 1000x better than a failed attempt.

100% agree with this. My personal opinion is that it drastically helps students to gauge where they're at and help students for the boards. Lots of DO schools adapted to this to help their students and consequentially raised their board pass rate. There is nothing wrong with a pre-lim exam and I think it's very helpful and very glad that my school decided to do it.

My understanding is that most DO schools have policy that if you don't pass the pre-lim test you can't start your rotations until you do. Not passing it a second/third time will result in repeating a year. Policy does vary among schools.

People were comparing board pass rate with schools who have a preliminary test to who don't. They were making school recommendation solely based on this. You shouldn't decide to not apply to a school just because they don't have a pre-lim exam. Besides, some schools that have a lower 4 year board pass rate never get mentioned and still get recommended while Nova consistently receives the bash. Oh hey, I cannot recommend Nova because of their low 4 year board score but you should totally apply to this other school with a even lower 4 year board pass rate because it's totally logical.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

The concerns a lot of people have about Nova go beyond their board passage rates. I have multiple friends at different points in Nova's program and have heard a lot of negative things. And yes, I recognize that a lot of students have negative things to say about the school they attend in the moment, but the things I heard from Nova students were different than things I heard from students at other schools. Yes, it's great that Nova has excellent clinical sites (I live in South FL, so no argument with you there-- the rotations are great), but if 20% of the first year class fails, let's say anatomy (don't recall the exact class it was), there's a serious problem.

 

[NotAMorningPerson]

I can't really comment on the bashing of certain DO schools vs. others since I know nothing about the topic lol.

And yeah, I think most schools who do Step 1/COMLEX at the end of M2 require you to have taken it before you start rotations. And if you can't pass the test multiple times with all the resources thrown at you, you SHOULD repeat a year.

My point is, not having a prelim test isn't an excuse for poor board pass rates. You absolutely need to put in the work yourself, yes, but if >10% of a class is failing every year, that's a problem with the school not adequately preparing their students, prelim test or not. That high of a failure rate, especially when it's consistent, isn't a result of the students not trying hard enough. And I would say that about any US medical school, not just Nova.

I am with you here! The problem with DO schools is that most schools need a pre-lim test to bring up their board pass rate. By using the COMSAE, you are covering up how bad your pre-clinical education really preps your students for the board. It is not just a problem at Nova, but at many DO schools. But on the other hand, school like RVUCOM has stellar board score, forces their students to take both COMLEX/USMLE, gets nearly perfect board pass rate without a pre-lim exam requirement. This is what ALL DO schools should be aiming for instead of using COMSAE to cover up their failure. They need to up their game in preclinical education. Reading board pass rate with a pre-lim doesn't tell you how good the preclinical education is and you should not make recommendation based on that.

 

[NotAMorningPerson]

The concerns a lot of people have about Nova go beyond their board passage rates. I have multiple friends at different points in Nova's program and have heard a lot of negative things. And yes, I recognize that a lot of students have negative things to say about the school they attend in the moment, but the things I heard from Nova students were different than things I heard from students at other schools. Yes, it's great that Nova has excellent clinical sites (I live in South FL, so no argument with you there-- the rotations are great), but if 20% of the first year class fails, let's say anatomy (don't recall the exact class it was), there's a serious problem.

People were making recommendation to apply to Nova based on board score alone so I was clarifying that up.

I am a current student at Nova and I mentioned in my original post that our school does have a curriculum that is worth considering. It is very rigorous. I am almost sure that is what you referred as negative things. Depending on which class, our class average usually falls between 77 to 90, and we get a small amount of curve with that. Cardio Phys and Renal system are two big guys that fails about 30 students each year out of 240. Each medical school does have their own tough classes and you should not be getting below a 70 if the class average is around an 85 and you just gotta work hard for classes like cardio phys and renal.

If you live in FL you probably know Nova's reputation here and it matches very well in Florida to the academic programs like UF and UM consistently. The curriculum is difficult but that shouldn't deter you from applying here. Medical school isn't made easy.

 

[NotAMorningPerson]

But it's not "covering up" anything if that student eventually goes on to pass the real boards, is it? And if they pass the boards eventually, then the pre-clinical education has done a large part of its job. If they were just kicking out anyone who fails COMSAE, that would be one thing. But as you've said it sounds like most schools are using a prelim test to identify people who need help and eventually get them to passing boards. So I guess I'm just not seeing how requiring students to take COMSAE to make sure they're ready for the real thing is somehow pulling one over on applicants.

COMSAE is a good tool but the school can also improve its curriculum to be geared a more toward board prep or just write board style questions on its exams. IMO it's a quicker but lazier move by the schools.

Systems curriculum has shown promising result in comparison to the traditional curriculum for boards or preclinical education in general. Implementing COMSAE doesn't mean your curriculum was great just because most people pass the boards eventually.

RVUCOM doesn't need the COMSAE because they have a great curriculum and essentially nearly everyone passes both boards with no COMSAE requirement. By July, EVERY student at RVUCOM has taken the DO AND MD board and are all ready to go on rotations. My friend told me that in 2015 or 2016, RVU's average USMLE score was even higher than their MD counterpart's(U of Colorado).

In comparison, other DO students in other schools are not nearly as prepared by June. They face the COMSAE and some would get delayed and deferred into next year's class. A lot of them also feel unprepared about USMLE and ended up cancelling and never take them at all. RVUCOM students take 2 boards and nearly everyone passed but other DO schools have some of their students struggling to even pass one board, that seems like a huge difference to me.

So why don't we learn from RVUCOM and tweak our curriculum to be like theirs so our students would be very prepared for boards, with COMSAE or not?

 

[Blanky]

Did someone mention once that Nova doesnt like its students taking the USMLE? Can you comment on Novas attitude towards taking both exams?

 

[NotAMorningPerson]

Did someone mention once that Nova doesnt like its students taking the USMLE? Can you comment on Novas attitude towards taking both exams?

They encourage the top 50% students to take the USMLE and discourage the bottom 25% from taking it. If you are between bottom 25%-50%, they said it's recommended that you are scoring at least 500 on the COMSAE. But if you passed the COMSAE, no one is stopping you from taking the USMLE but it's in your best interest not to bomb it if you're not ready lol

 

[fldoctorgirl]

If you live in FL you probably know Nova's reputation here and it matches very well in Florida to the academic programs like UF and UM consistently. The curriculum is difficult but that shouldn't deter you from applying here. Medical school isn't made easy.

I agree with you that people should still apply to Nova and consider it-- it is far from being a bad DO school. I applied and was accepted, but just decided not to attend (even though it's so close to home) because of some of these negative things I've heard. I would encourage others to do the same-- Nova is definitely still worth an app, especially if you're from this area. Once accepted, people can make an informed decision about where they would like to go.

 

[Medicine016]

Thank you for posting this and finally clearing this up. I've been reading a lot of misconceptions about Nova lately. It is great to hear from a current student.

 

[NotAMorningPerson]

I agree with you that people should still apply to Nova and consider it-- it is far from being a bad DO school. I applied and was accepted, but just decided not to attend (even though it's so close to home) because of some of these negative things I've heard. I would encourage others to do the same-- Nova is definitely still worth an app, especially if you're from this area. Once accepted, people can make an informed decision about where they would like to go.

Exactly! I was merely pointing out the facts so applicants can make an unbiased and informed decision to narrow down the school list they apply to, with Nova on the list or not.

Prior entering medical school I knew that Nova doesn't have the highest board score but it didn't matter to me. I knew my study strategy very well and I'm also doing well at Nova. I'm also pursuing an discounted MPH that's cheap(Nova gives DO students 75% off on their MPH tuition) and doing good researches related to my the field I'm interested in. If I never got a chance to apply to Nova I would have never gotten to know all these opportunity and made my decision to come here. There are only a few DO schools I would have gone over Nova.

p.s. your future school made it a very hard decision for me lol

Thank you for posting this and finally clearing this up. I've been reading a lot of misconceptions about Nova lately. It is great to hear from a current student.

No problem. Happy to answer any questions you guys have!

 

[nooneyouknow]

Exactly! I was merely pointing out the facts so applicants can make an unbiased and informed decision to narrow down the school list they apply to, with Nova on the list or not.

Prior entering medical school I knew that Nova doesn't have the highest board score but it didn't matter to me. I knew my study strategy very well and I'm also doing well at Nova. I'm also pursuing an discounted MPH that's cheap(Nova gives DO students 75% off on their MPH tuition) and doing good researches related to my the field I'm interested in. If I never got a chance to apply to Nova I would have never gotten to know all these opportunity and made my decision to come here. There are only a few DO schools I would have gone over Nova.

p.s. your future school made it a very hard decision for me lol



No problem. Happy to answer any questions you guys have!

There are also the rumors that Nova's expansion, i.e. MD school and new campus in clearwater will take away resources as well as start paving way for expansion similar to NYIT or VCOM
Do you know anything about that?
When I was there, there was never a clear answer given by faculty. Is the new dean really doing her best for Nova in FL?

 

[Fat_Albert]

^Would like to know that also since I'm about to apply this cycle

 

[fldoctorgirl]

p.s. your future school made it a very hard decision for me lol

Haha it was a hard decision for me too! Glad you're happy where you're at, though.

 

[Deecee2DO]

I understand where both schools of thought are coming from. Had no idea about the COMSAE discrepancy. I will say the match list for Nova last year seemed pretty solid. I was impressed.

 

[NotAMorningPerson]

There are also the rumors that Nova's expansion, i.e. MD school and new campus in clearwater will take away resources as well as start paving way for expansion similar to NYIT or VCOM
Do you know anything about that?
When I was there, there was never a clear answer given by faculty. Is the new dean really doing her best for Nova in FL?

^Would like to know that also since I'm about to apply this cycle

With the huge donation coming from Dr. Patel, there will be more opportunity overall but no one knows if the MD school will be taking over some of the resources we use. We also don't know how much of these new opportunity will be shared with us. With the expansion of an additional DO campus, it is also really hard to say if the clearwater site will be using some resources from us (e.g. clinical rotation spots). We do have a surplus of rotation spots now(hospitals are asking nova to give them more students) and just recently gained an addition affiliation with a hospital in Tampa with another 50 spots. There are lots of resources available at nova right now but no one knows how the expansion will play out for us.

 

[nooneyouknow]

With the huge donation coming from Dr. Patel, there will be more opportunity overall but no one knows if the MD school will be taking over some of the resources we use. We also don't know how much of these new opportunity will be shared with us. With the expansion of an additional DO campus, it is also really hard to say if the clearwater site will be using some resources from us (e.g. clinical rotation spots). We do have a surplus of rotation spots now(hospitals are asking nova to give them more students) and just recently gained an addition affiliation with a hospital in Tampa with another 50 spots. There are lots of resources available at nova right now but no one knows how the expansion will play out for us.

Which hospitals are asking for more students? I'm surprised. I would think they would try to get students from FAU or FIU

 

[fldoctorgirl]

@NotAMorningPerson Do you know what your 2018-2019 tuition will be yet? It hasn't been posted online, but I heard rumors that it was going up a significant chunk.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

I would think they would try to get students from FAU or FIU

FAU has a small class size and FIU operates mainly in hospitals further south. Nova would be the obvious place to look for more students since the class sizes are so big and most students would prefer to go to the "better" hospitals (like Broward).

 

[NotAMorningPerson]

Which hospitals are asking for more students? I'm surprised. I would think they would try to get students from FAU or FIU

Palmetto and Westside asked for more students this year. Westside was filled but I'm not sure if Palmetto's new quota was filled. Nova had to accommodate less popular rotation sites like Larkin to make sure some students ended up at every hospital. The new affiliated hospital in Tampa asked for 50 but only was able to get ~14 from Nova this year.

@NotAMorningPerson Do you know what your 2018-2019 tuition will be yet? It hasn't been posted online, but I heard rumors that it was going up a significant chunk.

It's not out yet but I can message you once I found out!