Novel the tell

[Attending1985]

Anyone read about the novel called the tell by Amy griffin? It’s a book about a very successful woman who uncovers repressed memories of abuse with psychedelic assisted therapy. Haven’t read up on it lately but I thought repressed memories were debunked?

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[comp1]

No and it sounds like a depressing read. Repression is a common coping strategy and can be adaptive in some cases, so I wouldn't say the whole idea is debunked.

 

[R. Matey]

The process of uncovering previously forgotten experiences during the course of psychotherapy has largely been unsupported by science (here's a quick review). The issues are that psychotherapy may be suggestive form people to form false autobiographical memories and what is called "repression" may be just simply forgetting. There is a debate about whether a process of motivated forgetting of prior traumatic experience is what is meant by repression., but even then the evidence for such a construct is not strong.

 

[FatherPsychiatry]

Anyone read about the novel called the tell by Amy griffin? It’s a book about a very successful woman who uncovers repressed memories of abuse with psychedelic assisted therapy. Haven’t read up on it lately but I thought repressed memories were debunked?

I don't think the concept has been debunked entirely, but there were many instances where events were suggested to people and became "memories." See

Ramona false memory case - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

McMartin preschool trial - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I wouldn't be surprised if all these psychedelics that will inevitably be thrown around over the next few years will lead to a bunch of this stuff coming up.

 

[Stagg737]

Pop psychology topics are always hot gossip to be gobbled up by the masses. Playing into stereotypes and public opinion is much more entertaining and marketable to most than legitimate depictions of mental health problems and the course of the conditions.

 

[R. Matey]

I wouldn't be surprised if all these psychedelics that will inevitably be thrown around over the next few years will lead to a bunch of this stuff coming up.

I would think false memories would be more of a problem with psychedelics since suggestibility is kinda the point.

 

[Attending1985]

Pop psychology topics are always hot gossip to be gobbled up by the masses. Playing into stereotypes and public opinion is much more entertaining and marketable to most than legitimate depictions of mental health problems and the course of the conditions.

This is a true story actually

 

[Attending1985]

No and it sounds like a depressing read. Repression is a common coping strategy and can be adaptive in some cases, so I wouldn't say the whole idea is debunked.

I haven’t read it but Oprah is interviewing the author (it’s a memoir) so it becoming widely publicized

 

[splik]

I've not heard of the book. The recovered memory theory led to the memory wars of the 90s. Enough time has passed that these ideas are resurfacing again without the baggage that was attached to them from 30+ years ago.

Do people recall true memories of abuse that they weren't aware of before? Yes. It absolutely happens, but it's not common.

Do people repress memories of trauma? There is no evidence to support this (and in fairness, the recovered memory proponents never claimed the memories were repressed but that was Freud's original idea). There are likely other mechanisms that explain this.

Can people recall traumatic memories that never happened? Yes - I've seen this many times. It is often iatrogenic and more likely to occur in hysterical individuals. Because I offer hypnotherapy, some patients want to see me to specifically recover memories of childhood sexual abuse and I always decline. Some people seem to "want" to have an explanation for their problems or moral exculpation for their behavior. Sometimes in hypnosis, patients do recall forgotten trauma with hypnotic regression and I try to allow the patient to be curious about what is coming up without necessarily taking those memories at face value if there is no other supporting verification of this. It is also quite rare that patients will recall a traumatic memory, abreact, and all is well. That does happen but it is not the rule and more often a phantasy that patients have reinforced by TV and movie portrayals of therapy.

 

[Stagg737]

This is a true story actually

I'm full of obvious hot takes, lol.

 

[michaelrack]

I was in high school for much of the McMartin case, and in college during the "memory wars". I agree with Splik.

From a legal perspective, I do NOT think "recovered memories" should be given credence in a court of law.

There's so much PTSD out there, and so much abuse that is not forgotten/repressed. No reason for us psychiatrists to go on fishing expeditions.

When I look back at the clerical sexual abuse scandals and the repressed memory wars of the late 20th century; I see a society dealing with the issue of sexual abuse. Sexual abuse was previously kept hidden and quietly tolerated by society. But in the late 20th century the issue of sexual abuse came out into the open and could no longer be ignored. This led to new laws about mandated reporters etc.

I do not know if people can repress trauma- but if this is possible it is not a common phenomenon. Instead what happens in the case of severe trauma, especially when the victim is dependent on the traumatizer, is conscious suppression.

 

[splik]

From a legal perspective, I do NOT think "recovered memories" should be given credence in a court of law.

This is a very interesting debate that I've given a lot of thought about as it does come up in forensics a lot. There is usually a relatively short period in terms of statutes of limitations for civil or criminal action related to sexual abuse/assault. Many states did change their laws to allow for the clock to begin when the plaintiff knew or could have known about the abuse, rather than when it happened, which allowed for these cases to proceed long after the alleged abuse happened. This was one of the factors that allowed for many of the lawsuits against the catholic church and boy scouts to go forward (separately, some states set an additional window for claims to be filed). That was largely a positive thing.

Nowadays, you typically need to have additional supporting evidence to have a successful case. That said, this is America and anyone can sue for basically anything, and the idea is that the courts will hash it out. And of course, the accused alleged abusers can sue the therapists who helped "recover" the abuse etc.

The memory wars were very destructive and they really impacted the credibility of psychology. There were definitely people who were wrongly accused, but some people claimed that proponents of false memories were apologists for pedophilia etc so the reaction to this hysterical epidemic was more hysteria. Memory is of course very unreliable and prone to distortion and frank confabulation. This is more true in suggestible individuals and in certain contexts. The problem is almost all of the research on unreliability of memory is not about traumatic memories and you have people like Elizabeth Loftus (who did very important work on memory but it was not about trauma) who are trotted out by deplorables like Harvey Weinstein and Ghislaine Maxwell to rebut accusers claims of abuse and rape. They did a great profile in the New Yorker of Loftus and presented her as someone who had "repressed" her own childhood.

Rather than repression, "forgetting" childhood trauma may be explained by overgeneral memory, splitting based defenses like dissociation, and a dismissive attachment style. There are other theories, but we aren't talking about conscious suppression, which does occur but isn't relevant to the phenomena of people newly recalling memories of past trauma. Narcissistic patients may also deny a history of sexual abuse only to invoke it when it becomes convenient.

 

[Attending1985]

This is a very interesting debate that I've given a lot of thought about as it does come up in forensics a lot. There is usually a relatively short period in terms of statutes of limitations for civil or criminal action related to sexual abuse/assault. Many states did change their laws to allow for the clock to begin when the plaintiff knew or could have known about the abuse, rather than when it happened, which allowed for these cases to proceed long after the alleged abuse happened. This was one of the factors that allowed for many of the lawsuits against the catholic church and boy scouts to go forward (separately, some states set an additional window for claims to be filed). That was largely a positive thing.

Nowadays, you typically need to have additional supporting evidence to have a successful case. That said, this is America and anyone can sue for basically anything, and the idea is that the courts will hash it out. And of course, the accused alleged abusers can sue the therapists who helped "recover" the abuse etc.

The memory wars were very destructive and they really impacted the credibility of psychology. There were definitely people who were wrongly accused, but some people claimed that proponents of false memories were apologists for pedophilia etc so the reaction to this hysterical epidemic was more hysteria. Memory is of course very unreliable and prone to distortion and frank confabulation. This is more true in suggestible individuals and in certain contexts. The problem is almost all of the research on unreliability of memory is not about traumatic memories and you have people like Elizabeth Loftus (who did very important work on memory but it was not about trauma) who are trotted out by deplorables like Harvey Weinstein and Ghislaine Maxwell to rebut accusers claims of abuse and rape. They did a great profile in the New Yorker of Loftus and presented her as someone who had "repressed" her own childhood.

Rather than repression, "forgetting" childhood trauma may be explained by overgeneral memory, splitting based defenses like dissociation, and a dismissive attachment style. There are other theories, but we aren't talking about conscious suppression, which does occur but isn't relevant to the phenomena of people newly recalling memories of past trauma. Narcissistic patients may also deny a history of sexual abuse only to invoke

Will be interesting to see what the future holds for you in forensics as more and more people use psychedelic assisted therapy and more situations like this arise