Nova Southeastern PsyD

[FuzzyMonkey]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Any current or future students for Nova's PsyD program please respond.

I have been accepted and would appreciate any and all information about the program, the South Florida area (mainly suggestions/recommendations for off-campus living,) and anything else you would like to share. Thank you in advance!🙂

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Please do a search on the forum, as NSU has been talked about quite a bit.

Unless something changed about the poor funding and class size (both Ph.D. & Psy.D.), it really is not a good choice. You can get good training and mentorship, but the cost has gotten out of control because they have crap for funding. 7-10 years ago it was doable to get TA + RA positions to cover some of the tuition, but now that won't put a dent in it.

 

[voyeurofthemind]

Please do a search on the forum, as NSU has been talked about quite a bit.

Unless something changed about the poor funding and class size (both Ph.D. & Psy.D.), it really is not a good choice. You can get good training and mentorship, but the cost has gotten out of control because they have crap for funding. 7-10 years ago it was doable to get TA + RA positions to cover some of the tuition, but now that won't put a dent in it.

Good lord, that's encouraging. I guess the truth is better than a lie though. I am trying to decide between Nova and 3 other programs at this time and it is not a clear choice -- that's for sure.

 

[O Gurl]

I am not a current trainee or NSU alum. My only insider info on the program is from this board and people I have met at conferences/interviews. In particular, I spoke with one of their students during internship interviews and she talked about the funding/expense issues (hence her choice of an Air Force internship route). She then talked about the cohort sizes and training opportunities in the area. As she explained it, there are good opportunities for both clinical and research training, but an NSU student has to really go above and beyond to stand out from the pack (get a good mentor's attention, secure the top practicum placements, etc.) which can be difficult when you have 60 people in your class alone. She broke it down like a typical bell curve in that there is that group that is a st. deviation or two above the pack (the rockstars who have great careers after NSU) and there is the group that is on the negative end (drop out, take forever to complete the program, fail to match, etc). Everyone else (the other 65-70%) are just in the middle. Some turn out OK, others not, all dealing with massive debt in a market that is not conducive to that sort of burden.

That being said, there are certainly worse options out there, but there are also much better ones (smaller class sizes and funding). I'd exhaust all other options if it were me.

 

[cognosco]

I'm a current student in the PhD program.

The class size for PsyD is around 20 per class.

Their is no funding, but I wouldn't let that discourage you. Borrow what you need, then pay it back. Learn the plethora or loan repayment options; it's really not as big of a deal as people on this forum sometimes make it out to be, especially if you specialize (e.g., forensic, neuropsych).

Nova is home to some of the most prestigious professors in the field, and excellent clinical and research training is available to all students who desire it.

If you come here and decide to hate statistics, research, and hard work (which is the case for some of the PsyD students, unfortunately), you will get exactly what you work for -- a lot of debt with limited knowledge to show for it. This is likely true at any program, however. I believe the pros heavily outweigh the cons. There are few other places you will find the vast amount of practicum opportunities, the diversity of client populations, and the sheer number of faculty resources available.

Any other questions?

 

[erg923]

I think sage finacial advice is never to borrow more than your starting salary is likley to be. This is what almost all professionals, financial advisers, and vocational counselors advocate. And I dont think thats possible at Nova.

 

[starsinnight]

Being familiar with NOVA, it is an excellent school and known in the area as one. While I am not a student there, I have regretted not applying at times.

But it is true, it is expensive and funding for most PsyD's isn't the best. As the poster said about borrowing more than the starting salary isn't wise - well nowadays it is common and most students have undergrad and masters debt before even starting a PsyD or PhD program (I know some with 100k under their belt) and if it is something you LOVE or personally can AFFORD, I'd recommend it anyday. Plus the starting pay for PsyDs and PhDs as pointed out here on many is quite bleak, so honestly is any unfunded program going to be cheaper than that in the 3-5 years it'll take? Probably not. But it'll atleast get you to the place you want to be in life, hopefully.

Back to NOVA, in the area and the field, word on the street it is known as a good quality program many students and locals aspire to go to. But the importance of funding is what you need to answer on your own depending on your own finances, student loans, and future debt stress, etc.

 

[ventstri]

I'm a current student in the PhD program.

The class size for PsyD is around 20 per class.

According to the admissions data here (http://cps.nova.edu/admissions/outcomes.html#psydphd), the incoming PsyD + PhD class has averaged 85 students per class for the last 7 years. Does that mean that most are PhD students? I would have thought the opposite.

 

[cognosco]

Forgive my ambiguity.

Nova typically accepts about 80 PsyD students per year. We take about 8 PhD students.

The first-year PsyD students tend to have about 20 students per professor, per class.

PhD students tend to have about 8 students per professor, per class.

The large number of PsyD students Nova admits annually is a common criticism. What the haters don't realize is that we about 50 full-time licensed psychologists to tend to all the students. I have not heard of another college in the country that has the professor diversity that we have here. Concerning practicum sites, we have over 60 different sites -- you can literally gain experience with whatever clinical population you can imagine. Thus, the learning and clinical experience is excellent here.

Concerning research, a study published in 2009 (if I recall correctly) identified Nova as #9 in the country for research output.

Concerning the above comment about borrowing money, my opinion is that borrowing money for education is among the highest-yield investments one can make. Further, the pay back process is not that difficult. You pay back a small percentage of your income every year until it's done. My advice is to focus on more important things.

 

[erg923]

Forgive my ambiguity.
Concerning the above comment about borrowing money, my opinion is that borrowing money for education is among the highest-yield investments one can make. Further, the pay back process is not that difficult. You pay back a small percentage of your income every year until it's done. My advice is to focus on more important things.

I think many reasonable people would argue that making wise financial choices when you are in such a pivotal period in your life is an "important thing"...and actually....a very, very "important thing." High-yield investment doesnt apply if your annual earnings dont ever come close to reaching what you initially borrowed for said education. The modal psychologist will top out at slightly over 110k. When you have 150-200k in debt, that borrowing has certainly NOT been a "high-yield investment", economically speaking.

As for the "haters" (do people over the age of 20 actually use that term? 😉), I think the biggest issue is the cohort size. Is there really a market demand for those types of numbers? There isnt at the internship level, we know that already.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

As for the "haters" (do people over the age of 20 actually use that term? 😉), I think the biggest issue is the cohort size. Is there really a market demand for those types of numbers? There isnt at the internship level, we know that already.

That seems to be the biggest issue with most people (myself included). The cost per credit has gone up substantially in the last decade (30%+ increase). Higher education has really gouged students in the past 8-10 years, so it isn't just NSU...but it is worth noting. Unfortunately cohort size and cost diminish an otherwise quality education.

 

[cognosco]

I encourage interested parties to review the payment options for paying back student loans prior to making assumptions. Student loans are, unfortunately, the reality for most students. Even students who get a full ride typically incur some debt in graduate school. That being said, thousands of individuals go through this process of graduating and paying back loans every year. There's no reason to assume you cannot do the same. The exception is if you go to a crappy school where the training is inadequate, where you do not qualify for an internship. These individuals may find themselves in situations that are quite unfortunate.
Nova, I am happy to report, is not in this category. We consistently match at rates higher than the national average.
I also disagree with the statement that psychologists are limited at $110,000 per year. This is a ridiculous claim, esp for those of us who specialze.

 

[docjohng]

As a Nova alum, let me just reiterate that tuition is expensive at the school; there's no putting lipstick on that pig. It's only gotten worse since I graduated from there 16 years ago. Few psychologists should consider any option where your loan amounts not only can get into the 6 digits, but *well* into the 6 digits (which is not uncommon at Nova).

While I stayed well below that, I had classmates -- 16 years ago -- who did dip into the 6 digit loan amounts. If we were doing that 16 years ago, and with tuition increases, you can only imagine what most Nova students are doing today. (Yes, I worked my ass off while in school, but it didn't pay for much.)

Having said all of that, you get what you pay for. And in this case, you're getting a very diverse and large faculty, excellent practicum opportunities, and a school that is integrated well within the local community. Nova is the provider of community mental health services for Broward county in Florida, making it a great opportunity to get deep experience with seriously mentally ill and very diverse populations.

In terms of living, I never lived on campus. My friends and I lived off campus, often in Plantation or Sunrise, two reasonably priced communities north of the campus (in Davie). There are so many rental communities, you have a wide choice of places to live.

With so many students in each year's class, too, it means you have a great social support system built-in. Make new friends, because these can be (and were for me!) some of the best years of your life!!

John

 

[erg923]

II also disagree with the statement that psychologists are limited at $110,000 per year. This is a ridiculous claim, esp for those of us who specialze.

I said modal. Thats what prospective students need to plan for, financially, I mean. Modal...the most likely outcome. Expecting to be the exception to the rule (ie., 250-300k/year) is both naive and not very sound financial planning.

Exactly how much are you expecting to be pulling in during your first 10 years after internship (when you will be paying back loans). Assuming you are not prescribing, if its more than 110K/year...then you are putting yourself on the far right of the salary bell curve my friend. Just be aware...

 

[O Gurl]

Having said all of that, you get what you pay for. And in this case, you're getting a very diverse and large faculty, excellent practicum opportunities, and a school that is integrated well within the local community. Nova is the provider of community mental health services for Broward county in Florida, making it a great opportunity to get deep experience with seriously mentally ill and very diverse populations.

I have to totally disagree. There are plenty of excellent training programs that are free or darn near free with tuition waivers and stipends. There is absolutely no need to go into massive debt to become a psychologist.

 

[O Gurl]

I encourage interested parties to review the payment options for paying back student loans prior to making assumptions. Student loans are, unfortunately, the reality for most students. Even students who get a full ride typically incur some debt in graduate school. That being said, thousands of individuals go through this process of graduating and paying back loans every year. There's no reason to assume you cannot do the same. The exception is if you go to a crappy school where the training is inadequate, where you do not qualify for an internship. These individuals may find themselves in situations that are quite unfortunate.
Nova, I am happy to report, is not in this category. We consistently match at rates higher than the national average.
I also disagree with the statement that psychologists are limited at $110,000 per year. This is a ridiculous claim, esp for those of us who specialze.

You are being very lax about the severity of excessive loans. Of course loans are not uncommon. I think it is the investment piece that is in question. Taking out $100K in loans when the median entry-level income for psychologists in many areas in $65K is absurd. Of those who break the 6 figure mark, it often takes a few years, they have to land spots with top employers (top tier academic med centers and big, academic VAs), or have to be rock stars in academia--again, it takes a while. I am well aware that NSU has some successful alumni, but it in no way has a history of success to warrant the price tag--esp. since programs with far better outcomes are nearly free and offer a more flexible degree.

 

[O Gurl]

O gurl, while I agree with you, private practitioners CAN make a lot of money, more than VA/Acad Med.

Apologies. That is true. Private practice, high end forensics, and military psychology can be very lucrative as well. My point was that breaking 6 figures out of the gate is not the norm, esp. if one is not from a pinnacle program with great connections. I just outright disagree with the idea that taking massive loans is OK, b/c one will secure a high paying job right out of fellowship and breeze through repayment.

 

[cognosco]

Perhaps I was misunderstood. I'm not suggesting that everyone is going to graduate and make 6 figures immediately. I think that is unlikely for most. However, income contingent repayment plans make things easily doable for all but the lowest paid psychologists.

 

[FuzzyMonkey]

Thanks to everyone for responding. I have heard nothing but positive remarks from my former professors and so wanted to get an updated insiders perspective. I have already accepted their offer and am mainly looking for advice about the program as well as suggestions for good areas/apt complexes to live in.

I am very aware of the loan debt issue, and of course it is a concern. I agree with everyone who is saying it is the best investment you can make and that payback is doable.

And in response to the fact that there have been other posts about Nova; I looked, but none of them were very recent and I wanted updated information. So thanks again everybody!

 

[O Gurl]

Fair enough. Best of luck in your future endeavors.

FOR ANY OTHER APPLICANTS OUT THERE:

The idea of massive student loan debt being a "great investment" is NOT true. Saddling yourself with repayments for > 30 years is not sound financial planning. None of us know what the future holds for us and sadly, out of the 70 (?) or 80 (?) students per year that NSU accepts and collects $150K from (apiece 😱) there are some who end up unable to pay it back--whether due to illness, loss of job, disability, etc. Banking on the option of income-based repayment is not fair to tax-payers. Basically, it leaves the gov't holding the tab for one's unnecessary, exorbitant, and irresponsible borrowing. For the life of me, I will never get how the gov't allows this, how the APA allows this (really who finds 70 competent future psychologists every year?🙄), or how students accept and feed into this when they will be the ones competing in a ridiculous overcrowded market in a few years.

 

[cognosco]

Congrads! I recommend that you choose to live relatively near the college (i.e., the Davie or Plantation area). The traffic here can really suck if you have to get on the highways.
Second, being in the PsyD program, you most likely will not be automatically assigned a mentor. My advice is to get to know the professors who study whatever it is you are interested in studying very soon upon your arrival. This will open many doors for you. Good luck!

 

[FuzzyMonkey]

Congrads! I recommend that you choose to live relatively near the college (i.e., the Davie or Plantation area). The traffic here can really suck if you have to get on the highways.
Second, being in the PsyD program, you most likely will not be automatically assigned a mentor. My advice is to get to know the professors who study whatever it is you are interested in studying very soon upon your arrival. This will open many doors for you. Good luck!

Thanks! Are you a current student at Nova? Phd or PsyD?

 

[erg923]

he said ph.d

 

[erg923]

The idea of massive student loan debt being a "great investment" is NOT true. Saddling yourself with repayments for > 30 years is not sound financial planning. None of us know what the future holds for us and sadly, out of the 70 (?) or 80 (?) students per year that NSU accepts and collects $150K from (apiece 😱) there are some who end up unable to pay it back--whether due to illness, loss of job, disability, etc. Banking on the option of income-based repayment is not fair to tax-payers. Basically, it leaves the gov't holding the tab for one's unnecessary, exorbitant, and irresponsible borrowing. For the life of me, I will never get how the gov't allows this, how the APA allows this (really who finds 70 competent future psychologists every year?🙄), or how students accept and feed into this when they will be the ones competing in a ridiculous overcrowded market in a few years.

Agree. My inner "Tea Partier" groans...

 

[erg923]

I made a joke in the previous post about how that attitude makes my inner tea partier groan. Although that is true, I think alot of this actually has to do with age, experience, and idealism more than anything else. The older we get, the more we realize that things generally do NOT work out in the nice, neat, linear plan we had when we were 22 or 23. Life happens people. It's also a time whern we have to start thinking about more than just ourselves. Namely, our spouse and our children… and our home (the ability to actually buy one that is). Believe me, in this economy, a mortgage, a sizable student loan payment, plus all the other necessities of life will be tough to juggle in the first 5 years.

Now, these are things I did not care so much about either when I was a coming out of undergrad (or even in my first year), but BELIEVE ME, now that I am interning and have a wife and home to protect/think about...my priorities and my perception of what's doable have shifted from idealistic, to pragmatic and realistic. Trust me, this will happen to YOU too...it just might be after you have made the poor investment. Thus, I would encourage everyone who agrees with cognosco's position to do a little bit of quick growing up, and to not stake your entire financial livelihood on everything working out for the best....OR by counting on passing on your debt to on the US taxpayer (somebodys paying for it, folks). I find the latter kinda selfish. But again, that's kinda a political bias.

 

[FuzzyMonkey]

I made a joke in the previous post about how that attitude makes my inner tea partier groan. Although that is true, I think alot of this actually has to do with age, experience, and idealism more than anything else. The older we get, the more we realize that things generally do NOT work out in the nice, neat, linear plan we had when we were 22 or 23. Life happens people. It’s also a time whern we have to start thinking about more than just ourselves. Namely, our spouse and our children… and our home (the ability to actually buy one that is). Believe me, in this economy, a mortgage, a sizable student loan payment, plus all the other necessities of life will be tough to juggle in the first 5 years.

Now, these are things I did not care so much about either when I was a coming out of undergrad (or even in my first year), but BELIEVE ME, now that I am interning and have a wife and home to protect/think about...my priorities and my perception of what’s doable have shifted from idealistic, to pragmatic and realistic. Trust me, this will happen to YOU too...it just might be after you have made the poor investment. Thus, I would encourage everyone who agrees with cognosco's position to do a little bit of quick growing up, and to not stake your entire financial livelihood on everything working out for the best....OR by counting on passing on your debt to on the US taxpayer (somebodys paying for it, folks). I find the latter kinda selfish. But again, that’s kinda a political bias.

And so your suggestion is? I'm not talking about extravagant borrowing, just the opposite. I plan to borrow as conservatively as possible, just borrowing what I need to pay for tuition to get the degree leading to the career I want. Even that will still result in significant debt. I like Nova for all the positive reasons mentioned here plus others. So I ask what was the point of your rant? What are you suggesting students that need loans do exactly?

 

[erg923]

And so your suggestion is? I'm not talking about extravagant borrowing, just the opposite. I plan to borrow as conservatively as possible, just borrowing what I need to pay for tuition to get the degree leading to the career I want. Even that will still result in significant debt. I like Nova for all the positive reasons mentioned here plus others. So I ask what was the point of your rant? What are you suggesting students that need loans do exactly?

I think Nova is decent program as well, academically. I was just pointing out the larger issue of programs charging more than is reasonable given the current, AVERAGE, market salary/earning potential.

I suppose my suggestion is, that people not attend schools that charge like that in the first place. Loans, even at properly supported (stipend plus tuition remission) traditional programs are still gonna be the norm these days. I understand that. My wife and I have loans too. But, there is a BIG difference in the financial burden of 30k debt vs 150K debt. At some schools, its gets upwards of 200k when one also has to borrow for living expenses. Can one manage 200k debt with a degree in clinical psych? Sure...you can. But it depends on what your total income is. If your making 70k (which you are likely to be within the first few years post doctorate) its gonna be awful rough. Those first few years following the doctorate is also a time in ones life where many people are shelling out quite a bit of money (eg., weddings, mortgage, house down payments, etc.). If one knows anything about the fluctuating policies, terms, and fine print of government programs, COUNTING on government loan forgiveness programs to rescue you from debt, or lessen your debt burden, seems quite a gamble to me...and kinda unfair to the taypayers.

In other words, saddling the taxpayers with your remaining debt so you can attend your dream school doesn't quite sit right with me. But again, as I mentioned before, that a personal political belief that I hold. However, I think the inherent logic of not paying for a program that is overpriced (considering modal earning potential) is something that most people should be able to understand.

 

[Phipps]

I think Nova is decent program as well, academically. I was just pointing out the larger issue of programs charging more than is reasonable given the current, AVERAGE, market salary/earning potential.

I suppose my suggestion is, that people not attend schools that charge like that in the first place. Loans, even at properly supported traditional programs are still gonna be the norm these days. I understand that. My wife and I have loans too. But, there is a BIG difference in the financial burden of 30k debt vs 150K debt. At some schools, its gets upwards of 200k when one also has to borrow for living expenses. Can one manage 200k debt with a degree in clinical psych? Sure...you can. But it depends on what your total income is. If your making 70k (which you are likely to be within the first few years post doctorate) its gonna be awful rough. Those first few years following the doctorate is also a time in ones life where many people are shelling out quite a bit of money (eg., weddings, mortgage, house down payments, etc.). If one knows anything about the fluctuating policies, terms, and fine print of government programs, COUNTING on government loan forgiveness programs to rescue you from debt, or lessen your debt burden, seems quite a gamble to me...and kinda unfair to the taypayers.

In other words, saddling the taxpayers with your remaining debt so you can attend your dream school doesn't quite sit right with me. But again, as I mentioned before, that a personal political belief that I hold. However, I think the inherent logic of not paying for a program that is overpriced (considering modal earning potential) is something that most people should be able to understand.

I am not attending Nova nor do I plan to but from following this thread, I am really curious about the total sum for attending? How many credit hours do you guys need and how much is one. GWU, a school I consider pricey, costs $1,083 per credit hour x83 credits. Is NOva even more expensive? What are we talking??

 

[FuzzyMonkey]

I am not attending Nova nor do I plan to but from following this thread, I am really curious about the total sum for attending? How many credit hours do you guys need and how much is one. GWU, a school I consider pricey, costs $1,083 per credit hour x83 credits. Is NOva even more expensive? What are we talking??

No, it's well under that, but still more expensive and less funded than some.

 

[cognosco]

Nova is about $850 per semester right now. The PhD requires around 120 hrs, and the PsyD slightly less.

Total tuition cost is slightly over 100K for the PhD.

 

[Phipps]

Nova is about $850 per semester right now. The PhD requires around 120 hrs, and the PsyD slightly less.

Total tuition cost is slightly over 100K for the PhD.

Thanks. Hmn. GWU's tuition is about $ 26,000 per year times 3 (trimester, 3 years). SO, it sounds like GW's Psy.D. is not as expensive as Nova's Psy.D. program (?). That would be amazing, considering that GWU is known as the (overall, all programs considered) second most expensive school in the Nation...

Also, they offer a generous so called Acceptance (With Award) for those who qualify/are the luckily ones -which can lower the overall tuition significantly!!!!

 

[aequitasveritas]

I think Nova is decent program as well, academically. I was just pointing out the larger issue of programs charging more than is reasonable given the current, AVERAGE, market salary/earning potential.

I suppose my suggestion is, that people not attend schools that charge like that in the first place. Loans, even at properly supported (stipend plus tuition remission) traditional programs are still gonna be the norm these days. I understand that. My wife and I have loans too. But, there is a BIG difference in the financial burden of 30k debt vs 150K debt. At some schools, its gets upwards of 200k when one also has to borrow for living expenses. Can one manage 200k debt with a degree in clinical psych? Sure...you can. But it depends on what your total income is. If your making 70k (which you are likely to be within the first few years post doctorate) its gonna be awful rough. Those first few years following the doctorate is also a time in ones life where many people are shelling out quite a bit of money (eg., weddings, mortgage, house down payments, etc.). If one knows anything about the fluctuating policies, terms, and fine print of government programs, COUNTING on government loan forgiveness programs to rescue you from debt, or lessen your debt burden, seems quite a gamble to me...and kinda unfair to the taypayers.

In other words, saddling the taxpayers with your remaining debt so you can attend your dream school doesn't quite sit right with me. But again, as I mentioned before, that a personal political belief that I hold. However, I think the inherent logic of not paying for a program that is overpriced (considering modal earning potential) is something that most people should be able to understand.

👍👍👍👍

 

[aequitasveritas]

I made a joke in the previous post about how that attitude makes my inner tea partier groan. Although that is true, I think alot of this actually has to do with age, experience, and idealism more than anything else. The older we get, the more we realize that things generally do NOT work out in the nice, neat, linear plan we had when we were 22 or 23. Life happens people. It’s also a time whern we have to start thinking about more than just ourselves. Namely, our spouse and our children… and our home (the ability to actually buy one that is). Believe me, in this economy, a mortgage, a sizable student loan payment, plus all the other necessities of life will be tough to juggle in the first 5 years.

Now, these are things I did not care so much about either when I was a coming out of undergrad (or even in my first year), but BELIEVE ME, now that I am interning and have a wife and home to protect/think about...my priorities and my perception of what’s doable have shifted from idealistic, to pragmatic and realistic. Trust me, this will happen to YOU too...it just might be after you have made the poor investment. Thus, I would encourage everyone who agrees with cognosco's position to do a little bit of quick growing up, and to not stake your entire financial livelihood on everything working out for the best....OR by counting on passing on your debt to on the US taxpayer (somebodys paying for it, folks). I find the latter kinda selfish. But again, that’s kinda a political bias.

Take it from someone who as been there...this is advice you need to take into account.
I've written the essential message here on these forms elsewhere and I hope it spreads and becomes an unspoken mantra of the undergrad to grad segue.

 

[FuzzyMonkey]

How or why did this thread turn into a discussion about loans? That was not even remotely my intent.

 

[erg923]

How or why did this thread turn into a discussion about loans? That was not even remotely my intent.

I think thats exactly the point. People dont tend to think or talk about the issue as much as it should be. As you can see, its a very important issue when talking about a programs overall quality and pros and cons.

 

[cognosco]

I'm not sure how we got on loans, but I think it is quite a statement to tell people they need to grow up -- the implicit assumption there is what? That those who differ from your perspective are immature?

I am not 22, I'm 28. I didn't just finish my undergrad -- I completed 4 years in the Marine Corps and a MS before starting a PhD. Does this make me grown according to your standards? I have not married yet... Perhaps this is the final piece that one needs to appreciate the wisdom you are sharing.

But I digress. I was accepted into funded programs as well as Nova. I chose to come here because after evaluation, I believe the training here is superb. According to some, this may make me delusional I suppose. I have comfort in knowing that whether I borrow 70K or 200K, my payments will be the same because the amount I pay is a percentage (10-15%) of my income. Is this a lot of money? Sure. Is it going to break me? Not at all. Even after I pay the loan, I will still have a hell of a lot more cash than I do now. Again, I encourage everyone to read about the loan repayment options before assuming the worst.

 

[erg923]

Nm

 

[O Gurl]

I hesitate to make this political. It is about right and wrong and even we liberals get that. Borrowing double the amount of your mid-career salary and then saying "it's ok because my payments will be the same" is egocentric and wrong. Ppl are all too willing to capitalize on a plan that lets them pay based on income and will "forgive" the rest if it isn't paid off in 35 years. That means someone gets stuck with the bill. How is that ok?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I hesitate to make this political. It is about right and wrong and even we liberals get that. Borrowing double the amount of your mid-career salary and then saying "it's ok because my payments will be the same" is egocentric and wrong. Ppl are all too willing to capitalize on a plan that lets them pay based on income and will "forgive" the rest if it isn't paid off in 35 years. That means someone gets stuck with the bill. How is that ok?

Fiscally responsible liberal...unpossible! 😀

Loans are a consideration because that money is coming from somewhere. The student loan market is the next bubble to burst, and it is a bit of a hot potato to see who gets stuck with the bill. The tuition of much of higher education is skyrocketing, and at some point people need to realize that just because they *can* get a loan, doesn't mean they *should*. Many homeowners who took exotic loans got stuck with the potato when the bottom fell out, and that is going to happen with students.

 

[FuzzyMonkey]

I'm not sure how we got on loans, but I think it is quite a statement to tell people they need to grow up -- the implicit assumption there is what? That those who differ from your perspective are immature?

I am not 22, I'm 28. I didn't just finish my undergrad -- I completed 4 years in the Marine Corps and a MS before starting a PhD. Does this make me grown according to your standards? I have not married yet... Perhaps this is the final piece that one needs to appreciate the wisdom you are sharing.

But I digress. I was accepted into funded programs as well as Nova. I chose to come here because after evaluation, I believe the training here is superb. According to some, this may make me delusional I suppose. I have comfort in knowing that whether I borrow 70K or 200K, my payments will be the same because the amount I pay is a percentage (10-15%) of my income. Is this a lot of money? Sure. Is it going to break me? Not at all. Even after I pay the loan, I will still have a hell of a lot more cash than I do now. Again, I encourage everyone to read about the loan repayment options before assuming the worst.

Thank you. I agree with everything you said. I too found it out of line to be told to "grow up." I am 27 and also not fresh out of undergrad - I have had a Master's and been working for nearly two years now in a clinical position.

 

[erg923]

Thank you. I agree with everything you said. I too found it out of line to be told to "grow up." I am 27 and also not fresh out of undergrad - I have had a Master's and been working for nearly two years now in a clinical position.

You can disagree with the presentation and verbage all you like, but the issues are there and are important. Its something many do not fully consider or understand until the choice has already been made. I think we simply want people to think about it carefully and not just put it in the back of their minds and/or have a glossed over picture of it. That is all. No malice. No ill will.

As far as the points the I and Ogurl made, you havent addressed then. Its more of a political issue though, I realize, so Im not going to compel you to spell out your belifs about fiscal policies/responsibilities and the US government. However, I think the points we are making (although opinion) are worth thinking deeply about. Who one passes the buck on to is...well...kinda important, IMHO. The money for loan forgiveness programs dont grow on trees. As Ogurl said, someone is paying your debts.

If the above paragraph is too personal for you to address, I think the other big issue here is how long will the current programs (eg., forgiveness, monthly repayment reductions) last? I suppose I don't trust the government as much as some here do, but I think we all have good reason to be skeptical of how much longer the government can afford to operate on such huge deficits. I dont think I'm paranoid to suggest that these programs you guys are counting on save your financial well beings could disappear at some point. No one thought Lehman Bros could possibly fail, no one that Fanny and Freddie could fail, right?

 

[ThirdLittleBird]

It is my understanding that tuition forgiveness programs were put in place to encourage individuals to work in less than desirable jobs. Perhaps those jobs would be easily filled in a sour economy, but not so much in a thriving one. It can also be said that our service to these populations could result in the increase in productive members of society. Were our services not in place, these individuals could prove to be a tax burden to the rest of society. In either case, it would seem that there is a tax burden.

My question: Where does the funding come from for fully-funded Ph.D. programs? I would have to think that somewhere along the way, someone's money is going toward funding a grad student's education and they may not necessarily be thrilled with that. For instance, does some (or all) of the money come from undergraduate tuition? I certainly would be less than thrilled to find this out, as I would rather have that money to fund my own graduate education.

This is just my inner chai tea partier coming out 😉

 

[erg923]

Student stipends come from all sorts of different funding streams. Some might be public wheeras other are private. I am certainly not against government supprted education when its reasonable and the pay off for society is likely to be tangible. Afterall, I am well aware of that my stipend is largely thanks to an NIMH grant...which gets much of it money from us taxpayers. What I dont support is the notion that the government pick up the tab on loans that were taken out because the schools tuition is out of line with the economic realities of the profession. In other words, they are picking up the tab on excessive debt.

Again, its the attitude of kicking back and relying (expecting) the government to take care of this for you that seems a little off here. It is also putting a WHOLE lot of faith in the longevity of old uncle sam's programs if you ask me...but see my above post for my skepticism there.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Another thing to consider with loan repayment is that you're heavily depending on the program to be around 15-17 years down the road, which is a not a sure thing.
As for funding for fully funded programs, it either comes from department money (teaching), some sort of university money--most likely endowed (fellowships), or research grants (research assistantships).

 

[cognosco]

This conversation is getting ridiculous, IMO. We went from talking about Nova, to discussing the difficulty of loan repayment, to.... Discussing the moral/ethical considerations of loan forgiveness programs?

How does this help anyone make informed decisions about where to go to graduate school? More specifically, how does one's political position in any way support the previous argument that going to school at Nova is too expensive and potential students should not attend? I don't really have anything else to say about it. Good luck everyone. If you don't go to school at Nova, please go to school somewhere.

 

[erg923]

Threads have a way of evolving. That is certainly not a phenomena that is unique to this forum, and I think the fact that this happens often brings about the discussion of important issues (like finances and the current student loan bubble) that tend to get squelched. If all we did was talk about purely psychology on the forum, this place would be boring. 😉

 

[Phipps]

Threads have a way of evolving. That is certainly not a phenomena that is unique to this forum, and I think the fact that this happens often brings about the discussion of important issues (like finances and the current student loan bubble) that often get squelched. If all we did was talk about purely psychology on the forum, this place would be boring. 😉

...

and I do believe that talking money and responding to phenomena evolving is a very important part of being/becoming psychological minded. Many individuals struggle financially and that leads to serious problems people have to deal with. Psychology student are no exception. If this was a thread for one-on-one counseling, I could talk directly with the original poster but the richness of the thread evolves were we all -hopefully in a respectful manner- add our wisdom, thoughts, etc. so...it is a good thing.

 

[aequitasveritas]

This conversation is getting ridiculous, IMO. We went from talking about Nova, to discussing the difficulty of loan repayment, to.... Discussing the moral/ethical considerations of loan forgiveness programs?

How does this help anyone make informed decisions about where to go to graduate school? More specifically, how does one's political position in any way support the previous argument that going to school at Nova is too expensive and potential students should not attend? I don't really have anything else to say about it. Good luck everyone. If you don't go to school at Nova, please go to school somewhere.

...it's called tolerance for ambiguity...get some

 

[docjohng]

Every dollar you spend can be spent as a necessity (food, shelter), luxury (music, computers), or an investment (retirement, real estate).

One can certainly justify putting your education into the "investment" category if it indeed does provide you with career opportunities that are better paying than you'd otherwise have access to.

It's a moot point and argument that there are some programs where that investment amount is much smaller than other programs. For a variety of reasons -- lots of times having nothing to do with actual academic performance or potential -- such positions aren't available to a significant minority (heck, maybe majority) of students.

Putting that into context of Nova, I think that if you can focus on keeping your debt amounts as low as possible and try to stay under the 6 figures, most people are able to swing the repayment amounts. I did and so did virtually everyone else I graduated with.

Could I have gotten the same education less expensively? Well, I did try, but I guess I just didn't measure up to their standards. Ultimately, the loss was theirs, not mine.

John

 

[FuzzyMonkey]

Every dollar you spend can be spent as a necessity (food, shelter), luxury (music, computers), or an investment (retirement, real estate).

One can certainly justify putting your education into the "investment" category if it indeed does provide you with career opportunities that are better paying than you'd otherwise have access to.

It's a moot point and argument that there are some programs where that investment amount is much smaller than other programs. For a variety of reasons -- lots of times having nothing to do with actual academic performance or potential -- such positions aren't available to a significant minority (heck, maybe majority) of students.

Putting that into context of Nova, I think that if you can focus on keeping your debt amounts as low as possible and try to stay under the 6 figures, most people are able to swing the repayment amounts. I did and so did virtually everyone else I graduated with.

Could I have gotten the same education less expensively? Well, I did try, but I guess I just didn't measure up to their standards. Ultimately, the loss was theirs, not mine.

John

Thank you for your insight and solid rational advice. Sounds like you are very happy with your choice and where it has gotten you. I wish you all the best! 🙂